You only thought leasing was bad now!!!

Discussion in 'LOCAL KANSAS TALK' started by center12, Aug 8, 2006.

  1. center12

    center12 New Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    State:
    KS
    Wildlife and Parks looks to public to help streamline regulations.

    By BRENT FRAZEE

    The Kansas City Star

    If you're one of many who think Kansas deer-hunting regulations are too
    complicated and confusing, take heart.

    Your world is about to become a whole lot simpler.

    That's the goal of a task force established by the Kansas Department of
    Wildlife and Parks, anyway.

    That 10-member group has spent much of the last year studying ways to
    streamline, simplify and improve the rules of the game when it comes to
    deer hunting. Now it is ready to hear from the public.

    The task force will put its recommendations to the test, getting
    feedback from hunters in a series of public meetings across the state in
    August.

    After that, the panel will take those opinions into consideration and
    draft final proposals for regulations changes that will be brought to
    the Kansas Wildlife and Parks Commission.

    That action then would be brought to the 2007 session of the Kansas
    Legislature, and it would probably be until the fall 2008 until hunters
    see changes.

    But Mike Miller, chairman of the task force, points out that action
    taken this year will go a long way toward determining the future of
    Kansas deer hunting.

    "When we started our deer-hunting program in 1965, we had the equivalent
    of a little one-room house," Miller said. "But as we grew, we kept
    adding on rooms and pretty soon we had a maze.

    "Our regulations became so complicated that even our staff members had a
    hard time comprehending them."

    Perhaps the most controversial proposal is one that would call for
    Wildlife and Parks to make available unlimited whitetail either-sex
    firearms permits in eastern Kansas - for residents and nonresidents
    alike.

    In the past, nonresidents were limited by a quota system. And
    transferable permits, in which outfitters provided deer tags for
    nonresident clients, turned commercial operations into big dollars.

    But much of that would be eliminated if the proposal is accepted and
    nonresident permits were more readily available. The task force thinks
    the move could simplify the permit process without adding significantly
    more hunters or having an impact on the resource.

    Other proposals include:

    * The number of deer-management units for whitetail either-sex permits
    would be reduced from 19 to two - a west unit and an east unit.

    * A whitetail either-sex, any-season permit would be established. That
    would allow the permit-holder to hunt in either the east or the west
    unit during any season (firearms, bow, etc.), provided he or she has the
    legal equipment.

    * An either-sex archery permit would be established. An unlimited number
    of these permits would be available to residents and up to 25 percent of
    what were sold to residents the previous year would be available to
    nonresidents.
     
  2. crazy

    crazy New Member

    Messages:
    2,090
    State:
    Kansas CIty, MO
    That's good news for me I guess. Being from missouri and family owning a farm in kansas.....
     

  3. center12

    center12 New Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    State:
    KS
    It is good news for you, unfortunately those of us that pay the bills in this state may have to compete with non-resident dollars for places to hunt in our own state. This is what happens when you allow the Legislature to make wildlife management decisions, thank god Jennison didn't get the Republican Governors nomination..............he's the piece of crap that started all that!!

    All this state has to offer is agriculture and it's turning totally corporate, so they are willing to "sell out" resident sportsmen and women in exchange for non-resident dollars. We pay for the State inept management practices, typical Kansas!!

    Be sure and get here early, won't be long before all the big bucks are shot or are behind high dollar lock and keys............then we'll have a deer herd like MO, over harvested and under aged.

    You really going to spend 300+ for a deer license???
     
  4. cook

    cook New Member

    Messages:
    1,494
    State:
    Plattsburg,Mo.(near K.C.)
    Sounds like a QDM problem,not a quota problem.

    I'll take all the does I can get.Haven't found a good way to cook the antlers,yet.
     
  5. center12

    center12 New Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    State:
    KS
    Actually, guns during the rut really hurt when it comes to growing LOTS of big bucks. Kansas hasn't allowed that YET:confused2:

    Been a whole lot of doe's taken since my last buck, I'm more than pleased with a doe. Now I do have friends and family that live for hunting a specific bruiser deer.
     
  6. crazy

    crazy New Member

    Messages:
    2,090
    State:
    Kansas CIty, MO
    Yes I already spent my $330 for a deer tag......
     
  7. center12

    center12 New Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    State:
    KS
    Good luck then. Think I'd add another 100 and go elk hunting, but that's just me:lol:
     
  8. Calvin

    Calvin New Member

    Messages:
    365
    State:
    Kansas
    You have it exactly right Charlie. Your buddy Jennison and Corbin from Towanda are the ones who started this rape of Kansas Sportsmen and OUR natural resources. When Mike Hayden became governor our interests were flushed down the toilet and the special interests of the wealthy non-residents became the top priority of the KDWP. Voices of dissent within the department were either buried in the bowels of Pratt or encouraged to find employment elsewhere.
    I was very fortunate to be the right age to enjoy the total historical experience of Kansas deer hunting. I killed my first deer at Tuttle Creek in 1965 and was able to enjoy the heyday of our Kansas deer herd prior to turning them over to the non resident outfitters. I was able to take advantage of the days when you could hunt almost anywhere if you were a neighbor and especially if you were a bow hunter. Unfortunately, I've also watched the marked decline in populations of trophy bucks in our state. This decline has coincided with two things in particular. First is the onslaught of outfitters and their greed and secondly is the popularity of television hunting shows. Now days I refuse to even watch the shows that have Kansas featured in them. If I put into words what I'd like to do to Bill Jordan the wormy coward would have me arrested. He probably has enough stroke in this state to get it done too.
    I feel bad for the state Conner and Tyler are going to inherit. Its our fault for allowing this to happen. The warning signs were all there but too many of us were too apathic to take a stand, myself included. Now, all we can do is tell the youngsters how it used to be and will never be again. Its disgusting and sad, but they DON"T have our best interests at heart. The only way it will ever turn around is if enough people go to the polls and vote out the politicians who care more about special interests than they do their own constituants.
     
  9. KansasKatter

    KansasKatter New Member

    Messages:
    807
    State:
    Wichita Kansas
    I don't hunt, haven't since HS. I just can't bring myself to kill animals that I have to look in the eye. I have nothing against it though, and enjoy hearing and reading hunting stories. I also know it is very necessary to keep the deer population in check.

    There is a ranch east of Douglass we used to coyote hunt when I was young. This ranch is like something that someone took from another part of the country and placed it in the middle of Kansas. It has huge canyons, large bluffs, and they are all full of timber and brush. We sat there one day while Ronnie Little and Terry Ketterman was driving one of the canyons with us at the end. I counted 320 deer come out of the end of the canyon! (Not one coyote by the way) I also saw the largest buck I have ever seen alive, Ed and I both were looking at him through binoculars, and at the same time we said 18 points! Perfect rack too. The ranch has not changed a bit, my brother still hunts it, he is one of the very few that are lucky enough to get to hunt. It is a family owned ranch, and as far as I know, and hope, they will keep it that way.

    Now, back to where I was going with this. Even as a non-hunter, I am still very concerned about what our government is doing to our state and wildlife management. My problem is it does not make the "typical" headlines we read every day. Calvin, where do voters get educated on these kinds of issues, where we can make an educated vote, rather than just taking a shot in the dark? It is not usually something that gets brought up in typical campaign talk and debates.
     
  10. center12

    center12 New Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    State:
    KS
    Jeff, I'll share my info and Calvin can share his when he get's on-line.

    Most of my info comes from the KWP&P home page. Most all of this stuff you as a citizen won't get to vote on, it is all handled in the House and the Senate. The KDW&P home page will have a list of all HB and SB that have been proposed(HB=House Bill), your means of influencing the vote is to contact your State Senator or Representative. Curtious e-mails stating your opinion on the matter is about the best way to do it, unless you know them personally. All my rep's have recieved input from myself concerning various matters. It also helps come general election time, I've voted against certain people because of their track record on wildlife issues. The stuff I posted above are the recommendation of an appointed committee, they are holding "town hall" style meetings across the state concerning their recomendations. These "town hall" dates are also on the KPW&P site, if this concerns you then you should find one close and voice your opinions. I have in the past, but the buriocratic BS has just about wore me down..............ie. I'm move to OK when I retire:big_smile: .
     
  11. warcraft1975

    warcraft1975 New Member

    Messages:
    1,190
    man is that really how much it costs?man if so i cant afford to go deer hunting(lol)
     
  12. Calvin

    Calvin New Member

    Messages:
    365
    State:
    Kansas
    LIke Charlie said Jeff, much of the information is available on the KDWP web page. But there are other sources that can enlighten us too. The problem is that the average voter (or sportsman) just doesn't make the effort to find out about these issues, much less try to do something about them.
    When we are talking politics, money talks. The reason the outfitters have such a death grip on our state is because they spent the money to buy the politicians. Organizations like the Kansas Bowhunters Associations screamed bloody murder for several years, trying to tell us what was going to happen. We ignored them until it was too late. I'm as guilty as anyone. I wrote my representatives and complained in person to Kenny King until he avoided me. I wish I had either joined the bowhunters in their fight or started a political group of my own to fight them. When Corbin ran for office one of his first actions was to introduce the legislation necessary to allow outfitters to lease land and operate in our state. I didn't even know where he stood on that issue until it was a done deal! When Hayden got in office the first thing he did was disband the Fish and Game Commission and turn it into the KDWP. The coffers of our license money were instantly raided and the money that historically was earmarked for wildlife was now dumped into the pot for roads and other entities not even remotely related to hunting.
    Of course we now know that Mike Hayden IS an outfitter! Most of these guys hide behind the guise of other issues they know we will support them on, keeping a low profile on their special interest issues.
    The fact is there are many times more ordinary sportsmen's votes like ours in the state than there are wealthy special interest votes. If we would only band together and let our desires be known at the voting booth it wouldn't be long until politicians got the hint. Any law can be recinded just as quickly as it was enacted. Study up on issues that are important and let your opinions be known to every politician in the state.
    By the way, that must be the Shaver ranch you mentioned.
     
  13. KansasKatter

    KansasKatter New Member

    Messages:
    807
    State:
    Wichita Kansas
    No quite, but it is almost as good, and big. I was talking about the Price Ranch, out closer to Lathem. I grew up with Justin, and Larry was Dad's banker and good friend for years, still is good friends. We used to go out and help them cut calves when I was young. We would spend one weekend doing their calves, then the next doing Ronnie's. Was a big party more than anything for the adults anyway. There is some good hunting and fishing both on both those ranches.

    Shalver's Ranch has THE best channel cat pond/lake in the state, no ifs ands, or buts about it. I also have a picture of a 17" crappie caught out there.
     
  14. crazy

    crazy New Member

    Messages:
    2,090
    State:
    Kansas CIty, MO
    Here we go the same ol sad story "all the big bucks are going to be shot by non-resident folks". “I can’t hunt where I use to because it’s leased out”. To bad that farmer wants some extra cash. Face it man to make money at farming these days you have to diversify. There’s nothing free nor handed out in this country. Then yet most of them people singing that crying tune don't do a damn thing for the wildlife. Then they just talk crap about there own conservation department about this and that. You dang right it's a corporate world. It cost money to do all the nice things Kansas does for its people. Most people are all talk and no action when it comes to that. I don't mind spending the money for a 330$ deer tag and something like 120$ for a fishing/hunting combo. So I guess what I'm trying to say is if you don't want to go up against the non-resident buy your own place to hunt. Other wise face it money is always going to talk and you are always going to have jealous people. From what I can tell on this thread is you have some people that sound like they want to put an Iron curtain around Kansas so no non native person can hunt. Get over it because there’s A LOT of small towns in Kansas that depend on an income from non-residents.
     
  15. center12

    center12 New Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    State:
    KS
    Ah yes, a resident questions deer tag allocations and their labeled as anti non-resident and selfish...........thanks for the sterotype!!

    I have absolutely no problem with non-resident hunters, if you read that in my posts than you are wrong(that seems to be the typical non-resident knee jerk reaction when a resident questions tag allocations). What I have a problem with is the selling out of our resources to special interest groups. These people are wanting to issue unlimited tags but Llyod Fox(head deer biologist) can't even tell you how many deer where killed in KS last year. These proposals aren't about deer management their about selling out a resource KS hunter sacrificed to make. There also about subsidizing a business........outfitting.

    I'm sorry but I'm not jealous nor do you have any idea what Calvin or I have done for the deer herd in OUR state...............fighting stupid proposals like this IS helping the KS deer herd. Do you think that a resident of a State should actually have to buy their own land in their own State so they will have a place to hunt??? Maybe we should pass legislation that states: in order to buy a tag a person must own land...........silly!! But that is what has been done with the transferable tag system.

    This state needs to get rid of the transferable tags and go purely to a draw/preference points system of tag allocation. That would make too much sense, but it wouldn't allow special interst groups to "buy" their way in.

    Actually all the big bucks aren't going to be shot by non-resident hunters, they will be locked away and accessable to only a chosen few..........did I mention we're 48th in the union with the amount of public land we have. Once priavate land is locked up in KS there really isn't any place else to go...........is it wrong to try a keep your home state from becoming a "hunting preserve"??? The amounts I pay in property tax, sales tax and mill levee's in THIS STATE should carry more weight than it does, but your 450$ is very important to someone.

    Good luck, have a great season.
     
  16. catfishcentral

    catfishcentral New Member

    Messages:
    1,497
    State:
    OK
    300.00 for a stinking buck tag for a resident in Kansas!?!?!!? I was upset when they rasied the tags to 20.00 in Oklahoma a few years ago. I don't think I could afford to hunt in Kansas ever again...I guess I'm too cheap.
     
  17. center12

    center12 New Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    State:
    KS
    Kansas resident tag is like 30.50$, the non-resident is 332$+ 70 from hunting license.

    It's a chunk, but I've spent that much to hunt other states so guess that's just the cost of the experience!! Yes I said experience...........I hardly ever kill anything:sad2: . hehe.
     
  18. Calvin

    Calvin New Member

    Messages:
    365
    State:
    Kansas
    Very well said Charlie. You covered every point I wanted to make in response to being called a "crybaby". I was ready to submit a response when lightning knocked off my electricity. After that I thought maybe somebody was trying to tell me it might be a good idea to sleep on it a night before responding. As you so politely pointed out, nobody suggested that we didn't want non residents to hunt in our state. My problem, our problem, is not with non resident hunters. It is with special interest outfitters who are raping our state's natural resources and putting very little back into the economy, contrary to what someone would have us believe.
    As far as me being a crybaby who doesn't like non residents, that should come as a surprise to my friends from Colorado, New York and Oklahoma who come up almost every year to hunt with me here in Kansas. I don't know anything about your business Crazy. But I'd probably wager that in the past forty years I have spent at least as much as you have on non resident hunting permits. Other than three years spent in the Army, I have rarely missed hunting in at least one western state every year since 1965. Each of these hunts cost me between $1500 and $6500 dollars. If you want to do the math, that adds up to a little bit of cash spent hunting out of state. Like Charlie, I'm not going to apologize for wanting the best for my state and my fellow sportsmen, who are the ones really responsible for growing a great deer herd. The Outfitters are latecomers who have contributed NOTHING to Kansas or to the Kansas deer herd. When they are through raping us and the herd is degraded to the status of some of our "neighbor's" states, they will slink away with their riches and leave the spoils for us.