Upper LOZ - 5/9/06

Discussion in 'MISSOURI LAKES / RESERVOIRS TALK' started by Mr.T, May 10, 2006.

  1. Mr.T

    Mr.T New Member

    Messages:
    2,553
    State:
    MO
    Woke up yesterday morning and it was far too nice of a day to go to work, so I hooked up the boat and headed for Warsaw.

    Dad and I fished some of the spots that Steve took us to last week and didn't have much luck - it seemed like they were running even more water than thay did last time we were there and I had a hard time getting the anchor to grab. I did manage to catch a nice 8 lb channel cat just above the old middle bridge - first channel I've ever caught on shad, and I think the biggest I've ever caught as well.

    We went down river and found Steve anchored. Stopped to chat for a while and he invited us to anchor next to him, so we did. He left after a few minutes and we stayed for another 30 or so with no action.

    Finally decided to head farther downstream and ended up around the 83 mile marker, where I found some interesting structure and fish on the sonar, so we anchored ahead of it slightly and ended up staying there for almost 5 hours.

    Dad was fishing out of the left rear of the boat and I was fishing on the right rear. And it's amazing to me how that small of a distance can affect the bite - he hooked one fish after another and I only got the occasional bite.

    Big fish of the day was 13 lbs. We ended with 10 fish total and took a few of the smaller ones home for my brother's upcoming fish fry. We only quit fishing because we ran out of bait and I had to get home to come to work today - ended up spending 8 hours on the water and that's a darned long time with only a ham sandwich to eat!

    Overall, it was a great day. I was happy to be able to apply some of the things I learned from Steve in finding a likely looking spot and then actually seeing it produce fish. Dad had a blast and is starting to believe that there may be more to fishing that just throwing a baited line in the water at random.

    One thing though:

    I was using Daiichi Circle Chunk Lite hooks, 7/0 size, and really had trouble with the hookups. I lost 4 very nice fish that really took the bait and ran - all 4 of them got off after 30 to 45 seconds of fighting, so apparently the hook wasn't set well and it didn't do the "automatic" setting that a true circle hook would. These were fish that had the pole bent over and were running before I grabbed it, so I don't think I jerked the hook out of their mouth prematurely.

    I also managed to foul-hook 4 fish on the Circle Chunk Lites - all were caught near the gills, under the bottom lip and one tiny little bugger wasn't even hooked at all - he got the dropper loop wrapped around his face and couldn't get free.

    So either I'm not doing something right with the way I'm using those hooks or they're just not suited for fishing in heavy current. Dad was using Eagle Claw Circle Sea hooks in 8/0 size and never missed a hard-biting fish.

    Anyone else using those hooks and have any suggestions? Should I just use a plain circle hook for fishing in the current?
     
  2. Bigmagic

    Bigmagic New Member

    Messages:
    382
    State:
    Edwards Missouri
    Marty, sometimes Gar will grab a bait and take off you'll even feel the weight of the fish and then bam they just let go. I wouldn't be too quick to blame the hook. Was there any slime on your line?(Blues usually leave some). The 83mm huh, I think I know that spot. You got awfully close to my stomping grounds I fish up to the 86 and down to th 62 usually.

    I'm glad you had some luck and your dad is coming around it was much the same story for me on Saturday. After listening to my two Brother-n-laws be skeptical for most of the last few years I finally got to show them. One of them was the one who told me"you can't pattern these fish" I think I sent him home with a lot to think about. I was going to go out today and just study sonar but I thought I'd wait for better conditions.( I love bad conditions for fishing though) Steve is out there like a trooper though doing what he has to do to earn a living. I hope the fish co-operate.

    I still want to make a trek to the Missouri around KC sometime this summer. I hope it works out. My wife is opening that old restaurant and ice cream shop in Fristoe so we're going to go to Springfield tomorrow to get her tax ID. I have a feeling a visit to BassPro may sneak on the schedule. I hope everyone makes the gathering in a couple of weeks. See ya on the water!
     

  3. btmfdr

    btmfdr New Member

    Messages:
    85
    State:
    missouri
    i would have to say it might have been gar also. i have great hookup rates with circles and i notice that the only time i actually have a good run and miss them is when im fishing in places overloaded with gar. i have generally
    been dismissing most fruitless "runs" ,not just nibbles and bites, as gar.
    most of this comes from never being able to hook one with a circle due to their bony mouth, but i have fought alot of them right up to the boat just to have them drop the bait as soon as their heads come out of the water.
    they are extremely stubborn. i definitely wouldnt change my thoughts on the circles, they have been extremely good to me.
    GOOD LUCK
     
  4. Arkie55

    Arkie55 New Member

    Messages:
    669
    State:
    Mississippi
    I second what those guys are saying about the circle hooks. I fish them exclusively and my current flow is pretty heavy. The gar will give you fits sometimes with those hard runs. Check the bait for teeth marks. That's what I usually find when I have a hard runner that I don't hook.

    By the way, sounds like a very good trip.
     
  5. Mr.T

    Mr.T New Member

    Messages:
    2,553
    State:
    MO
    Thanks for the replies but I'm not sure the essence of my problem is clear.

    The Daiichi Circle Chunk Light hooks aren't traditional circle hooks; Dad was using a "regular" circle hook and had no problems with missed fish. Every hard run he had resulted in a fish in the boat; 2 out of probably 8 hard runs I had resulted in a fish in the boat. I don't think I could have been "lucky" enough to have gar pestering my bait and not bothering Dad's when his was 15 feet away.

    There's something about the Circle Chunk Light hooks that's different from a regular circle hook - and apparently requires a different hook setting technique. Or else he's just a far superior fisherman to me (and I'll *never* admit that!)
     
  6. Itch2Scratch

    Itch2Scratch New Member

    Messages:
    1,662
    State:
    Ivy Bend on LOZ, Missouri
    Marty I have that exact same size and type of hook....will try them next time out and let you know if I have the same problem.:wink: It could be that his rod and line combo is different than what your using and matches up better for circles.
     
  7. Bigmagic

    Bigmagic New Member

    Messages:
    382
    State:
    Edwards Missouri
    Marty, I am still leaning toward the Gar theory. You are younger and more likely to react quickly and catch a gar nibbling. I have used the circle chunk lites and I haven't found them to be that different as far as hookup although I like Gamakatsus Octapus Circle the best. I know the bleeding bait series really gets a lot of fisherman but I kind of look at it like the old "Natural" crankbaits. Catches a lot of fisherman. Whatever hook you use even a J hook your going to have a tough time setting it into a Gar. Next time add a small piece of frayed nylon rope to the hook and find out. See ya on the water!
     
  8. btmfdr

    btmfdr New Member

    Messages:
    85
    State:
    missouri
    sometimes i start think gar are alittle bit more intelligent than people think and some times they do things that leave you scratching your head saying "is this fish trying to mess with my head? on purpose?" i know thats probably not the case but sometimes i wonder about their motives. its not like a typical fish with the see it, kill it ,eat it . sometimes thats what they do and other tmes they will harass your live bait for hours and never kill it.
    as far as them not messing with your dads bait monday a buddy of mine and i went fishing and were using live shad he was sitting 10 ft from me and nothin ever touched his bait and mine wouldnt be left alone it. it gets annoying but alot of places i fish have tons of them and ive spent alot of time trying to get them to leave my bait alone. in the process ive come to realize that im dealing with something that alot of people dont really know why they do what do, but they do it. they defintely have different motives than most fish.
     
  9. crazy

    crazy New Member

    Messages:
    2,090
    State:
    Kansas CIty, MO
    I'll third that man. As you stated in the post your dad was having hits one after another. From my experience if I'm fishing where the gar are then I'm in the wrong spot for blues. I very rarely catch catfish and have gar bites in the same spot. The hooks you have are very good hooks. I actually like the design of the Daiichi circle chunk lite better then the traditional circles. That little bit of a "v" grove at the bottom gives the bait a place to sit out of the way from the point. This keeps the bait from flipping up and rehooking it's self preventing a miss. Another good hook is the Gamakatsu nautilus I think the biggest they come in is 6/0 though. For me I pretty much use the offset gamakatsu circle octopus 8/0. As for the current that’s not a problem with circle hooks either. On the missouri river that’s all you have all the time. Something else you might try is check your lighting fast cat reflexes at the boat ramp. Stay put until "you know" he's on there. Even if that means letting him pull drag for couple more seconds. I know its frustrating using circle hooks at first but after some more time on the water that will change in a positive way. It's not your hook that’s for sure.
     
  10. Mr.T

    Mr.T New Member

    Messages:
    2,553
    State:
    MO
    Thanks guys - guess I'll stick with these circle chunk light hooks for now and just try to be more patient. I'm still skeptical about the gar, but if it happens again, I'll try Ron's suggestion - if they bite into that frayed nylon rope, they won't get loose, that's for sure.

    Taking my brother and sister-in-law out this Saturday which should be quite an adventure. He can't sit still and she doesn't know much of anything about fishing. Think we'll just go drift up on Truman even if they're running water on the upper LOZ -- my boat is too small for the two of them to go bounding from one end to the other every time a pole wiggles... :big_smile: