When intelligent people do stupid things

Discussion in 'General Conversation' started by Ketch, Jan 10, 2008.

  1. Ketch

    Ketch New Member

    Messages:
    469
    State:
    Minnesota
    If sense was common everyone would have it.

    You know, you've heard sayings that somehow relate to the difference between book smarts and common sense. But sometimes the most educated and intelligent people that you know do the things that just don't make sense.

    I know a wonderfully intelligent veterninarian, no John, this isn't in reference to you. Just out of 8 years of gruelling college classes to stick an arm up the backside of a horse. You gotta love someone who will go over 100 thousand dollars in debt for a job like that. The vet is an extremely intelligent person and passed all tests with ease. Very book smart.

    A few days ago, a motorist struck a horse leaving it on the side of ther road in quite a bit of pain with absolutely no chance of recovery. I won't go into further detail because from what I hear the sight was quite horrid. The only choice left was to euthanize the animal. Now I am a horse owner as is the previously mentioned vet. I realize the gravity and difficulty of doing something like this, but no animal deserves to suffer while its moments are fading.

    Without going into much further detail, I will say that somehow the needle ended up in the horse and somehow the needle ended up in the vets hand, going through two fingers in the process. I am not entirely sure of the order that the two things happened, and am not sure it makes much difference. Some of the "fluid" passed into an animal it wasn't intended to go into (the vet).

    Now I am no doctor or a vet for that matter, but I do believe myself to be blessed with common sense. My first thought would be that since the fluid in question was adequate to finish a 1200 lbs animal and that the vet weighs well under 200 lbs. it would be in fact an issue of great concern. Obviously I am not in the know as the vet did not seem to think any medical attention was required.

    The next day there was an obvious line travelling up the vets arm originating from the puncture point and had almost reached the elbow. Again, common sense tells me that is no good, but again I guess I am not in the know.

    I do realize that infection is quite a concern and that the hospital would most likely administer some form of antibiotic. Obviously the vet felt the same way and instead used some horse antibiotics.

    Eventually, at family's request, the vet ended up going into the hospital to get things checked out. This resulted in about 10 hours of doctor's doctoring on the vet and they were very adamant that the vet should have been in much sooner and life was in fact put into great danger (I didn't need a degree to be able to tell the vet this).

    Perhaps John can help with this question since he would be more familiar with the chemicals in question and how they might effect a two legged animal.

    Is this just a case of someone thinking they know more than they do? Or is it just another example of intelligent people doing stupid things?
     
  2. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

    Messages:
    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    Chad, was this a woman Vet?

    I have had my arm in a lot of strange places, that includes a horses rectum. That is part of the job. The only common sense involved here is if it is a foaling mare, and you got your arm up somewhere else. If you don't anticipate a contraction, or can't get your arm moved quickly enough they will break the arm for you.

    The next instance of the horse euthanasia. This, I am still assuming it was a woman Vet, was a combination of accident and carelessness and stupidity. If it was a euthanasia cocktail , this woman Vet is lucky to be alive after a few moments there. That stuff is what they use to kill people who deserve it during executions. I always like to shoot them in the head if the circumstance allowed it. Safer that way with a thrashing broken legged or gut torn horse so you don't have to get close to the jugular vein.

    Veterinarians have a higher rate of suicide than the regular population. Dentists are higher. The way a Veterinarian will off himself is to insert a catheter in his arm, lay down on his surgery table and turn the bottle on. This is the stuff they use.

    All this stuff is common sense. The last part of your story indicates just plain unadulterated stupidity. More than likely that needle was filthy. Either contaminated at the scene or this woman Vet was using dirty needles to begin with. At the least a tetanus shot then and a course of antibiotic started. That having not been done, once there was an indication of a problem is should have been resolved immediately.

    When they passed out diplomas they forgot to give out brains too. Or she had a bunch of Democrats for teachers and they didn't tell her right from wrong.

    I was just assuming this was a woman here, because I have seen men do even stupider things, so I don't want you to think I am chauvinistic.

    John.
     

  3. Ketch

    Ketch New Member

    Messages:
    469
    State:
    Minnesota
    You are too wise John. Yes, this vet was of the female variety. I intentionally left that part out in order to make the decision the main point of the post as opposed to the sex of the vet.

    The reference to the backside, yeah.... What do you say about that. I know I would never choose a job that involved me sticking any appendage of mine up something's backside. I could do it if needed, but think it is not a career choice I would want. I love animals and do everything in my power to ensure all of our animals stay healthy. I am somewhere in between pouring diesel on a wound to clean it and having a vet out for a scratch. I know people both ways, but don't prescribe to either method exclusively.

    Yes, this was using the cocktail you mentioned. I myself prescribe more to using a bullet in these instances for the very reasons you mentioned. Safety being the primary one. Yes, this horse was thrashing and this is what caused the incident. The vet does not agree with the .44 caliber method. I don't know if location would normally help this decision if the vet would have agreed with this method of euthanasia since the incident happened on a major highway.

    I also don't know about the cleanliness of the needle. I do know of the possibility of contamination of such an instrument on a site like this is great, and am not privy to knowing whether the vet or the animal got the needle first or even if this would make a difference other than the fact of hopefully the cocktail was already administered and the chance of a full injection was avoided.

    I have often heard of the higher suicide rates among dentist, I had never heard of the vet having the same proclivity towards this end. It makes sense that these professions have access to the stuff that makes it easier, but the same could be said about gun owners then I am sure.

    I know the vet who instructed her through some of her schooling, and know the difference that years in the field have done. I definitely agree with his method of vet services not as an indication of gender but as to the methods used by the two. There's something about them old school vets. I couldn't really tell you what his political inclination is.

    Thanks for your response John, your opinion is always appreciated.
     
  4. Ketch

    Ketch New Member

    Messages:
    469
    State:
    Minnesota
    On a side note. The horse was struck by a vehicle, but what kind hasn't been determined since the driver obviously didn't find the need to stop. I have no idea of if witnesses saw what happened or not.

    Since I am a horse owner, I am very aware of the financial implications if a horse gets out and gets hit by a vehicle or causes any sort of harm. Perhaps we have someone out here who knows the law far better than I.

    Is is hit and run on an animal? Obviously, with the amount of injury the animal sustained, there must have been more than $500 in damage to the vehicle which in Minnesota is the requirement for having to inform authorities.

    Not that if the person had reported the incident that the outcome would have changed, but perhaps if they had reported it, the animal would have been eased of pain sooner.
     
  5. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

    Messages:
    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    Chad, an aside here so people don't think I am completely chauvinistic.

    I graduated in '69. Seventy eight classmates, had 3 women.

    Now the last x number of years graduating Veterinarians are almost 90% women.

    Most women go into small animal and horses. Very few go into large animal plumbing. Most men in horses go South to blooded horses or Southwest and West to working horses. That is where the money is.

    The situation you describe is one of inexperience and stubbornness. The only thing worse than a man being stubborn is a woman.

    Thus my deduction. As I said I have seen men do idiotic things too.

    Doc
     
  6. Ketch

    Ketch New Member

    Messages:
    469
    State:
    Minnesota
    Suprisingly, she is entirely large animals. Horse, cow, and a lot of alpacas. The horse doesn't suprise me, it seems to be the most glorious of the 4 legged friends to doctor on.

    I agree on the stubborness and inexperience, that is why I call out a different vet. Some things that are simple don't seem to be problems at all. No offense to your profession John, but a lot of doctoring comes from the ferrier these days. We have gotten ponies who have foundered before and our ferrier was more beneficial than our former vet was.
     
  7. Ketch

    Ketch New Member

    Messages:
    469
    State:
    Minnesota
    BTW John, I owe you some rep, too bad I am once again out.
     
  8. dookiechrist

    dookiechrist New Member

    Messages:
    94
    State:
    utah
    just reading the post, doest have to do with fishing but got my attention. my personal input...... dont know how long this female vet has been doin this , probably not long. i'm sure she'll learn to deal with the big animals..thats how we learn , by doing... over the years i've learned to handle 3 lb fish in my tank, 30 lb tom cat (best friend for 16 yrs.), 150 lb rottwieller, and even a couple 200 lb. drunken brothers...but when there's a track goin up your arm(seen it , bit by spider ,almost died/ almost lost my arm) an educated person would probably seek attention from someone who treats people..:crazy:
     
  9. dookiechrist

    dookiechrist New Member

    Messages:
    94
    State:
    utah
    btw, it seems as though i have some rep to give to the both of you.... catch a biggun'!!!!!!!
     
  10. Ketch

    Ketch New Member

    Messages:
    469
    State:
    Minnesota
    I have seen similar things happen in the past with ride alongs that have come to our farm with our regular vet. Definitely a begginner thing. Each time I have seen something that looked like they shouldn't have been doing it, our "seasoned" vet always pointed out what they were doing before they put themselves in harms way.

    Then again, vets have to do some uncomfortable things to a 1200 lb animal, I guess you are truly never out of harms way.

    I actually understand the fact of her getting punctured by the needle. I just can't figure out an educated person not realizing the possibility of a fatal outcome to the wound.