Two Balls

Discussion in 'Guns - Blackpowder' started by crmule, Sep 2, 2006.

  1. crmule

    crmule New Member

    Messages:
    145
    State:
    Orange City Florida
    Hi guy and girls ,Got a question for you. I hunt with both a 32 cal and a 50 cal muzzle loaders.
    In talking to a person in a sporting good shop. He stated that he loads two balls into his 50cal at once and has for years .he shoots a CVA about 15 yrs.old mine is a hearitage about the same age.
    Is he pulling my leg or just trying to have less hunters in the woods next year . ?
    Bewell CR MULE
     
  2. center12

    center12 New Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    State:
    KS
    This very topic came up the other day on a muzzleloader site that I frequent. This is what I read into it................it was a very common practice back in the longhunter days to double ball, two 50 cal round balls weight less than many conicals, so projectile weight in not an issue, the balls have to be firmly seated together. All that said, I'm not about to try it, call me chicken(or smart) but I'll stick to a single bullet!!
     

  3. peewee williams

    peewee williams New Member

    Messages:
    3,111
    State:
    Pembroke,Georgia
    "2 balls",or"double shot" and "Buck and Ball" was very common for close range and night loads in the early military.Where you could not miss or could not see they make sense.They also deliberately fired their ramrods as a last resort when out of ammo.I found that it was not very accurate compared to a single ball or a conical bullet in my test.I picked this up from old men that had Civil war vet's as friends and family.I also picked up something from WW1 vets.They used shotguns in the trenches in France.They would open the 00 buckshot shells,split the shot halfway and string the shot on a flexible piece of small wire.The shot was loaded back in the shell.He claimed that the shot would make a whistling sound and that the wire led to terrible slicing wounds.Other vets confirmed this when I asked.I did not think to ask of the spacing or the wire info.peewee-willams
     
  4. Scott Daw

    Scott Daw New Member

    Messages:
    2,002
    State:
    Allentown, Pennsylvania
    never heard of it b4 but sounds interesting
     
  5. laidbck111

    laidbck111 New Member

    Peewee I have talked to a lot of vet's over the years and have heard the same thing, even saw a couple of the wounds that load caused. But until I read your post I always thought it was the older guys giving me the "business" are tall tale if you will, but I never questioned them about it. So thank you for verifying their stories.
     
  6. crmule

    crmule New Member

    Messages:
    145
    State:
    Orange City Florida
    Thanks for the info ,I think I'll stay with one ball too.
    Hey peewee nice hat ,when I trim my face fur we look alot alike . It's hell to be good looken ain't it !!!
    bewell CRmule
     
  7. peewee williams

    peewee williams New Member

    Messages:
    3,111
    State:
    Pembroke,Georgia
    The hat is a old made in China quilted cotton Chinese peasant hat for cold weather.It do work like a charm.I wear the "Face Fur" to protect my lower face.Some of my medicine causes me to be "Sun Sensitive"according to the pharmacists warning.I didn;t listen and 20 timed minutes in the sun gave me water blisters on the lower part of my face not shaded by my hat.Unbelievable for someone who has spent his life outside.As for the good looking.Man,I WAS good looking before I got this scar between my ears.Take care,peewee-williams
     
  8. Jesse168

    Jesse168 Member

    Messages:
    247
    State:
    Memphis, Tennessee
    PeeWee

    The 2 ball shot has been around for centurys. During the War Between the States both sides used cannon balls connected with chain. When shot it would definitely clear out a whole line of men.

    I have used 2-50 caliber round balls in my muzzleloader but accuracy is lacking at distances. I prefer to just take 2 rifles with me to the stand. I got in this habit after having problems with Pyrodex. I found that Pyrodex will deteriate and not fire if stored for a long time. I now only use the real black powder and I get better ignition. But the second rifle makes a second shot a lot easier....especially when a heard of deer come by all at once.
    Many a time I have gotten 2 deer that I wouldn't have gotten if I had to take time to reload.

    So fellas if you are going to muzzleload hunt for deer find you and extra rifle to take along with you for back up. You will be glad you did.

    Jesse
     
  9. cook

    cook New Member

    Messages:
    1,494
    State:
    Plattsburg,Mo.(near K.C.)
    Interesting post.
    In our state of Mo.,it would be illegal to use 2 balls at once for deer hunting.

    It reads"....discharging a single projectile...." which rules out buckshot also.
     
  10. barefootarkie

    barefootarkie New Member

    Messages:
    33
    State:
    central Ar

    Keep in mind that the early military firearms using 'buck and ball' were smootbores. Jimmy
     
  11. peewee williams

    peewee williams New Member

    Messages:
    3,111
    State:
    Pembroke,Georgia
    I found it was less accurate in both guns with rifling made for round or ball and guns rifled for conical bullets.We didn;t try smooth bore.NOW for the KILLER.I have seen warnings where allowing some distance between balls,such as one rammed homed and seated properly and the second not seated against the previous round would act as a obstruction in the barrel with the same results.It can be deadly.Also BLACK POWDER is known to become unstable with time.In the 60's the allowed life was in months and then it had to be discarded when I was in the military.Unless they have come up with a way of preserving it,I would be cautious.I also believe cannon with "Chain shot" was used in the 1400's against ships to strip their mast,sails and rigging by both ships,shore batteries and forts.
     
  12. Coyote1

    Coyote1 New Member

    Messages:
    640
    State:
    Missouri
    Dear Brothers and Sisters;
    After reading all the posts on this "Double Ball" in a Black-powder Gun question I decided it was time to make my 200 th post on this subject.
    Speaking as a professional, college degreed, gunsmith I CANNOT recommend shooting two balls in a single barreled black-powder rifle no matter if it's a modern one or not! The reason? Simply because there are too damn many things that can go Seriously or Deadly WRONG!!:angry: I do NOT want to hear of a Brother or Sister that was killed, maimed, or worse, due to using a Black-powder Firearm in a way that the manufacture did NOT intend for it to be used!
    Yes, historically, there were times and places where such a risk might have meant the difference between life and death but it is most difficult to justify that line of reasoning with the Firearms and Bullet Technology that is available today!
    As for the Brother that carries 2 Black-powder Rifles with him to his stand, that is a workable idea just as it is to carry a DOUBLE BARREL Black Powder Rifle too! :smile2: And if that Brother needs any help with that "Herd Of Deer" that charge him each fall all he has to do is give me a call and I will stand by him and protect our American Citizens from the "Dangerous Forked Antlered Quadrupeds with the White Tails" that haunt the Woods where he hunts!!! :lol:
    That's why we have an extra freezer in the back building! :smile2:
    I've also been known to protect my fellow Americans from the "Savage Bucktoothed Hordes of the Woods" too. Otherwise known as a Squirrel Hunter! :lol:
    But seriously and back to the original question. Don't bother loading two balls in a single barreled Muzzle Loader! The risk is just not worth it nowadays! Trust me on this one! It's NOT worth The RISK!
    To the brother that is having trouble with the Pyrodex, that is one of the big reasons that the "209" ignition systems came out! :smile2: Use a hotter primer cap, or if your not using a "209 Upgrade", then give serious consideration to upgrading your Muzzle loader with such a conversion and upgrade. You WILL Be Glad you did so! :)
    You ALL Take Care and Listen to the "Old Dog" on this one! I would be very, VERY, S-A-D :too_sad: to find out that a Brother or Sister did not listen to my advice on this particular subject and ended up Dead, Maimed, or worse!!
    That is All I have to say!
    Fraternally, Seriously, and Sincerely,
    Coyote1
    [[[[End of Post]]]]]
     
  13. badkarma

    badkarma New Member

    Messages:
    772
    State:
    Oxford,Miss
    I've shot double ball and buck and ball with no problems but accuracy.If you ain't close you ain't gona hit nuthing.If a muzzleloader isn't strong enough to double load(double power and double ball) I don't want to shoot it with a single load.
     
  14. Big Eli

    Big Eli New Member

    Messages:
    185
    State:
    Ohio, Clifton


    Taking two guns with you to deer hunt in Ohio would get you at the least a very fat fine and ticket or even worse!!
     
  15. jim

    jim New Member

    Messages:
    2,579
    State:
    Jacksonville NC
    OK all you smart shooters,here is a question I have and haven't been able to find the answer to.Unfortunately I don't have a reloading manual handy.How much does a single 00 buckshot weigh?I know its .33" in diameter.Thanks:big_smile:
     
  16. center12

    center12 New Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    State:
    KS
  17. peewee williams

    peewee williams New Member

    Messages:
    3,111
    State:
    Pembroke,Georgia
    The danger is letting there be a space between the balls.The 2 balls firmly seated against each other and the powder was not a problem.I took their word for it.If I remember right,a double load has been pretty much the "proof" test with firearms for centuries.peewee-williams