What type of fasteners did you use?

Discussion in 'Boat Modification Journal' started by smhmc6, Mar 6, 2009.

  1. smhmc6

    smhmc6 Member

    Messages:
    744
    State:
    Kansas
    I have a friend who's trying to make a rod rack. He doesn't have access to underneath the deck. So we are struggling to figure out what type of fasteners to use. I don't think selft tapping screws would be strong enough. I mean the gague on a tracker grizzly is what 0.1"? I think it will need a bolt of some kind. Just curious if anyone else has ran into this problem and what kind of fastener you ended up using? Thanks
     
  2. smhmc6

    smhmc6 Member

    Messages:
    744
    State:
    Kansas
    I guess I should be more clear. I meant to say that he doesn't have access to the underside of his deck so he can't reach in there and put the nuts on the bolts. I guess he could use a toggle bolt, but I don't think those would be strong enough either.... plus you would have to drill huge holes right?
     

  3. smhmc6

    smhmc6 Member

    Messages:
    744
    State:
    Kansas
    Thanks Kyle. Not quite what we had in mind. We are hoping to find something at like a home depot quickly tonight since we are goign to try to fish Saturday and Sunday. Has anybody used these?
    http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...indexId=cat600058&hasJS=true&_requestid=29668
    I think it would work for our application (if they even have any in stock there in KC), but I wonder if they are strong enough for a rod rack application. Thanks
     
  4. arkrivercatman

    arkrivercatman New Member

    Messages:
    4,472
    State:
    KS
    Id rather use a nutsert. They are probably alot stronger and allow for a flush mount.
    Id just get by for the weekend with some clickers or somethin and take my time on the rack.
    Thats what I would do though.:smile2:
     
  5. SkipEye

    SkipEye Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,525
    State:
    Winfield, MO
    Name:
    Darryl
    I agree with the others. Nut Inserts (sometimes called Rivet Nuts) are the only way to go here.

    In fact I just picked some up from Grainger this morning in 3/8-16 for a project I am doing this weekend.

    Do it right the first time!:wink: Especially if you are drilling holes!!!!!!
     
  6. tmramrod91

    tmramrod91 New Member

    Messages:
    192
    State:
    kansas
    I'm assuming you have to get the whole kit? Can these be found in any stores around KC or do they have to be ordered? I have no idea if theres a grainger store anywhere near me.
     
  7. SkipEye

    SkipEye Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,525
    State:
    Winfield, MO
    Name:
    Darryl
    A box of the 3/8-16's were like $21 and the quantity was 25, less than a buck a piece. Don't buy the tool, just buy the nose piece and use a bolt and some fender washers to draw the insert up tight.

    You could go alittle smaller like 5/16-18. Use a pilot point drill bit and you'll get a LOT cleaner (rounder) hole which is critical for the flush mount inserts. Make sure to use the EXACT size drill bit the insert calls out for for the thickness of material you are installing in, this is critical also.
     
  8. smhmc6

    smhmc6 Member

    Messages:
    744
    State:
    Kansas
    We really appreciate your help guys. You are right those inserts are the way to go. I know there are blind fasteners or one sided fasteners out there because I work in the aircraft industry... but $12/ fastener isn't really an option. Those nut inserts are a little more pricey but well worth it in strenght and not nearly as bad as I thought something like that would be. Thanks again.
     
  9. SkipEye

    SkipEye Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,525
    State:
    Winfield, MO
    Name:
    Darryl
    Oh one other important point!!!!!!

    Use aluminum inserts if you are mounting into an aluminum boat! Steel inserts would be bad.

    Also see if you have a FASTENAL store in your neighborhood if Grainger isn't in KC.
     
  10. arkrivercatman

    arkrivercatman New Member

    Messages:
    4,472
    State:
    KS
    Steve, we have a Grainger here in Wichita on South West St.
     
  11. smhmc6

    smhmc6 Member

    Messages:
    744
    State:
    Kansas
  12. smhmc6

    smhmc6 Member

    Messages:
    744
    State:
    Kansas
    Yeah I know, but its for Kevin's new boat so he's going to try and swing by there after he gets off work. I'm going to get off work try and leave town around 2:30 to help him install/fish all weekend, so no time for me to stop and get some.
     
  13. SkipEye

    SkipEye Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,525
    State:
    Winfield, MO
    Name:
    Darryl
    The nut inserts should only mount to the BOAT, it is nothing more than a threaded insert, not a rivet.

    Also, you are asking for trouble if your mounting base is galvanized metal in my opinion.

    Aluminum or stainless steel is the ONLY thing I will mount to my boat otherwise you are risking galvanic corrosion from the dissimiliar metals.

    I see folks mounting pressure treated wood to their boats all the time also. BAD MOVE, when they pull it off several years down the road the damage is already done and the Aluminum will be pitted etc.....

    Use the right materials, it is CHEAPER in the LONG RUN.

    Also, with aluminum inserts the only acceptable fastener will be stainless steel.
     
  14. smhmc6

    smhmc6 Member

    Messages:
    744
    State:
    Kansas
    Thanks for the advice. I don't know what I was thinking about when I was talking about the thicknesses, I see now that its just the thickness of the deck... and the carpet too I guess. So is the deck thickness going to be pretty much the hull thickness if I go on trackboats.com and check out the specs?

    Also I have to say that when you brought up galvanic corrosion, you brought back horrible memories of metallurgy class. I guess I should have payed better attention in that one:embarassed:.
     
  15. SkipEye

    SkipEye Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,525
    State:
    Winfield, MO
    Name:
    Darryl
    You are only concerned witht the hull thickness. Your fastener cannot go through carpet, just the aluminum deck. If you are inserting a nut insert into a carpeted deck you will need to pull the carpet back or cut out a small circle if it is glued.

    Best of luck. If your deck is in fact carpeted I suppose your galvanized metal would be ok. I thought you were mounting to an aluminum deck.
     
  16. kyleco55

    kyleco55 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,359
    State:
    Central In
    im not sure how much force your planning on using to remove the rods from the rack, but if not alot of force is applied, another alternative is to use some liquid nalis.. they have several different products for lots of different applications! hope this helps
     
  17. kyleco55

    kyleco55 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,359
    State:
    Central In
    wait i may have read your post wrong.. you looking to mount a storage rack? or like a drift style pole holder?

    if its just a storage rack, im sure the liquid nails would do the trick..
     
  18. Grimpuppy

    Grimpuppy New Member

    Messages:
    3,556
    State:
    Concordia, KS
    If you haven't come up with rivet nuts yet, you can also look for well nuts. They work on the same principle but they have a rubber jacket with metal threads inside. Instead of using a gun to crimp them to the deck you just tighten the bolt and the rubber compresses making it tight. I prefer rivet nuts and have more 30 of them around my boat. But I have the gun and a lot of them because I use them on the race car also. The well nut is an alternative if you can't find rivet nuts. Since they are rubber, you don't have to worry about corrosion either.
     
  19. smhmc6

    smhmc6 Member

    Messages:
    744
    State:
    Kansas
    Thanks again for the help. We got it all put together and ready to fish Saturday... we were up till like 4 a.m. assembling it though, haha. He went to get the rivet nuts at graingers after he got off work friday and found out that they don't sell to the public, but they were nice enough to sell to him once as a courtesy. They didn't have exactly what you guys were talking about where the nut draws itself up against the underside of the deck, but they sold him these nuts you screw down with an allen wrench and then put your bolt through. Probably not as solid as the other kind, but definately good enough. I wish I had pictures to share, but we didn't think about it and my camera battery was run down anyway. He may post some pictures later if he doesn't get too busy and forget about it.

    We ended up fabricating L brackets out of 2" aluminum and bolted that to 1.5" square tubing that we cut about 6" long. We fastened that base to the deck using those nuts. Then we used 1" square tubing about 18" long for our risers. We slid the 1" square tubing into the 1.5" square tubing and drilled a hole through all of it so we could put a shear pin through and the rod rack could be removable (he wants to be able to put a duck blind on when waterfowl season rolls around). The 1" fit into the 1.5" real nicely so it doesn't rattle around. Then for our cross beam we used 1" aluminum L channel about 72" long and bolted that to our risers through the vertical flanges of the L channel. We drilled holes into the cross beam on the horizontal flanges to fit driftmasters in. Its pretty solid, the only mistake we made was to use aluminum for our cross beam. It just isn't stiff enough, and being 72" long the torsion of the rods in the rod holder made all the rods bounce up and down and all around when we got bits or whatever. He's going to fix that soon by using steel L channel instead though. Overall, it met every requirement he wanted... sturdy (once he changes the cross beam) and removable for duck season. Thanks again for the help on the rivet nuts... couldn't have done it with out the help. Really, on rod racks the sky is the limit on creativity... but we were stuck on how to attach it to the deck. If you can't get a sturdy mount then its pointless, once we figured that out with your help, ideas just started coming much easier.