Ultimate Tackdriver

Discussion in 'Guns - Blackpowder' started by DIESELkat, Dec 19, 2008.

  1. DIESELkat

    DIESELkat New Member

    Messages:
    1,931
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    PA
    If you could pick 1 caliber/gun/scope combination for for relatively long range shooting (lets say up to 350/400 yards) for DEER size game, what would you choose? Im not talking a custom made rifle with a custom wildcat load with a $36,000 heat signature aquiring scope here. I mean something that is off the shelf that has a lot of potential right out of the box. Many companies offer extremely accurate guns with what used to be features that could only come from a gunsmith, like pillar bedding, free floating barrels, and extremely adjustable triggers. Also PLEASE dont say anything that even rhymes with "50 cal BMG".

    Ive often wondered what my groundhog/coyote gun setup could do if it was chambered in 300 win mag, but thats another thread all together.
     
  2. kat in the hat

    kat in the hat New Member

    Messages:
    4,875
    State:
    Missouri
    Choose your model, but a .300 mag seems the obvious answer. Accuracy, down range energy, and less wind drift than smaller calibers. 400 yards is a long way to shoot for alot of other rounds. You can hit a man sized target with just about anything...even beyond 500 yards, but to put one in the heart of a deer... .300 mag all the way if you want to still have killing power.

    I would think a Remington 700 with a heavy barrel, and a Leupold 4.5-14X40mm would get the job done for less than $1200.
     

  3. Wabash River Bear

    Wabash River Bear New Member

    Messages:
    3,019
    State:
    Indiana
    Savage model 12 F/TR in 308 Winchester straight out of the box, Nikon Monarch 6-24x50 scope. It's 12.5 lbs of rifle, but 300 to 400 yds is a walk in the park, 600 to 800 is more up to par.
     
  4. katfish ken

    katfish ken New Member

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    4,092
    State:
    Paintsvill
    Mine would be a Remington 700 308 Win.probably Varmint or Tactical with a Tasco VAR624X42M with Mil-Dot reticule.
    Figure if it's good enough for our military snipers it is plenty enough gun to plink deer with at long range.
    This is if I was buying a gun just for the purpose..
    I have guns in the cabinet that I would feel confident taking deer with at this range. 25.06, 270, 308, 30.06, or 243 WSSM. Take your pick I'll shoot it.
     
  5. 223reload

    223reload New Member

    Messages:
    10,798
    State:
    Oklahoma
    Don't know myself, I never shoot more than 2oo-250 at a deer ,So I don't need anything that reaches farther than my 243 win.
     
  6. catfishjon

    catfishjon New Member

    Messages:
    156
    State:
    texas
    My caliber of choice would be between .308 and 7mm mag. The gun would be a Remington sendero and it would have a Leopold 4.5x14x 50mm varix-111 scope with the boon and Crockett reticle.I have made one shot kills with both of these from 400 to 600 yards on deer and elk. Catfishjon
     
  7. Jacksmooth

    Jacksmooth Member

    Messages:
    574
    State:
    West Virginia
    Remington has this comparison chart on their site. It may help you out some as far as calibers.
    http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/

    If thats the range I was shooting at all the time I wouldnt be scared to use my Remington 700 mountain rifle in 280 cal. I would maybe want a little better scope than what I have but wouldnt hesitate to use the 280.
     
  8. katfish ken

    katfish ken New Member

    Messages:
    4,092
    State:
    Paintsvill
    This is a fairly loaded question, With the range given being what it is.. What kind of ammo you choose would play a very important roll in the 300 to 400 yd. range. I have taken game at these ranges but only went stalking or a closer shot would not be an option. JMO.:wink:
     
  9. gardengrz

    gardengrz New Member

    Messages:
    899
    State:
    wakeman,ohio
    right on with that gun. thats what i got in .25-06 and 18x scope. if i can see it, i can kill it. :big_smile: actually the scope is a 6- 24 x but i like to keep it at 18
     
  10. kat in the hat

    kat in the hat New Member

    Messages:
    4,875
    State:
    Missouri
    I know I wouldn't rely on a load with ony 500# of energy left at 500 yards, or have to aim 7' over their back, but that's just me. I would want to actually kill the animal. :big_smile:
     
  11. Jerry60k

    Jerry60k New Member

    Messages:
    881
    State:
    Chelyan, West V
    When I finally get around to dropping 4 grand on a rifle this would be the 1.

    http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=55

    M21 Walnut stock glassbedded Kreiger stainless barrel of course in the trusty .308

    Almost had a used 1 but it looked a little to rough for the asking price of 1500 so I decided against it even tho I doubt it was hurt in the slightest bit.
     
  12. DIESELkat

    DIESELkat New Member

    Messages:
    1,931
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    PA
    I fully agree with you Ken. This was completely a hypothetical question that I posted with the intent to be 100% educational and entertaining. Long hours in the deer stand tend to get me thinking alot about things such as this. I really was interested to see what other people believed to be the best choice. I fully expected .300's to rule the roost, but figured to see 7mm Mag and 308 peppered in there too. I expected to see the Rem 700 as a healthy choice when it came to the gun, but I fully expected the (now that they finally put a decent trigger in the thing) Savage to get some rep as well. I knew that Leupold would prolly run away with the scope choice, but lately Nikon, and even Bushnell have put out some great scopes as well.

    I would be the last person to condone taking a shot at ANY range that you feel has a probability to wound the animal. Ive said on here before that we are stewards of the game, and it is our responsibility to make ethical shots that have the greatest chance of recovery of the animal with the least amount of suffering as possible. Now with that said, its up to each individual as to what is an ethical shot for them, based on experience, gear, and the status of the animal. Most times (around these parts at least) a standing still deer in the open is about as rare as a PETA line of fur jackets. When you add extreme distance to the equation, your really making it difficult on yourself. I hear every year "well I just threw some lead at it for the hell of it". Most times if the deer doesnt fall on the spot, they dont even check to see if its hit. I lost a good friend a few years ago because he took a shot at "just a doe" that was running about 300 yards away. The doe didnt go down on the spot, so he didnt take the time to check it out. We found the deer later on that day dead as a nail just over the brow of the hill. I told him that if he couldnt have the decency to follow up his shots, he wasnt welcome to hunt with our group (the rest of the group fully agreed). Apparently he felt that this was absurd, and hasnt returned to our group since the incident. I heard last year that he was convicted of shooting 2 deer (a buck and "just a doe") and not following up either shot, which is a violation of the Game Code in PA. Here in Western PA, ag fields and brushy draws rule the scenery and shots are usually 75 yards or less, but just about every year I have an opportunity at a shot at a range thats more in the area of 300-400 yards. I shoot these ranges in the summer at chucks, and have killed deer on power lines at that range in the past, but as I said, I wondered what everyone else thought.
     
  13. katfish ken

    katfish ken New Member

    Messages:
    4,092
    State:
    Paintsvill
    I have never shot a deer that far away but would be confident that I could kill one at that that range. With the property that we own here I have a home shooting range that we practice out to 5 to 600yds.. I know I can group 5 shots in a paper plate a 500yds. but would not take a shot at a deer that far with any gun. To much risk of wounding one. Now varmint hunting IS a hole other story.
     
  14. gardengrz

    gardengrz New Member

    Messages:
    899
    State:
    wakeman,ohio
    ya, varmits is what i was talkin bout with my .25-06:crazy: mustu read the question wrong, :big_smile::cool2:
     
  15. katfish ken

    katfish ken New Member

    Messages:
    4,092
    State:
    Paintsvill
    I have no problem taking a shot on varmints period. I raise some chickens and other fowl and have a heck of a time with foxes, coyotes and other varmints. If I see a yote or fox you can bet I'll take a shot at it.
     
  16. Snagged2

    Snagged2 New Member

    Messages:
    6,252
    State:
    Verde Valley AZ
    Fun and interesting thread...
    I took it right off as "Tongue n Cheek" and will continue in that mode!!

    However,, The rifle I'd use is the one that I've killed a Lot of game with., including Elk, antelope and another Mule deer with this year..also over time,, an assortment (boxcar load) of what Arizona calls non-game animals,, jackrabbits, etc....

    It's my trusty Winchester Mod 70, in 7mm Rem Mag, I have on it a Leupold 3x9 Scope.. and I generally shoot a 160 grn bullet either a Nosler 160 Partition, or, Barnes X in 160.
    With the 26" Barrel I can, with the powder I use get 3150 FPS out of those loads. Also, 1" groups (Maximum) at 100 Yards.
    3# Lb Trigger pull.

    For sake of the discussion here., The posed situation is out to 400 yds which I'm fairly comfortable with as equipped. And,,, not limited to,,,
    But, he mentioned "Tack Driver" Being visually challenged, I'd up my antie with more power on that.(Scope) to about 25 Power cabability Also, I'd adjust the trigger to about 2 lbs..maybe less.. for the "Tack Driver" situation.
    As, I already have mounted a Harris Telescoping Bipod, that's handled. as well as an Adjustable sling for use..
    The most important aspect of a long range tack driver,,, is ,,, practicing at long range... I'm comfortable out to 750 yds with the current gear. don't have access to longer ranges safetly, but, 750 really challenges My abilities....
    For more consistent success with the Longer ranges, Heavier bullets, 175's could be easily employed for more consistent performance.
    I don;t feel comfortable shooting more than 450 yds on game though...
    Also, rather than spend more on BS costly features from a gunshop, I'd like to have a Range Finder in my Shooting Tackle...with my Binoculars!!
    With the 7mm,,,, Recoil, and power are at a nice balance. The rifle is off the shelf-Out of the box, except for some glassbedding, and free floated Barrel...!!!
     
  17. Bill in SC

    Bill in SC New Member

    Messages:
    4,451
    State:
    South Caro
    Interesting thread. Oddly enough, I have heard no mention of the trusty 30.06. If memory serves me correctly, didn't sniper Carlos Hathcock record MANY kills at ranges of over a mile, with the 30.06??!!
    Bill in SC
     
  18. Snagged2

    Snagged2 New Member

    Messages:
    6,252
    State:
    Verde Valley AZ
    I Don't know about Many kills over a Mile, but, ONE is written up he did, with a M-2 .50 cal machine gun, one shot..

    Many Kills 500-800 yds.. He started his career w/ a Winchester Mod 70, not sure of the cal, but, .308 comes to mind...He had 93 confirmed Kills:big_smile:

    Pertaining to the discussion,,, the .308 after it's arrival , soon broke all records the .30-06 set.. And both, are potentially more accurate than the 7mm Rem Mag....

    GySgt. Hathcock had a very natural ability to do what he did... A lot of Snipers also used accurized M-14's ,, which, in the right configuration and capable hands, will out shoot many bolt guns....
     
  19. Jerry60k

    Jerry60k New Member

    Messages:
    881
    State:
    Chelyan, West V
    Hathcock used a m24 308 similiar to the one I want.
     
  20. kat in the hat

    kat in the hat New Member

    Messages:
    4,875
    State:
    Missouri
    Not to kick the hornet's nest...just for conversation, and since it's all hypothetical...What makes anyone here believe that a .308 is anywhere near effective for deer at 500 yards? I definitely appreciate the accuracy of a .308...within it's effective range. Effective range for the .308, as defined by the Army is 800 yards. Effective range, as defined by USMC is 1000 yards (although unpredictable at that range). But what is it effective at, at that range? Incapacitating a human being. Rewind to the deer hunting part. While one can certainly make the argument that it is unethical to even shoot at a deer from that range, it should be taken a step farther to say that it is unethical to take a shot at that range if you are not certain the shot will be lethal. We are not trying to incapacitate the deer, we are trying to kill it as quickly as possible. In my feeble mind, there are but a few rounds that could be considered effective at killing deer at, or over 500 yards. 7mm Mag., 7mm RUM, .300 WM, .300 WSM, .300 RUM, .338 WM. I'm sure there are some more, but I can't really think, off hand, any other rounds that could be considered effective, or ethical, for shooting deer at that range. A .308 is deadly accurate...I'll give ya that, but I would sacrifice a tiny scosh of accuracy for down range energy. A .300 WM has nearly triple the energy at 500 yards of a .308. If you miss by an inch...it won't matter. Hit bone at 500 yards with a .308, and the wound is only superficial. Hit bone with a .300 WM, and it is still gonna pass through the animal, and kill it...probably knock it down. There is a huge difference between hitting a human in a war situation, and hunting deer...from an ethics stand point.

    OK...y'all can open up on me now that I got that off my chest. :big_smile: