We the People.

Discussion in 'General Conversation' started by Salthart, Dec 21, 2009.

  1. Salthart

    Salthart New Member

    Messages:
    1,264
    State:
    North Carolina
    I was not sure where to post this. I have an idea that the admins may want to move it and that is their right. But I hope it hangs out here for a while.
    I don't understand what makes some people think as they do. I can't see it. Now if we sit down with a chess board and start making moves, Pretty soon our pieces with come in contact and the results of our moves will come to light.
    You can come out of the gate going for the kill or you can set up a defence and hope to wear down the other side and you can even just trade off pieces like in checkers and depend on your end game to finish up.
    There are openings that have worked for hundreds of years and yet, When playing someone who knows those openings, THey will make moves to force you off your line of play. Such as 3 move checkmate. THey open with kings pawn and follow with the kings bishop pawn to attack the other sides kings bishop's pawn and if you are watching, You are ready for the advance of the queen next move and a simple move one space forward of the attacked pawn blocks the attack.
    If you do not make a counter move, I don't care how good you are, You have just lost the game.

    I understand that many of you are not chess players and I am a weak one. But I believe you can understand what I am saying. That you can follow someones moves and figure out where he is going and what he is doing. And in this way be prepaired for it. The analogy can work be it catfishing or deer hunting etc.

    So we take this line of thinking and apply it to whats going on in Washington DC. Now you hear people say that we are this or that we are that but the simple fact is that the USA is a Republic. That is to say that we do NOT have a direct say in how this country is run. We elect people to congres and senate and THEY run the country. THEY put the president in office. And that President in turn puts the high court in office and no one can touch them.......Not even another President. Think about that.

    So the one thing we can do is tell those in the house and senate how we feel and if they don't follow our wishes VOTE THEM OUT !

    So Lets take a look at this "Healthcare" deal. If you can say it will do some good and be SURE about it, Please feel free to do so. Is there problems with the system that is in place ? Sure. Drug companies make billions selling drugs that end up killing people. But we have the Food and drug admin.. Oh yea.. Thats the government and they ALLOWED the drug companies to sell said drugs. Hospitals charge 5 bucks each for an asprin that they likely pay 5 bucks a thousand for.Again, We have laws on the books about ripping people off.. But they are not enforced. No wonder it don't work.

    So now we have a President who is pushing for a massive change when just enforcing the laws would fix it. No hospital can turn you away without treatment if you are sick......Is that not law ? So whats all this hype about people who are not covered ? Thats not healthcare, Thats insurance ! Look at what you are being told and weigh it against what you know.

    I don't care how you voted. I have never tried to hide the fact that I'm conservative but I can say with a straight face that this is not about WHO is pushing this.. Its about why. When what we are being told don't add up, we are being misled. And when we are being misled, there is a hidden reason. What do they wish to gain ?

    The reason we allow hospitals/doctors to charge high prices is so that we get the best and the brightest as doctors and not bankers etc. Paying high prices for meds allows the drug companies to pay higher wages for scientest for research on new drugs.. Pull the money away and all this fails.. The doctors we have left will IMO be better doctors because they are there because they want to help people.. But there will be darned few of them.

    Any way you turn this it is a big and scary thing and there is no need for it.. Lets fix what we have.. Put people in jail who rip others off. Make the FDA do its job and if you catch them taking bribes hang em !

    And the only way we can do any of this is to vote and vote TOGETHER ! Call and write those in congress and senate and tell them what you want and that you will watch how they vote and WILL vote them out if they don't do as you wish. That IS their job.. I don't vote for any of them wanting my thinking done for me.

    And you see, Party really don't have a lot to do with it. Sure, Its Obama and his side pushing this but WE ALL will live with the outcome. Show our government that we want our government to be our VOICE, Not our rulers. We got over the need for a monarchy long ago.

    I ask all my siblings in the BOC to notice that I am not bashing anyone and to keep that in mind as you reply. I think I see a problem and I said so. If you see otherwise, I hope you will say so. Thats how we pick and choose between right and wrong.
    Thanks...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc_-L4fyLUo
     
  2. plainsman

    plainsman New Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    7,187
    State:
    minnesota
    In chess we can predict our opponents moves, we make decisions and the results come to pass. Same in politics, we can try to read between the lines on what is said in campaigns, but we live with the results. I'm hopin I'm wrong about my predictions.
     

  3. oh no

    oh no New Member

    Messages:
    11,108
    State:
    Indiana
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2009
  4. DANZIG

    DANZIG New Member

    Messages:
    6,672
    State:
    West Virginia
    Health care reform, actually health care insurance reform, is long over due.

    In a Country as rich as this one there is no excuse for folks to have to go without health care. And yes, many do. I'll wager the most of us have been there at least once in out lives.

    Charity care? Yep, YOU go try you some of that. And don't forget,, we are already paying for it in taxes, our cash bills, and our insurance premiums.

    I readily acknowledge that this HC bill's soul has been sold to ensure passage, but that can be fixed AFTER the fear politics having a bill or not, have been removed by it's passage.

    Make no mistake, if something is not done, decent health care will fast become something out of reach for the average American.
     
  5. Welder

    Welder New Member

    Messages:
    4,834
    State:
    Missouri
    Enforce the laws on the books. And fire-hang anyone one in Govt that sweeps stuff under the rug for self gain. We have a FBI one of their main jobs is to police the gov for those taking bribs ect.
     
  6. Fishmaster1203

    Fishmaster1203 New Member

    Messages:
    3,603
    State:
    PA
    See ya'll in HI. :big_smile:
     
  7. bluejay

    bluejay Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,493
    State:
    Napoleon, Mo.
    Know thats right!!:big_smile::big_smile:
     
  8. 1sporticus

    1sporticus Active Member

    Messages:
    1,006
    State:
    Iowa
    From what's on the news reports, it seems as if our congress is selling all Americans down the river to get this passed. I am unable to tell whether this issue is good or bad, but any time the government gets involved it's bound to be screwed up. I would like to think that if this is for all Americans, then why don't they let us vote, and we can decide for ourselves, or perhaps run a test program for a few states. I think that the congress has cheapened this issue up to the point that it is so far out of control it will never recover. Later Andy
     
  9. ammo warrior

    ammo warrior Member

    Messages:
    868
    State:
    Columbia, MO
    I am in agreement with you. If the current laws were enforced our insurance and medical system would not be as strained as it is now :cool2:
     
  10. Boomer

    Boomer New Member

    Messages:
    1,037
    State:
    Oklahoma
    It makes sense if you think about it. Who is really loosing in this big push for health care reform? The taxpayer, they are cutting medicade, because it probably is about bust by now. All those hard earned dollars we sent in weekly, bi-weekly or monthly for the government to secure our future is gone, kind of like Social Security will be.

    Any time you have the government doing anything there is a hidden agenda money, all you have to do is follow the money trail. The reason you are paying 5 dollars for an asprin is because the drug companies depend on the American dollars for research. Why are Canadian and Mexican drugs cheaper? Same stuff? Shouldn't it be the same way? Maybe trade legal drugs for some oil?

    I would have done health care reform this way.

    Sir do you have health care? No. Ok, we will call Insurance Company X and provide you service, if you can prove you are an American taxpayer, and have paid taxes in the past. Simple huh? The ACLU would have raised all kinds of H#!!, and screamed, it was unfair to exclude the illigals, but they have no rights to our health care.

    I dont think I would have went to the extremes they are going thru.
     
  11. Motopro00

    Motopro00 New Member

    Messages:
    554
    State:
    Festus, Missouri
    it goes like this...... how many of you are cops? and you get pulled over when your off duty. What do you do? "FLASH" your badge and say it's ok I'm one of you!!!! there you go
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2009
  12. Salthart

    Salthart New Member

    Messages:
    1,264
    State:
    North Carolina
    I don't think I agree. If things were done as they are supposed to be done, it would happen another way altogether. Let me give you an example..

    3 years ago I was loading a tractor on my trailer and I got this "Icy-hot" ( and yes, it was a lot like the balm, just way stronger ) feeling in my chest. Now I have extensive back problems and I have "Ghost pains" all the time. Meaning my leg may feel like its broken but there is nothing wrong. This is caused by nerve damage etc. But this pain was like nothing I've ever felt. So I did what most people with 2 more IQ points than a trained monkey would do..

    I sat down and lit a cigarette..THis did not help and in fact it got a little worse. Go figure. So I think maybe this is a heart attack..So I made my second smart move of the day.. I finished loading the tractor and then loaded the rippers for it..) ( By hand ) .

    So I think I'm only a couple of miles from the hospital although its in the wrong direction. But to be safe I will drive that way and if this has not let up, I'll stop at the ER...

    What do you know.. It let up.. Almost to the point of being gone. So I think its just another pinched nerve or such and I drive on and get on the interstate. Truck full of tools and a loaded trailer behind me.

    Glad my scare is over, I fire up another smoke and guess what.. THe pain comes back.. And this time its upset with me. Now I'm not altogether dumb though I do try hard.. I will pass by another hospital on my way home. But now I am in about the middle between them and have no choice but to go on. The pain builds and builds and I am wondering if I am going to make it.

    By the time I do get to the hospital, I am soaked in sweat. and guess what.. Theres no place to park a truck and trailer but the far end of the parking lot. So I park and lock the truck up as best I can and now I'm looking at a walk uphill of maybe 300 yards.. But I look and here comes an ambulance without any lights on !

    I am so relieved.. Here I stand in my bibs. Soaking wet, holding my chest and flagging down an ambulance.. They ignore me and drive right on.. I start my walk and at last I make it.. To a room filled with broken legs and bleeding cuts etc. Must have been 20 or 30 people in there..I can't even find anyone to talk too and no one pays me any attention so I head deeper into the hospital to find a phone and call my wife.

    I find a phone booth and I can't get through to my wife and this is upsetting me greatly. I open the door of the little booth made into the wall and stagger out and this little woman in white almost walks into me. She stops and looks me up and down and says sir, are you alright ? Help at last..

    But I'm not rolled back to a doctor right away.. Nope I'm escorted to the office where I have to show proof of ID and insurance and answer what seemed like about 100 questions before I'm taken to see a doctor.

    After all of this is done.. Remember, I'm having a heart attack here.. I do get to see a bee hive of doctors and nurses.. But how much damage was done in the time I was waiting ?

    As I understand the law, they have to treat me insurance or no.. So why put me at risk by making me wait ? My insurance card ! Once I got it out and handed it to them it was better than Visa platnium...

    The law is in place so that anyone who needs medical help gets it and yet it was with held from me until they knew I was covered. How much risk was I placed in ? I had a heart attack.. I was not allowed to see a Doctor until they knew I was covered.

    So in that respect Danzig is right.. But If the laws were enforced..But if this happened to someone and they took them to court, there would be a battery of lawyers finding ways to dodge and shuck and jive and even though I KNOW what happened, They may win.

    So they in effect break the law using the law !

    And now we are back where we started. If the laws were enforced, I would have been treated and THEN... THEN they would have learned that I had insurance....Or not.. And it don't make a fig who you vote for.. The working class is going to pay for those who can not or will not pay.. It will be that way if Obama gets this bill passed.. Only THEN, I would have been waiting on the government...

    And that scares the heck out of me ! WE DON"T NEED NEW ! Just enforce the old................................. Thats my opinion.
     
  13. derbycitycatman

    derbycitycatman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,296
    State:
    Kentucky
    Enough of this civil discussion im sending this thing straight to HI.








    Kidding, kidding, i aint saying nothin!:wink:
     
  14. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    One good feature of this legislation is the insurance companies cannot deny coverage for for a pre-existing condition. GREAT. But then, there is nothing in the legislation saying how much THIS coverage is going to cost you. Sometimes I think we would be a lot better off in this country WITHOUt a Congress.
     
  15. Baitkiller

    Baitkiller New Member

    Messages:
    1,029
    State:
    Akron, Ohio
    For the Federal Goverment to have $1000.00 to spend on on something they have to tax US (we the people) $4000.00 or you can say for evey dollar they tax us they have a quarter to spend.

    So how much heathcare do you want me to buy for you THRU THE FEDERAL GOVERMENT?????

    Embedded Taxes PLEASE READ
    http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/commentary\wb/51569

    :beat_brick:
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2009
  16. BubbaCat

    BubbaCat New Member

    Messages:
    5,868
    State:
    Arizona
    Our tax dollars build hospitals, educate doctors and supply grant moneys for drug research.. the tax payer ought to get something back other then lip service !