We've been had!

Discussion in 'Guns - Blackpowder' started by flathead willie, Nov 28, 2009.

  1. flathead willie

    flathead willie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,241
    State:
    Virginia
    This may wind up in the High Intensity area, but I have to vent. I got roped into going shopping with the wife the other day, Black Friday. I thought there would be some good deals out there from what I'd heard. I've been checking prices on some of the things I want lately so I had a good idea of what they cost. It soon became obvious that what most places had done was to jack the prices up and then offer "discounts" that were as high or higher then the normal price. Stores had a few items on sale to lure shoppers in, but then you get hit with high prices on everything else.

    Now, to the sore spot! We all heard all the talk before the last election about how Obama was going to take away our guns and ammo, right? (They said the same thing when Clinton was running.) Well, here it is a year later and there has been no real attempt to do anything like that. However, those scare tactics did nothing but jack up the prices of guns and ammo way past the normal inflation rate, and they are not about to come down. That was just a scam. That tactic screwed the very people that were the most worried about it, along with everyone else.

    Let me give you some first hand examples. I shoot 30-30s and 30-06s because they are versatile and cheap to shoot. I have been buying ammo at places like Wal Mart for years, when I don't have the time to reload my own. I've been getting 180 grain Remington Core-Lokt 30-30s for $8.87 to $9.97 for a box of 20 for years, up to 2 years ago. I still have four boxes with the price tags on them. I've been paying $9.97 to $10.97 for the same thing in 30-06, while laughing at my buddy who has been paying $42.00 for a box of 7mm Weatherby Magnum.

    We went to Wal Mart yesterday and I felt like going off on someone! The same Remington 30-06 shells are now $23.99 a box, more than double what they were a year ago. They had Winchester 30-30 shells for $28.99 for 20 rounds!!! WHAT???? I have two boxes of CCI, a box of Remington, and one box of CMC .45ACP, 50 rounds each. The price tag on them says $11.99 and $12.49. A non-shooting friend thought he was doing me a favor buy buying me a box a while back. He paid $33.99 for a box of 25 rounds. I couldn't believe it. Do the math; that's more than $11.00 PER MAGAZINE. What the hell?

    Let me point out that nether Obama, nor the Democrats, did this to us. It was done by the fear mongering tactics used to sway public opinion during elections. It was done by the same people, the same lobbyists, the same companies, and the same party that spread this kind of fear. It didn't benefit ANYONE except the huge corporations that were already making huge profits; The chemical companies like DuPont, the largest ammo sellers like Wal Mart, and the largest gun sellers like Wal Mart and Dicks Sporting Goods. Follow the money trail. It is all there in black and white. Look at the senators and congressmen that receive the most lobby money from these people. It's time to wise up, people. We are being taken for a ride by the very people that claim to be protecting our rights and our sport. So you think there is a huge effort to take our guns? Here is an eye opening statistic: "Measured in dollars, in 2007, gun rights political spending on lobbying totaled $1,959,407 versus gun control spending of $60,800."

    If the "antis" wanted to take your guns, don't you think they would spend more than $61,000 to do it? All that talk last year was just another excuse to jack up prices. I'll bet you that, even if the next president is a Republican, the prices WILL NOT be coming down. We've been had!!

    Thanks for letting me vent. I have to go set up my reloading bench now!
     
  2. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    That comes after healthcare reform and tax and cap. They just haven't got to that yet. Truth be told they probally never will. The administration is taking such a beating from the American people now. I doubt they want to embrace gun legislation now unless they can bury bits and pieces in other bills.
     

  3. Welder

    Welder New Member

    Messages:
    4,834
    State:
    Missouri
    Lead production is down @ doe runn in MO and other places. New EPA standards and stuff combined with politacal crap has drove ammo up hard.
    I see the day soon when a box of 180 grain 30-06 shells will cost $5o bucks

    Just my take --we had it easy for a long time. Good deals can still be found look around snap em up now. Got my 06 ammo for $16.45 for box of 20 got 2 boxs gona buy the mom and pop store out come tax time I should have ammo for the next 10 years
     
  4. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    Dicks had some good ammo prices a few weeks ago.
    They had 9mm bulk for half the price of 9mm bulk a coworker bought on line the week before.
    30/30 ammo was around 13 a box.
    Don't forget metal prices skyrocketed this year including brass.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2009
  5. plainsman

    plainsman New Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    7,187
    State:
    minnesota
    I bought my ammo a few years ago, 16-18 bucks a box of 20. I was gonna buy more, but price is too high. All ammo will be serialized soon, that cost money too. I reckon they just wanna make it expensive, so folks don't wanna do it no more. The criminals just consider it overhead anyway. Obama was the greatest gun salesman we ever had. Ammo been hard to come by for years tho, at least the last 3. Folks been buying 9mm and 45 ACP ammo by the case. I know a guy who bought a .223 and 6000 rounds. I asked why, he just wanted to get it before it became illegal to own one. Maybe he thinking it will be needed for something important someday.

    I've heard all kinds of reasons, not sure I believe anyone no more.
     
  6. 223reload

    223reload New Member

    Messages:
    10,798
    State:
    Oklahoma
    Billie,I know the reloading end costs more too,the last time I bought my pet load bullets for my .223,52 gr hp from speer ,they were 9.00/100,now they run around 17-20$/100
     
  7. seokfisherman

    seokfisherman Member

    Messages:
    442
    State:
    Oklahoma
    Richard I bought powder for the first time in a few years and almost had a heart attack. Bullets and primers also went up. Glad I have plenty of brass!
     
  8. Kip Brandel

    Kip Brandel New Member

    Messages:
    502
    State:
    Glasgow, Kentuc
    I get wheel weights to make fishing sinkers. Well for the last couple of years it was hard to get. The tire places that usually gave it away were getting 50-75 cents a pound and more for the weights at the scrap dealers. Recently it has dropped and they are only getting a few $ for a 5 gallon bucket full and they let me have 2 buckets full IF I replaced the buckets. So the buckets are worth more to them now.
     
  9. BubbaCat

    BubbaCat New Member

    Messages:
    5,868
    State:
    Arizona
    gun shows are a good source ammo and reloading supplys if you are not to picky, also you are buying from a neighbor.:wink:
     
  10. Paraguayguy

    Paraguayguy New Member

    Messages:
    1,650
    State:
    Virginia
    Bullets and all their components are a commodity like beans or corn. Wars, Paranoia, the smoking economy effected the prices. (UP). Things will cool and the prices will come down just like beans or corn. Who remembers when Beans hit $13.00 in the early eighties. Banks lined up to loan farmers money to buy land that tripled in value as if beans would continue to go up or at the least stay at $13.00. What happened?. three years later beans drifted down to $4.00. The land the beans grew on fell in value right along with the beans. Farmers went bust trying to make their notes and the banks that loaned them the money went bust also.

    All we have to do is not buy up everything in sight. I believe in competion. Bullet manufacturing is an old mature industry. Prices went up because their components went up. If the margins are huge (which I think not), others will enter in the fray to grab the huge profits,(I don't think exist), driving prices down.

    If you are a rabid, plinker, shooter, bench rester, ouch it hurts!, but if you are like me that only shoots to sight in a scope and then to kill game,,,,,,bullet cost is the most insignificant part of the cost of going hunting.

    In my business in South America In 1999 I used to pay $4.85 a box for bullets and sell them for $10.00 to my customers who shot 500-1000 rounds a day. I buy up to 500,000-750,000 shells a year depending on how many customers and how many birds we have each year.

    I always made more off the bullet sales than the hunt which in 1999 cost $600 a day per person. I had to have 4 hunters in a group to break even on hunt costs but always made good money on the bullets.

    Now I charge $900 a day and I still need a group of four hunters to break even on hunt costs. My cost for bullets is now $12.50 per box wholesale buying 500,000-750,000 shells a year. I sell them for $14.00 a box and my customers complain. To make a lousey $1.50 a box I have to deal with a Gov't agency every time I move more that 1000 rounds on the highway. I have to haul them 300-400 miles down crappy dirt roads, Store them at my expense in a secure warehouse. Do all the accounting for every bullet to make sure I get paid correctly and the Gov't sees that I use them for hunting and not selling them over the border at night for $30 a box to the Brazillian drug cartels.

    I have my fingers crossed that prices will go down so I can get my $5.00margins back.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009
  11. flathead willie

    flathead willie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,241
    State:
    Virginia
    "Prices went up because their components went up."

    I don't believe that for a minute. The prices of metal and powder didn't triple in a years time. If it had, the prices on muzzle loading bullets would have gone up accordingly, but they are just about the same as they were last year. I buy hundreds of pounds of nails, screws, flashing, guttering, tools, and pipe. The prices on them haven't gone up much at all. These things are made of the same components that bullets are made of, but they haven't gone up more than a few percent. The price of ammo has gone up about 150% to 300% in the last year. That's political!
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009
  12. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    You aint bought alot of pipe.
    If I had bothered to sit in Lowes one afternoon I could have watched the price of a stick of 2" rigid go from 17 bucks a stick to 52 bucks a stick.
    It's all gone up.
    A roll of 12/2 romex hit 120 bucks.
    I remember buying it for 16 a roll. Used to buy 14 for 12-14 a roll all day long.

    Looked at roof tin lately?
    Lowes had it the other day. 8 foot sheet of 5v for 20 bucks on sale.
    It's an 8 dollar piece of tin. 10 at the most.
     
  13. plainsman

    plainsman New Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    7,187
    State:
    minnesota
    Few years ago we had forest fires, 1/2" plywood went up from 10 bucks to 21 overnight. Scrap No.1 copper was fetchin a pretty good price too. Roofing steel went up pretty good, scrap iron prices have dropped now that some of the building boom has slowed. Aluminum is down too. When the price gets too high, the people who don't need to buy at that time will wait, the price comes down. Just wait, labor costs will go up too, they won't come down. Thats political, caused by 987 billion money printing stimulus, and new costs associated by govt regs. CA is a good example of politics causing prices to go up. CA is one of the most difficult/costly states to do business in, and they wonder why people are leaving the state and business is leaving the state. The gov needs money to run and do its programs, so it taxes people and stuff, just like interest on credit cards, that extra tax percent and extra credit card interest is a percentage of money that don't go back into the economy. If we want the gov to hold our hand we gotta pay for it, and as businesses get bigger it cost more to run em and there is less competition so prices go up.
     
  14. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    It has been reported on various news sources for the last few years that the military forces was running out of small arms ammunition and the factories were working an increased workload to supply the military needs. Now, where do you think sportsmen are gonna fit in that pecking order. I'd say be glad you can get some ammunition. I have about 45 rounds left from a box of .357 Magnums I bought four or five years ago. No need to shoot much. I heard a lot of "bangs" while in the service, and the only ones I would want to hear now is those directed at someone breaking and entering. Target shooting is just too darn expensive.
     
  15. flathead willie

    flathead willie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,241
    State:
    Virginia
    A lot of our military small arms ammo is now being made in Israel and Tiawan, not in the US.

    "When Congressman Abercrombie told Gen. Izzo that he had "never heard of anything so goddamned stupid" as buying ammo manufactured in Israel for use by U.S. military forces in killing Muslims, he might well have weighed his words more carefully, because at least one thing has been manifestly even stupider: invading Iraq in the first place."

    "US forces have fired so many bullets in Iraq and Afghanistan - an estimated 250,000 for every insurgent killed - that American ammunition-makers cannot keep up with demand. As a result the US is having to import supplies from Israel."


    That's what happens when you don't protect American manufacturing plants. As bad as we need jobs, you would think they would be building more ammo plants here.
     
  16. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    Who is they?
    Maybe "they" don't want to build more ammunition plants for something that will obviously be a short term need.
     
  17. Salthart

    Salthart New Member

    Messages:
    1,264
    State:
    North Carolina

    I am surprized Willie, That you don't see the answer in your own words. Who is in power, What is their agenda on weapons/ammo etc ?

    Do you think taking away your arms is something they will just step up and do ? Not yet anyway. They will do just as they are doing with cigarettes.

    Think about it for a minute. The power is with the money and the insurance companies want smoking stopped. Did they push for laws outlawing cigarettes ? No. They pushed a load of horse crap called second hand smoke.
    Did you ever as a boy walk into a pool room where the smoke hung thick right about eye level like a cloud ? How long did you have to stay there before you were puking your guts out and drunk on your butt ? Didn't happen ? Well wait a minute ! What about second hand smoking ? If its what we are told it is, then this very thing would happen ! But it don't

    Along the same lines. Every wino and homeless person who couldn't buy a cigarette would be packed in pool rooms etc so they could breath the second hand smoke and not have withdrawls.

    Along another line. I wish I could say for sure but I simply can not. But I heard with my own ears a report given by a major school that said matter of factly that second hand smoke was bull... I wish I had written it down but at the time, it did not seem important. But I am thinking it was something like the University of Cambridge.

    So this bull is pushed and pushed and soon, the states have the cigarette makers in court. The judgement is in the billions. Money that smokers THEMSELVES will pay for the rest of their lives. Money that was supposed to be for helping us quit.. They haven't spent a dime for me as far as I can tell..

    But my smokes have gone from 12 bucks a carton to 30.. 45 if you smoke name brands. So who was hurt ? And smoking is a silly thing to get upset about ? How many tree huggers have to stand up and scream for your guns till you understand they think hunting and guns are silly ? At best.

    Its simple bait and switch. Its screaming about weapons of mass destruction while the ashes of the twin towers and a handfull of airplanes still smolder. Leaving out the parts like Iraq running out UN inspectors.....

    They had one battle cry and it made no difference to any of the "Left" That it was horse crap. They jumped on the bandwagon and look where it got us. Look what it did to a man who never asked to have terrorists attack the USA on his watch but tried very hard to make sure it never happened again. Now whats happening ? We have laws in effect saying we can't even fight if they do it again or we go to jail for hate crimes !

    If you want to keep your guns as well as your FREEDOM, work to see peoples eyes opened so that all these liberals are voted out of office. !

    Do the same for any so called conservative that gives up the least of your personal freedoms for whatever reason. Thats my opinion anyway.
     
  18. floundahman

    floundahman New Member

    Messages:
    564
    State:
    North Caro
    Billie, It must be those environment hating conservatives that drove the price of sinkers up too,after all the liberals are going to take away our lead sinkers; or maybe the price of asphalt roofing shingles since the liberals are going to force us to make eco-friendly thatch roofs...............c'mon the Walmart here hasn't had 22 caliber long rifle rounds for over a year. They stopped selling guns altogether. When I asked why, they claimed that it was due to prohibitive regulations. I'm sure it wasn't the conservatives that emptied our Walmart of guns. We've been had? Maybe "we" have!
     
  19. Paraguayguy

    Paraguayguy New Member

    Messages:
    1,650
    State:
    Virginia
    Walmart sells guns in Richmond VA and Ammo also. Depends on the store. Oh Wally has retailing down better than any retailer on the planet. Every square inch of their store has to produce. If something doesn't sell,,,out it goes. If it sells and has a good turnover ,,,it stays and gets more space.

    I still say bullets are all supply and demand. Billie,,I don't know how your Roanoke prices have stayed low. I spoke to a fishing buddy, (owner of a roofing Company) about striper fishing this Wednesday and asked him about nails and copper gutters, and metal roofing and he told me his prices have tripled but are coming back down with the reccesion.

    Supply will catch up and prices will come down.

    Cigarette taxes are absolutely about the money and no one wants you to quit. Junkie is going to buy his smokes and feed the tax coffers. It helps states by taxing the junkies and not having to raise tax rates on everybody else which is a sure one way ticket out of office.:smile2:

    I was one of those cigarette junkies until I quit a few years ago. I threw $7 a day in a coffee can when I quit and bought a new encore and a benelli super black eagle II from my first years savings.
     
  20. steveg442

    steveg442 New Member

    Messages:
    225
    State:
    missouri
    People have also created the prices by panic buying when they see their favorite ammo in stock. I use to buy a brick of .22 ammo for 9.99 anytime. I was at bass pro and the first time they were out the second time I thought I better buy or do without. I paid 19.99 for the same brick a few weeks ago. My son got me into reloading this year and I am looking forward to stocking up through the winter.