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Discussion in 'General Conversation' started by ryang, Apr 20, 2007.
Ill post this again had way too much of that copy from one source to another stuff in it
Ok here it is
Facts, Statistics, Fake Warrior Numbers, and Myths Dispelled
9,087,000 military personnel served on active duty during the official
Vietnam era from August 5, 1964 to May 7, 1975.
2,709,918 Americans served in uniform in Vietnam Veterans represented 9.7% of their generation.
240 men were awarded the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War
The first man to die in Vietnam was James Davis, in 1958. He was with
the 509th Radio Research Station. Davis Station in Saigon was named for
58,148 were killed in Vietnam
75,000 were severely disabled
23,214 were 100% disabled
5,283 lost limbs
1,081 sustained multiple amputations
Of those killed, 61% were younger than 21
11,465 of those killed were younger than 20 years old
Of those killed, 17,539 were married
Average age of men killed: 23.1 years
Five men killed in Vietnam were only 16 years old.
The oldest man killed was 62 years old.
As of January 15, 2 004, there are 1,875 Americans still unaccounted
for from the Vietnam War
97% of Vietnam Veterans were honorably discharged
91% of Vietnam Veterans say they are glad they served
74% say they would serve again, even knowing the outcome
Vietnam veterans have a lower unemployment rate than the same non-vet
Vietnam veterans' personal income exceeds that of our non-veteran age
group by more than 18 percent.
87% of Americans hold Vietnam Veterans in high esteem.
There is no difference in drug usage between Vietnam Veterans and
non-Vietnam Veterans of the same age group (Source: Veterans
Vietnam Veterans are less likely to be in prison - only one-half of one
percent of Vietnam Veterans have been jailed for crimes.
85% of Vietnam Veterans made successful transitions to civilian life.
Interesting Census Stats and "Been There" Wanabees:
1,713,823 of those who served in Vietnam were still alive as of August,
1995 (census figures).
~ During that same Census count, the number of Americans falsely
claiming to have served in-country was: 9,492,958.
~ As of the current Census taken during August, 2000, the surviving
U.S. Vietnam Veteran population estimate is: 1,002,511. This is hard to
believe, losing nearly 711,000 between '95 and '00. That's 390 per day.
During this Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to
have served in-country is: 13,853,027. By this census, FOUR OUT OF FIVE
WHO CLAIM TO BE Vietnam vets are not.
The Department of Defense Vietnam War Service Index officially provided
by The War Library originally reported with errors that 2,709,918 U.S. military personnel as having served in-country. Corrections and
confirmations to this errored index resulted in the addition of 358
U.S. military personnel confirmed to have served in Vietnam but not
originally listed by the Department of Defense. (All names are
currently on file and accessible 24/7/365).
Isolated atrocities committed by American Soldiers produced torrents of
outrage from anti-war critics and the news media while Communist
atrocities were so common that they received hardly any media mention
at all. The United States sought to minimize and prevent attacks on
civilians while North Vietnam made attacks on civilians a centerpiece
of its strategy. Americans who deliberately killed civilians received
prison sentences while Communists who did so received commendations.
From 1957 to 1973, the National Liberation Front assassinated 36,725
Vietnamese and abducted another 58,499. The death squads focused on
leaders at the village level and on anyone who improved the lives of
the peasants such as medical personnel, social workers, and school
teachers. - Nixon Presidential Papers
Common Myths Dispelled:
Myth: Common Belief is that most Vietnam veterans were drafted.
Fact: 2/3 of the men who served in Vietnam were volunteers. 2/3 of the
men who served in World War II were drafted. Approximately 70% of those
killed in Vietnam were volunteers.
Myth: The media have reported that suicides among Vietnam veterans
range from 50,000 to 100,000 - 6 to 11 times the non-Vietnam veteran
Fact: Mortality studies show that 9,000 is a better estimate. "The CDC
Vietnam Experience Study Mortality Assessment showed that during the
first 5 years after discharge, deaths from suicide were 1.7 times more
likely among Vietnam veterans than non-Vietnam veterans. After that
initial post-service period, Vietnam veterans were no more likely to
die from suicide than non-Vietnam veterans. In fact, after the 5-year
post-service period, the rate of suicides is less in the Vietnam
Myth: Common belief is that a disproportionate number of blacks were
killed in the Vietnam War.
Fact: 86% of the men who died in Vietnam were Caucasians, 12.5% were
black, 1.2% were other races. Sociologists Charles C. Moskos and John
Sibley Butler, in their recently published book "All That We Can Be,"
said they analyzed the claim that blacks were used like cannon fodder
during Vietnam "and can report definitely that this charge is untrue.
Black fatalities amounted to 12 percent of all Americans killed in
Southeast Asia, a figure proportional to the number of blacks in the
U.S. population at the time and slightly lower than the proportion of
blacks in the Army at the close of the war."
Myth: Common belief is that the war was fought largely by the poor and
Fact: Servicemen who went to Vietnam from well-to-do areas had a
slightly elevated risk of dying because they were more likely to be
pilots or infantry officers. Vietnam Veterans were the best educated
forces our nation had ever sent into combat. 79% had a high school
education or better.
Here are statistics from the Combat Area Casualty File (CACF) as of
November 1993. The CACF is the basis for the Vietnam Veterans Memorial
(The Wall): Average age of 58,148 killed in Vietnam was 23.11 years.
(Although 58,169 names are in the Nov. 93 database, only 58,148 have
both event date and birth date. Event date is used instead of declared
dead date for some of those who were listed as missing in action)
Deaths Average Age
Total: 58,148, 23.11 years
Enlisted: 50,274, 22.37 years
Officers: 6,598, 28.43 years
Warrants: 1,276, 24.73 years
E1 525, 20.34 years
11B MOS: 18,465, 22.55 years
Myth: The common belief is the average age of an infantryman fighting
in Vietnam was 19.
Fact:: Assuming KIAs accurately represented age groups serving in
Vietnam, the average age of an infantryman (MOS 11B) serving in Vietnam
to be 19 years old is a myth, it is actually 22. None of the enlisted
grades have an average age of less than 20. The average man who fought
in World War II was 26 years of age.
Myth: The Common belief is that the domino theory was proved false.
Fact: The domino theory was accurate. The ASEAN (Association of
Southeast Asian Nations) countries, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia,
Singapore and Thailand stayed free of Communism because of the U.S.
commitment to Vietnam. The Indonesians threw the Soviets out in 1966
because of America's commitment in Vietnam. Without that commitment,
Communism would have swept all the way to the Malacca Straits that is
south of Singapore and of great strategic importance to the free world.
If you ask people who live in these countries that won the war in
Vietnam, they have a different opinion from the American news media.
The Vietnam War was the turning point for Communism.
Myth: The common belief is that the fighting in Vietnam was not as
intense as in World War II.
Fact: The average infantryman in the South Pacific during World War II
saw about 40 days of combat in four years. The average infantryman in
Vietnam saw about 240 days of combat in one year thanks to the mobility
of the helicopter. One out of every 10 Americans who served in Vietnam
was a casualty. 58,148 were killed and 304,000 wounded out of 2.7
million who served. Although the percent that died is similar to other
wars, amputations or crippling wounds were 300 percent higher than in
World War II ....75,000 Vietnam veterans are severely disabled. MEDEVAC
helicopters flew nearly 500,000 missions. Over 900,000 patients were
airlifted (nearly half were American). The average time lapse between
wounding to hospitalization was less than one hour. As a result, less
than one percent of all Americans wounded, who survived the first 24
hours, died. The helicopter provided unprecedented mobility. Without
the helicopter it would have taken three times as many troops to secure
the 800 mile border with Cambodia and Laos (the politicians thought the
Geneva Conventions of 1954 and the Geneva Accords or 1962 would secure
Myth: Kim Phuc, the little nine year old Vietnamese girl running naked
from the napalm strike near Trang Bang on 8 June 1972.....shown a
million times on American television....was burned by Americans bombing
Fact: No American had involvement in this incident near Trang Bang that
burned Phan Thi Kim Phuc. The planes doing the bombing near the village
were VNAF (Vietnam Air Force) and were being flown by Vietnamese pilots
in support of South Vietnamese troops on the ground. The Vietnamese
pilot who dropped the napalm in error is currently living in the United
States. Even the AP photographer, Nick Ut, who took the picture, was
Vietnamese. The incident in the photo took place on the second day of a
three day battle between the North Vietnamese Army (NVA) who occupied
the village of Trang Bang and the ARVN (Army of the Republic of
Vietnam) who were trying to force the NVA out of the village. Recent
reports in the news media that an American commander ordered the air
strike that burned Kim Phuc are incorrect. There were no Americans
involved in any capacity. "We (Americans) had nothing to do with
controlling VNAF," according to Lieutenant General (Ret) James F.
Hollingsworth, the Commanding General of TRAC at that time. Also, it
has been incorrectly reported that two of Kim Phuc's brothers were
killed in this incident. They were Kim's cousins not her brothers.
Myth: The United States lost the war in Vietnam.
Fact: The American military was not defeated in Vietnam. The American
military did not lose a battle of any consequence. From a military
standpoint, it was almost an unprecedented performance. General
Westmoreland quoting Douglas Pike, a professor at the University of
California, Berkley a major military defeat for the VC and NVA.
THE UNITED STATES DID NOT LOSE THE WAR IN VIETNAM, THE SOUTH VIETNAMESE
DID. Read on........
The fall of Saigon happened 30 April 1975, two years AFTER the American
military left Vietnam. The last American troops departed in their
entirety 29 March 1973.
How could we lose a war we had already stopped fighting? We fought to
an agreed stalemate. The peace settlement was signed in Paris on 27
January 1973. It called for release of all U.S. prisoners, withdrawal
of U.S. forces, limitation of both sides' forces inside South Vietnam
and a commitment to peaceful reunification. The 140,000 evacuees in
April 1975 during the fall of Saigon consisted almost entirely of
civilians and Vietnamese military, NOT American military running for
their lives. There were almost twice as many casualties in Southeast
Asia (primarily Cambodia) the first two years after the fall of Saigon
in 1975 then there were during the ten years the U.S. was involved in
Vietnam. Thanks for the perceived loss and the countless assassinations
and torture visited upon Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians goes
mainly to the American media and their undying support-by-misrepresentation
of the anti-War movement in the United States.
As with much of the Vietnam War, the news media misreported and
misinterpreted the 1968 Tet Offensive. It was reported as an
overwhelming success for the Communist forces and a decided defeat for
the U.S. forces. Nothing could be further from the truth. Despite
initial victories by the Communists forces, the Tet Offensive resulted
in a major defeat of those forces. General Vo Nguyen Giap, the designer
of the Tet Offensive, is considered by some as ranking with Wellington,
Grant, Lee and MacArthur as a great commander. Still, militarily, the
Tet Offensive was a total defeat of the Communist forces on all fronts.
It resulted in the death of some 45,000 NVA troops and the complete, if
not total destruction of the Viet Cong elements in South Vietnam. The
Organization of the Viet Cong Units in the South never recovered. The
Tet Offensive succeeded on only one front and that was the News front
and the political arena. This was another example in the Vietnam War of
an inaccuracy becoming the perceived truth. However, inaccurately
reported, the News Media made the Tet Offensive famous.
Please give all credit and research to:
Capt. Marshal Hanson, U.S.N.R (Ret.)
Capt. Scott Beaton, Statistical Source
Have you ever thought about what it would be like if the media reported the news as it actually happened instead of sensationalism to keep there ratings up so as to sell advertisement.
Some of these interesting points made me feel slightly better. The one comment about most veterans would do it again does not apply to me however. Too many people spit in my face and on my uniform. They, if they could be singled out, could rot for eternity as far as I am concerned. Some people would be worth it, but those bad apples would not. They are probably the ones who loved to read the biased press against soldiers.
Thanks for putting these facts out there for all to see.There is one staggering statistic that I use all the time in safety briefings for our servicemen that most folks are not aware off.If you ask people how many Americans died in combat during the Vietnam war,or how many names are on the wall,surprisingly most come close and will say 58,000 or so.The actual figure is 58,193 and it fluctuates some due to finding remains in Vietnam etc.The hard to accept figure is that 9,436 Americans lost their lives in NON-Hostile circumstances.Accidents ,illness and injury etc.That is over 1/6th of the total casulties.I lost 3 close high school friends to that war.One was actually shot,one died fooling around in an airplane that crashed,and the other drove his jeep to fast and over turned.I lost one relative,a cousin and his name is on the wall also.After completing the planning for the Son Tay prisoner raid his intell team all got drunk to celebrate and he fell in a swimmimg pool an drowned.This trend is carrying thru to todays war,as over 400 of the Iraq deaths have been from non-hostile means.If you have a serviceman or woman in your family please when they return from Iraq safely ,counsel them and watch that they don't celebrate and do something foolish,like drink and drive etc.Harp on this subject,they wont like it but its better to keep them alive.At one point here recently motorcycles had killed more Marines than service in Afghanistan.They want to unwind and celebrate and thats natural,just help them use common sense.Thanks:smile2:
Who have commented on this post. Everything I read was very interesting to me! I agree very much with the fact that the Media does sensationalize everything! I would imagine that the people who recently lost loved one at Virginia Tech and those who have loved ones in the hospital due to this brutality are by now sick to death of the media and wish they could be left alone. In my part of the country in a city close by to me within 30 minutes drive,there was a young man who totally lost it and went outside of his apartment with a machine gun and started shooting. The local media was on it like flies. Most unfortunantly the first city cop on the scene had his head blown off before he could even get out of his patrol car. I was watching tv and it was 10PM when the "Special News Report" interuppted telling us what had happened. We had a sniper on the police force that snuck up on this crazed individual and immediately put him out of his misery,but the media was swarming all around the police at our local hospital.Finally one of the cops angerly told the media to get the------- out of here.he said" We have lost a brother,and we have others lying on the floor bawling like babies,can't you just leave us alone and allow us to grieve in private". Now I realize my post has nothing to do with Ryan's I am just speaking of how the Media seems to love to make a huge deal out of any major event,including bothering folks when they should leave them alone. Sorry for the length of my post. But I do thank you very much for all things that were said. Jim:I want to commend you for your statement about drinking and driving! You said a very good thing!! I wish people who do this would give up their keys. I believe alot more people would be safe on our highways if they did so. Also I think if someone wants to engage in this activity,then another person who does not drink needs to be with them at all times to strive to ensure their safety!JMHO:smile2:
Super post, Gary. Thank you for the straight story.
Most of this was news to me... mostly I remember all the media hype, although I never fully accepted all that.
This is a great education in the truth. In fact, I'm printing this out for my son, because he's fascinated with wartime history, and I think he'll value knowin the facts.
I wish the media would report those facts. Only news network who would even consider it is FOX. My history teacher is one of those who was born post-Vietnam yet opposes the war. She likes to write her own ideas into the lesson plan. Maybe I should slip that into her notes. Thanks for the post brother.
That is a great post! I wish everyone could read it and KNOW those facts. Excellent fact finding!!
Thanks much for your research...I'm a Viet Vet...thanks again...never forget.
never cared much for stats.or myths.served in 82nd airborn from 1962 till 1966.never went to viet namn.went to dominican repb.that said i do believe in being loyal to any and all soldiers who risk life and limb for the rest of us.my hat is off to all of you and my hand is over my heart when the flag goes by.thanks to all of you.
Anyone that claims to be a Nam vet and is not is very wierd.
Thank you very much for the interesting numbers. I doubt that there is a single American that does not feel for and support any measure that would benefit military personnel and veterans. I for one feel that the VA is woefully underfunded and under staffed. This is a problem that you can solve by throwing more money at it. However, we must never forget that these men and women do no chose the operations they are sent to engage in. These decisions are made by men and women in Washington, D.C. If we as citizens do not keep a sharp eye on the Federal Capital, there is no telling what sort of bloody road these men and women will be forced to walk down.
Awesome post should be read by everyone!