Verdigris River

Discussion in 'LOCAL KANSAS TALK' started by Calvin, Jul 9, 2006.

  1. Calvin

    Calvin New Member

    Messages:
    365
    State:
    Kansas
    Hey Charlie, I spent some time on the Verdigris above Toronto yesterday. If I can post some pictures I will. Can you say "flatheads"
     

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  2. catfishcentral

    catfishcentral New Member

    Messages:
    1,497
    State:
    OK
    Man, I've seen more big flatheads come out of the Verdigris river than any other river. I wish Kansas laws were not so screwed up and you could travel more than up upper sections of Kansas lakes. I'd love to have a place to put in just on the Kansas side and travel upstream to lakes like Elk city and Fall river.
     

  3. Calvin

    Calvin New Member

    Messages:
    365
    State:
    Kansas
    I hear you Chris.Kansas is blessed with some of the best flathead water in the world and only a very small percentage of us are allowed to fish it. I can't see our self serving politicians ever changing most of the stupid laws they've enacted. I agree the Verdigris is one of the best flathead rivers in the state. Its deep and full of snags and also has a great shad population, at least above Toronto. The Kansas River might produce more big flatheads, but that might also be due to that river having public access.
     
  4. Calvin

    Calvin New Member

    Messages:
    365
    State:
    Kansas
    This is a large log jam that probably covers three or four acres. Water depth ranges from ten feet deep to fourteen depending upon where you are on it. I don't know how you'd ever get a really big flathead out of there with rod and reel. I think probably a trotline or bank line would be the only realistic hope. But I have no doubt there are some world records living under that jam.
     

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  5. catfishcentral

    catfishcentral New Member

    Messages:
    1,497
    State:
    OK
    There's about a 20+ mile section of the Verdigris from the headwaters of Oolagah upstream to some shallow riffles that hold some of the biggest and best concentration of flathead, I've seen. Oolagah at 30,000 acres and the whole North end of the lake is difficult to navigate to say the least. There also a dozen creeks that can also be navigated on the Verdigris in this section of river. The biggest fish I've seen was a 103 pounder just three short of the unrestricted record in Oklahoma. I've also seen several 70+ pounders come out of this section already this year. I have no doubt there's a state or possible world record in this section of river. I would love to have a light enough boat to drag above the riffles on the Veridgris and travel the rest of the way to the state line. The only pressure it get's is from private landowners as there's no more boat ramps farther North than big creek a couple of miles North of Oolagah. I've caught quite of few decent flatheads there this year but no monsters. The whole Verdigris river basin including the Caney, Little Caney, Bird, Dog and a host of other smaller creeks that flow into the Verdigris are IMO are the best flathead rivers in Okie land. I have a invite to fish some private land here soon on the Caney, in Kansas close to Elgin, KS. I've seen it and it's full of big boulders, snags and other's great structure. There's been 80 to 90 pounders taken from the upper portions of Hulah lake all the way through Kansas. I can only imagine all the good spots that are basically untouched in Kansas.
     
  6. catfishcentral

    catfishcentral New Member

    Messages:
    1,497
    State:
    OK
    That's a mighty fine looking log jam there Calvin. I have one similar on Copan that's blocks the whole river upstream for over a half mile. There's even open pockets of water in the log jam from a 1/8 of a acre to several acres. It's great in the spring time but when the heat of the summer hits there's just too many turtles and gar to contend with. I know there's a state record hiding in mine but it's gonna be tough to get him.
     
  7. Calvin

    Calvin New Member

    Messages:
    365
    State:
    Kansas
    I used to fish the Caney above Hula Chris. You're right about the boulders. It is a narrow river but just about as deep as it is wide in most places. Just a flathead meca. I'd like to see that area you are describing above Oolagah sometime. I've always loved river fishing over lake fishing when I have a place to go. I may have to come down and check it out one of these days. I think I can drag my boat over a riffle as long as it isn't too shallow. There were a ton of gar around the brushpile yesterday too.
     
  8. catfishcentral

    catfishcentral New Member

    Messages:
    1,497
    State:
    OK
    I would fish the Caney above Hulah more often but the silt is even worse now than whenver you fished it last. The only way to get up the river is when the lake is at least 3 feet above normal. I spent several hours a few weeks ago trying to find some way in but it was all too shallow for my boat, less than a foot and thats with lake a foot above normal. Hulah is slited in so bad the Corps estimate the amount of silt is the size of a football field two miles high and it's not a very big lake. This is also where Bartlesville gets our local water supply and it's becoming a problem with less and less available water. Hulah was impounded in 1951 and all of these lakes have a useful life to them. When the river dumps into the lakes all the silt just settles instead of flowing farther downstream.


    The section of the Verdigris above Oolagah is great and well worth the trip down. Spring is the best time but anytime there good water flow your bound to catch a lot of nice fish. I was on the river yesterday, it was slow but it's a really pretty section of river. Most of the Verdigris above Oolagah is pretty deep 25 to 30 feet deep. There's tons of sandies, hybrids and walleye running upstream with the blues in the spring time. My next door neighbor hooked into a 60 pound blue this spring while trolling for walleye up by the riffles. They landed it after 45 minutes on 8 pound test line. I've talked to people on the river from Grand lake around Grove and take the time to put in at big creek than fish Grand because they believe the fishing is so much better....both in Blue cats and certainly in Flatheads
     
  9. warcraft1975

    warcraft1975 New Member

    Messages:
    1,190
    looks like a heck o f agood area there calvin,is that tyler?man he is getting big.i think your right about the kaw too,its just a matter of more access,i would think anywhere in kansas you would be able to find some real brutes when it come to flatheads,i would think your area be just full of them and not many people are fishing it then it should prove to be some real great fishing indeed
     
  10. center12

    center12 New Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    State:
    KS
    Calvin, you put in on the river north of the lake or did you make the run from the lake. Think we can do a little good in that country??????? I bet you loved the new boat on that water, perfect size what you want to do.
     
  11. Calvin

    Calvin New Member

    Messages:
    365
    State:
    Kansas
    You still can't get up the Verdigris from the lake due to the jam. But they put a ramp in above it that puts you right on the best stretch of river. There is a lot of timber along the entire stretch Charlie, with feed fields too. The biggest issue will be the weather and the bugs. I think it would be best to camp on Toronto point, which is only about four miles from the ramp and is a very nice campground. I couldn't help myself. I had to drive back over there today to check out the campgrounds and rest of the lake. Its been about five years since I was there and I was impressed. The campgrounds are all very nice with plenty of shade and lake access. In fact we might want to think about a little BOC get together there sometime. Tyler went up into the timber after squirrels but I never left the river. I'll know a whole lot more about it in a couple of weeks. I think when the moon gets dark I'll go over and spend some time scouting it throughly and setting some lines. I'll take more pictures when I do.
     
  12. center12

    center12 New Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    State:
    KS
    That's the ramp we used for the bowfishing tournament. There's a pretty good stretch of river without much public access..........should suit our purposes nicely. Your making me want to get the ol' smokepole out and play a bit:big_smile: .
     
  13. Calvin

    Calvin New Member

    Messages:
    365
    State:
    Kansas
    Tom, you are right about these Kansas rivers. My picks for the best would be the Kaw, Verdigris, Neosho, and Cottonwood, maybe not it that order. But we all know where the world record came from and I think you could switch those with the Walnut, Blue, Repbulican, Caney, Elk, or Maris d' Seine, and not be disappointed. Another one I've caught some of my largest flatheads in is the Spring River by Baxter Springs. But most of those fish came from the Oklahoma side. We're blessed with some excellent flathead water and its just a shame most of us can't fish but a tiny fraction of that water.
     
  14. kccats

    kccats New Member

    Messages:
    634
    State:
    Olathe, Kansas
    Wow, sounds and looks like the sweetest waters around!
     
  15. Bigfish18

    Bigfish18 Member

    Messages:
    534
    State:
    Wichita, Kansas
    Toronto is the only reservoir that I fish. I have done real well there on flatheads, crappie, and channels. I camp at a Toronto point and run up river from there. You can get up river from toronto point fairly easily. Just go over to duck island and follow the shore line. The hardest part is getting through the silt and actualy finding the river. Its really easy to end up in walnut creek (good flathead fishing to). The log jam in your picture is where the old iron bridge was located. If you were to have taken a left at that spot you would have made it to the lake in a mile or so. That log jam isnt over the river channel, it broke that bridge and made its way straight down a shallow oxbow.

    Forshee
     
  16. Calvin

    Calvin New Member

    Messages:
    365
    State:
    Kansas
    Thanks for the information bigfish18. I did go left for a little ways, but turned around about where the river turns. I may go back next weekend and I'll go down as far as I can go. I knew you could get up the Walnut from the lake but didn't think you could make it up the Verdigris any more.
    Can you still go as far up the Walnut as you used to be able to? Back when you couldn't get up the main river I used to do pretty well on the Walnut. If I remember correctly I kept to the west side of Duck Island and hugged that shoreline to get into the Walnut. It seems like the water on the NW end of the island was only a few inches deep too. I haven't fished there for several years but intend to renew my friendship with that great old lake.
     
  17. Bigfish18

    Bigfish18 Member

    Messages:
    534
    State:
    Wichita, Kansas
    I dont know how far you have gone up the walnut. The only time I go into the walnut is to catch crappie when the water in the lake is muddy after a rain. I just keep on going untill I reach clear water.

    If you can find the walnut then you can find the verdigris. Its a lot easier to get into the walnut because there is a 2 to 3 foot channel at the mouth. The verdigris on the other hand has an area at its mouth where there is no channel. It is completly silted in. I have a panfish model BassTracker that runs extremely shallow and I still have to floor it through the muck. The water behind the boat looks like you could walk on it.

    I am actually loading the boat and camping gear up tonight so I can leave after work tomarrow.. I have never fished the lake in 100 degree heat but this is the only weekend that I have free for the next month or so.

    Forshee
     
  18. LBM

    LBM New Member

    Messages:
    128
    State:
    Prairie Village, Kansas
    Cody

    I'm curious as to why you wouldn't launch from the ramp just above where the old bridge used to be on the Walnut if you were intending to fish Walnut Creek.

    I have fished Walnut Creek in the winter for crappie. Shure can catch some nice slabs out of there when they are hot.

    Also curious as to how far you get up Walnut to find clear water when the lake is mucked up. I kind of figured that the muck was coming down the Walnut unless the major muck was coming down the Verdigris and backing the water up Walnut Creek. Just random musings on my part.

    Good luck and will be looking for your report on Tronto when you get back. I don't think I could handle the heat out there now.
     
  19. Calvin

    Calvin New Member

    Messages:
    365
    State:
    Kansas
    Its been several years since I went up the Walnut, but I seem to remember going quite a ways up there to some pretty nice brush piles. It seems like there might have been a bridge up there too but I don't remember for sure.
    I'm with you on the heat LBM. I heard it might be as high as 107F this weekend. I'm not a great lover of heat. If I fish this weekend it will just be to set a trotline at El Dorado and then go home and sit under the air conditioner between times running it.
    The river above Toronto does look like an inviting flathead hole and I'm looking forward to giving it a shot before long.
     
  20. Bigfish18

    Bigfish18 Member

    Messages:
    534
    State:
    Wichita, Kansas
    Why I dont put in on the walnut? I camp at toronto point, when I get to the lake I get the boat off the trailer and dont take it out untill we head home.

    From my experience it seems that most of the dirty water comes in from the river. My wife and I were camping and a storm passed us by during the night. I had set lines in the river and in the walnut, so that morning when we went to check them the lake was 5ft higher than the night before. The lake also looked like it had a river of mud running through it. We tried to take the boat up the river and realized it was far to dangerous due to debris. We loaded up the boat and took it to the ramp on the walnut and to our amazement it wasnt even flowing. Of course it was 5ft higher but most of the water had to be coming back from the lake. The water was staind more then usual but it was in no way muddy.

    Forshee