Trouble Hooking Up

Discussion in 'Carp Fishing' started by MattyGfishing, Jan 26, 2010.

  1. MattyGfishing

    MattyGfishing New Member

    Messages:
    88
    State:
    Hawaii
    I have a problem getting the hook to stay in the carp's mouth, they hit the corn on a hair rig, but they drop it most of the time. I thought it was sunfish or something, but there aren't very many of them left in the lake I fish for carp in. Any suggestions?
     
  2. waynesburgjay

    waynesburgjay New Member

    Messages:
    1,960
    State:
    Pennsylvan
    I'd try to get rid of the hair rig and just use a small hook with enough weight to get it out there.
     

  3. mcwrestler

    mcwrestler New Member

    Messages:
    444
    State:
    Tennessee
    I would not forgo the hair rig quite yet. instead I would look at your rig and see what the issue may be, when done correctly I have yet to find a situation it has failed to work (paylaking method aside).

    Could you post a pic of your rig for some of us to see. May be able to give advice.

    Also, what rig are you running, bolt or running rig and what weight size. Are the carp easily spooked and highly pressured or just average. Does the corn stay on the hair after reeling in? Do you also chum a bit as well.

    How many kernals of corn on the hair?
     
  4. MattyGfishing

    MattyGfishing New Member

    Messages:
    88
    State:
    Hawaii
    The main line is Trilene XT Extra Tough 8lb test breaking strength, the sinker is a 1oz bell sinker, followed by a small bead and swivel, the leader is Trilene XT Extra Tough 8lb test breaking strength, the hook is a size 10 extremely sharp octopus hook, with 4 pieces of sweet corn.

    I fish a public park, I have no fear of sunfish or bluegills stealing my bait; most of the game fish in the lake have been fished out long before I was born (1992). There is a boat launch in a lagoon that has a break wall along side it, and I have always seen 5-10lbers cruising along side it while I was jogging on sunny days. I've never seen anyone fish for carp there so I decided to give it a shot and caught a nice 5lber. That was 2 years ago, I have been to the same area many times with no luck. I tried 1-5 pieces of corn on a hair rig to see what would work best, and nothing but that first carp.

    Prebaiting isn't really necessary because people feed the ducks in that area a lot.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. metalman

    metalman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,463
    State:
    IN
    Name:
    Winston
    Let's see a picture that better shows your hook, hair length and how / where you attach the hair to the hook...W
     
  6. gamaCatsu

    gamaCatsu New Member

    Messages:
    219
    State:
    NC
    size 10? i fish with size 4... if the hooks to big this will cause the carp to spit it out.

    this is the rig i use... tried to draw it best i could


    http://tinypic.com/r/2z9bryh/6
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2010
  7. MattyGfishing

    MattyGfishing New Member

    Messages:
    88
    State:
    Hawaii
    Sorry, here's a better picture.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. gamaCatsu

    gamaCatsu New Member

    Messages:
    219
    State:
    NC
    hook doesnt seem to be to big...have you tried anything other then the hair rig?
     
  9. mcwrestler

    mcwrestler New Member

    Messages:
    444
    State:
    Tennessee
    Thanks for posting the pic, that helps get to the root of the problem.

    Hook size is fine, especially for winter, but you will want to do a proper knotless knot hair rig. The way you have done it is essentially the concept, however, the hair comes off the shank of the hook in an unnatural position. Googling hair rig you can find a good demonstration, and it is a simple knot to tie when you practice.

    The hair also appears to be rather long. In the winter downsize baits. 1 or 2 pieces of corn on the hair, with the hair just long enough for the corn, and fish it near a handful of corn.

    The 1oz running rig should work, but when it fails for me I switch to 2 or 3 oz fixed weights (Have the weight set the hook i.e put split shot near your weight to keep the line from running through it).

    First thing though, you must tie a true hair rig to get maximum effect, I use 65lb braid, but mono will work as well.

    Check out my closeup of my hair rig on my hair rigging bread thread. Also, bread is king in winter as well as other seasons as well. It gives you an idea of how it can look.

    http://www.catfish1.com/forums/showthread.php?80917-Want-to-hair-rig-bread-Heres-how&daysprune=-1
     
  10. mmagreg

    mmagreg New Member

    Messages:
    75
    State:
    Pittsburgh
    forget the hair rig.... use a size 1/0 bait holder for the hook... you could use a slip sinker rig perhaps but you'll probably have as much success just tying on a 1/4oz sinker 12-18" above the hook on your main line... keep with the corn, but definitely chum it... not too bring them in, but to make them comfortable with gorging on it. They can be finicky eaters, they suck it up and spit it out over and over to make sure it is edible/safe/i dunno why, but they do... if you toss out a couple handfuls they will get greedy on the gold mine of food and start competing with each other to suck up as much as possible... it's a way of giving them a false sense of security as well as making them compete to eat as much as possible... don't worry that they will get filled up either, they'll clear a whole can of corn and still look for more.

    This is how i have been catching common carp on both rivers and lakes since i was a kid, and it still proves quite successful for me to this day. You'll never catch those carp you see at your feet unless you draw them into a false sense of security with an abundance of chum/bait.

    I uploaded a few carp pictures on my profile, nothing incredible, but just a tiny sample of the carp i catch... all on corn the way i described.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
  11. 223reload

    223reload New Member

    Messages:
    10,798
    State:
    Oklahoma
    I use a 1/0 circle when I target carp to make cut bait out of. Never had that happen. I'd say ya might need to upsize the hook a bit and hair rig?? I've heard of it but I seriously doubt its needed for carp unles they are pressured greatly. Here the only pressure they get is summer when my buds bow hunt for them.
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
  12. metalman

    metalman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,463
    State:
    IN
    Name:
    Winston
    Matt I would agree with all that brad says although the rig you are using is how we did it back in the early 80's when the hair was first "invented" and i have caught hundreds of carp on it. Back then the hair was a pice of 1lb mono.Certainlt though, the more modern version is more efficient.
    I can't belive that with all the bite you have been getting that you wouldn't have hooked at least one fish even by accident. Are you sure that the bites are actually carp???

    I would also agree with Greg and Richard in that the hair rig is not really necessary in most US waters. It came about as a solution to catch really wary fish that had been caught over and overwhich is certainly not the case with most carp here.

    Carp love spam as much as they love corn and bread. Spam is easy to fish with or without a hair rig. If you cannot hook whatever it is that is giving you the bites using corn, bread or spam, i would bet they are not carp...W
     
  13. mcwrestler

    mcwrestler New Member

    Messages:
    444
    State:
    Tennessee
    While a hair rig is not a must on US waters, I can say it increased my hook up ratio greatly. Fishing side by side on the same water with same baits the hair rig out performed the standard rig 4 to 1 easily. Both get hits, hair rig held more.

    I do not fish heavy pressure waters but you can bet your last dollar that if I am not using a puff I'm using a hair rig. Also works better on larger wary fish. The hair rig is the one thing I could never turn from. The hair rig takes advantage of natural feeding habits of carp.

    I would venture and say the fish you are missing are not carp, just small fish giving it a tug.

    Can you catch a carp with a 1/0, of course. That doesn't make it most effective.

    The one time I will freeline without a hair rig is when I can look the fish I'm after in the eye and I'm using a very small weight. With a hair and 3oz weight a fish will usually hook himself.
     
  14. MattyGfishing

    MattyGfishing New Member

    Messages:
    88
    State:
    Hawaii
    I have never really tried any other way to catch carp. I have fished the same lake and other lakes with worms and cutbait to catch catfish; I use a 1/0 circle hook and the same rig without the hair, not much luck with that either. I have never caught any carp on that stuff though. Corn seems a bit small to fit on a circle hook so I never even tried that.
     
  15. 223reload

    223reload New Member

    Messages:
    10,798
    State:
    Oklahoma
    I just start impaling kernals one after another on my hook till its completely covered with them. works great
     
  16. MattyGfishing

    MattyGfishing New Member

    Messages:
    88
    State:
    Hawaii
    Alright, I'll have to give that a try then.
     
  17. MattyGfishing

    MattyGfishing New Member

    Messages:
    88
    State:
    Hawaii
    Also, is there a difference in how carp and normal hook sizes are? I bought some "size 10" carp hooks and they the same size as my "size 6" octopus hooks are.
     
  18. mcwrestler

    mcwrestler New Member

    Messages:
    444
    State:
    Tennessee
    All hook sizes vary brand to brand and pattern to pattern. I usually use nailer pattern hooks found in fly shops for nymphs. The curved shank does well for me.

    I have caught my biggest carp on hooks that are size 6.
     
  19. airdrop

    airdrop New Member

    Messages:
    163
    State:
    Oklahoma
    thier ideal way lol , I have been useing sz6 finesse hooks an they work very good. The hook holds about 4 kernels of corn and has wide enough gap to hook in the lip part of the mouth . I use a slip sinker with 18 inches of leader , they pick it up and move off then I set the hook. personally I use a Leader around 15 lbs as some of the carp in my pond are quit big , although small can be fun with right gear. Have fun they are some of the best fighters you'al will hook onto. As to smaller hooks ,it seems to me the larger lips of carp would make it harder for the hook to set in the rubbery lip tissue and larger a might to heffty, my thought only lol.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2010
  20. charlesthecarpmaster

    charlesthecarpmaster New Member

    Messages:
    160
    State:
    Kentucky
    As my name implies, I'm a carp nut. I don't use any fancy gear or rigs, but I still catch carp. Unless your #10 is much larger than the average #10 hook, than it is WAY TOO SMALL. I use #10 salmon egg hooks but I've had lots of 3" - 4" bluegill swallow them. Even too small for them. Yes, carp DO have small mouths, and they ARE sometimes pressured, but you can get away with AT LEAST a #6 hook, while I use a #4 and #2 quite often. "Eagle Claw" is the brand I use, baitholder style hooks. Baitholder style hooks are very slightly curved and have barbs on the back of them for helping hold any of your dough-baits or corn that you add straight to the hook. A hook with barbs is a neccessity if you are adding your bait straight to the hook...

    Use a simple Carolina rig. Use AS LITTLE weight as you can get by with. No-moving of the water at all, you can use 1/8 OZ - 1/4 OZ weights quite nicely. With a little bit of current 1/4 OZ - 1/2 OZ works fine. For heavier current 1 OZ maybe used and for the heaviest no more than 2 OZ I would believe. Slide your egg isnker onto your line and tie on a swivel, then add about a 12" leader and then tie on your hook. I use 12lb clear/blue Stren mainline and 15lb clear Omniflex leader when chasing carp. Flourocarbon is another good choice for a leader as well.

    When your line gets tight, just stick 'em. Not a hard jerk, a rather pull should do fine. Hooks penetrate a carps mouth very easily. Make sure to keep hooks sharp though, Gamakatsu & Mustad baitholders are the best, if you can find them. Even some European carp hooks work wonders as well.

    I just use a Carolina rig and put my bait straight on the hook. I've never had luck with corn, never even caught a carp on the stuff. I use homemade dough-baits of sorts and use on my baitholder hooks.

    Just what I use not saying it's the best but works fine for me.