Tips on Getting Permission

Discussion in 'Deer Hunting' started by kkyyoottee, Sep 10, 2007.

  1. kkyyoottee

    kkyyoottee New Member

    Messages:
    754
    State:
    Iowa
    As a landowner all my property is posted. Most of you will quit reading right there as most do my signs. WITHOUT PERMISSION they fail to read that. I save some areas but allow other areas to keep my kids safe and other hunters safe. Here are tips I feel might get you permission.

    1. Dont show up opening morning!!
    2. Dont show up dressed like a slob or alcohol on your breath
    3. Ask if landowner knows of anyone who allows hunting. This is none threathing and most know someone or may let you hunt on their property.
    4. The earlier you ask the better chance you have.
    5. Ask about varmit hunting!! A year of getting rid of varmits will let landowner observe you and may get you a ticket into hunt deer or whatever you are hunting.
    6. Introduce yourself and whoever you plan to take with you . The smaller number the better!!
    7. Ask if there are any chores (fence repairing, weeding, etc. that you could help with)
    8. Always share a choice cut of game taken to landowner
    9. Dont forget to thank them successful or not.
    10. Send a thankyou card !!! or gift certificate to special diner in area!

    Good luck!!!
     
  2. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    You forgot one.
    Offer to pay:big_smile:
    Land taxes are something that seems to never go away and they get higher and higher.

    Taxes on a farms around here aren't all that high if its just an 80 acre tract with some timber and row cropping with an old farm house.
    We have one such property and the taxes run around 1100 a year.

    Here our counties have a G.S. mapping office.
    Timber cruisers probally utilize them more then anyone.

    You can go in this offices look at the plat maps for places you want to hunt, purchase have a copy of that plat page made and go to the county tax office to see what the taxes are.

    Find something suitable and go bang on doors. If all else fails offer to pay the amount the property taxes.
    This is a double win situation if the property owner is also already leasing out the row crop land. The row crop lease is already going to pay the taxes. When you offer to match tax liability his land is paying for itself double time.

    We've got 40 acres of 10 year old cutover we would consider letting one or more hunt on right now if they ante up otherwise its not worth the trouble.

    Hunters are also one of the best security systems available. They'll generally discourage the tresspasser by being on portions of a property that otherwise dont normally see the owner.
     

  3. kat in the hat

    kat in the hat New Member

    Messages:
    4,875
    State:
    Missouri
    I know of some farmers who lease areas for hunting. Helps to know the guy personally, or most won't know about it, but some areas are marked with signs. It usually runs between $75-$150 per stand, and possibly only on certain days. Sounds kinda expensive to me, but I don't have to pay, so anything sounds expensive to me. It is reasonable to expect, or at least offer to pay for the privelege of hunting on someone's land, and offer some bounty. Alot of farmers view deer especially as being destructive, and just want them thinned out, but by the right people that they trust to be on their land. Typically, just asking in a courtious fashion will earn you at least one hunt on a trial basis. Offering part of the bounty, and helping maitain the property are big bonuses for the landowner as well.

    I have always had reservations about asking people that I don't know personally for permission to hunt, or fish on their land because I don't know what their past experiences have been with ungrateful, or unethical hunters in the past, and don't want a lecture. Luckily, I have other options.
     
  4. Scott Daw

    Scott Daw New Member

    Messages:
    2,002
    State:
    Allentown, Pennsylvania
    that would be a bad idea here in pa. with the anter restrictions and the bs that recently took place when someone was hunting on private land (a large orchrd.who illegally shot at a fox down hill without an appropraite backstop, his stray bullet hit a pregnant woman in the head. they survived but the landowner laws in place were not used in defense for the landowner who was also held accountable for the other guys actions. it wasnt the landowners fault that the guy pulled the trigger. you expect that if you went the hte program and got your license you knew what you were doing when hunting. Not this guy. the guy is a creap and never apologized when they verified it was him that did it. that sent up so many posted signs it wasnt funny. now they made enhancements which are supposed to make it better for the land owner when the person hunting his property is an idiot. If you manage to get permission, offering money will only encourage lease hunting here which no one wants. theres to much private land & not enough good public land. I'd gladly fill a doe tag for the land owners freezer though.
     
  5. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    I'm all for lease hunting.
    Leases offset landownership expenses one of which is the stupid inheritance tax.
    And of course I'm big into capitalism.
    I dont view private lands and waters as the public's.
    I am a big proponet of private ownership as opposed to government ownership.

    Part of owning large tracts of land is making it pay for itself.
    The county tax offices are cracking down on these old farms now trying to squeeze tax dollars.
    In this county for instance your farm has to show a certain amount of profitability as a farm. This was a major problem until they did away with tobacco allotments. What was happening was farmers were leasing land for the allotment to use elsewhere and leaving your fields untended.
    When this happens the county takes away your farm tax rate and makes it a residential tax rate which will triple your taxes easily.
    Lease hunting can be added to farm profits.

    Take my immediate family for instance. We are like alot of land owners in that we dont farm any longer. We are land holders holding several farms. We have no intentions or desire to sell but we can still make the land pay for itself virtually without lifting a finger and with moderate expenses. We win and the landless hunter wins.

    Thoughtful and creative contracts for lease hunting benefit, the land owner, the hunter, and the land itself.
    A lease enters value into the equation of me as a landowner and a hunter that wants land to hunt on.
    In the value that the contract between the two offers is clearly defined rights of the hunter given by the landowner and rights of the landowner as being the owner.

    With a hunter hunting a lease agreement he gains a certain measure of control of the land he hunts and responsibilities.

    If I were still a serious hunter and didnt have plenty of land to hunt on as a land owner I would be seeking a lease arrangement. Thats the only way I would have it. With that lease I know that the landowner is also "locked in" and everybody else is locked out. I'm not having to deal with his brothers, cousins, and friends. Once I lease it, its up to me who hunts it with the proper lease.

    We've offered options in the past in leases as in sole use of of the land to hunt without access to the pond and with the pond depending on what you want to pay for. Many hunters also fish which gives them a place to fish when hunting season is over although we would never include the ponds in a sole lease.

    As for sharing the bounty. I can live without venison. Sure, I'll eat it but deer in my freezer isnt paying the taxes or the upkeep. If we liked venison that much its nothing to kill our own. I could kill one a day out the truck window without trying real hard.
    Now we'll renegotiate a little if you keep the freezer full of quail.:big_smile:
     
  6. Catgirl

    Catgirl New Member

    Messages:
    13,546
    I've got varmits (dang, so sorry.....meant to call 'em wildlife) here on my property. Pertaining to which, the property taxes here are preventing me from coming to a BOC gathering I'd planned to attend. SOOOO..... anybody who wants to come and take care of 'em, feel free. But ONLY if you have some kinda special trapping devices.......I'm in the city limits, can't even FIRE a gun around here without repercussions. Ahhh, dang it......I should prolly shut up. Might be some rules about trapping TOO. Guess I'll just keep growin' weeds, feeding the friendly critters, and learn to identify snakes in the house :smile2:.
     
  7. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

    Messages:
    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    I have 130 acres of wildlife managed land. I physically will not be able to hunt this any longer. Hunted yearly with 7 persons, we were able to take 8 deer within a 48 hour period, first shotgun season. I had allowed early muzzle loader, bow and arrow, and black powder and included spring and fall turkey, on an individual basis. All tags were filled yearly, at no charge or obligation to the participant.

    I hate deer and if we stop hunting this they will overrun us more than they have already. My question is this. Mark has suggested payment based on taxes. I think Kat mentioned per stand. Some may charge per kill. Some may charge per acre. What are some of the numbers you guys use to charge to lease your property. I hate even thinking about this because I am such a private person with my property. I realize all areas are different and rates will probably vary. Give me some round numbers. John
     
  8. catfishrus

    catfishrus New Member

    Messages:
    1,569
    State:
    north carolina
     
  9. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    LOL, 1100 isnt my price.
    The 1100 hundred was an example.
    Could I get 1100 for it a year? You bet. Plenty of concrete stompers are looking for a place out of town and away from the wife with a valid excuse of hunting.
    Its not actually what I'm looking for though.

    It must suck because I dont hunt it? No. I'm a lazy hunter or a smart one. I hunt from the truck window or the from the living room floor in the prone position with the french doors open. If I feel like hunting I wont even drive 5 miles to hunt. I'll hunt where I live or wont hunt.
    Actually if you are an avid hunter that farm is better then the one I live on even if it is 50 times smaller.
    You can turkey hunt there. The deer habitat is there. There are a few wild boar, seen bear tracks, and then you got a 5 acre pond and creeks to duck hunt and trap on.

    If you plunk down your hard earned cash for a lease, read the lease.
    If it doesnt guarantee you sole hunting rights and unimpeded hunting, have the owner put the clause in the lease or go somewhere else.
    My people will stay off ours. Its the hunter that is responsible for posting the land.

    I dont agree that NC deer hunting sucks. When I hunted I thought the exact opposite but I wasnt expecting Michigan or Manitoba sized bucks to be walking around the woods either.
    As far as sheer number, its hard to beat NC deer hunting. I think I have the effects of carpal tunnel brought on by pulling a trigger.:smile2:
    Still I've seen some impressive deer that are trophy class come from this area. Seen bucks up to 252 pounds on the hoof. Thats a large buck in many parts of the country.
    The casual hunter or weekend hunter rarely get these deer from what I see.
    The guys that work 16 hour days in the off season so they can take the entire deer season off get these.
     
  10. kkyyoottee

    kkyyoottee New Member

    Messages:
    754
    State:
    Iowa
    John we are hearing 3-10 bucks a acre depending on if its just for deer or just turkey and etc. Belinda and I would be both interested in talking to you!! But it would be just us and our kids. 2 bow hunt, 2 muzzy hunt and 2 dont get chance to hunt very often. The wife and I muzzy hunt and turkey hunt. So give me a pm with a number!!

    Will
     
  11. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    Beetle, I just used the taxes an option to to use to show some appeal to a landowner that doesnt allow hunting.

    Most places lease by the acre.
    I've seen an awesome 89 acre lease go for 2.25 an acre. I offered 8 dollars an acre because it was next door and I could easily sub lease or charge per hunt and make my money back.
    First they didnt believe I would pay 8 bucks an acre until I asked for their physical address so I could get on the road with a check. Then they wouldnt lease because they wouldnt feel right knocking it out from the other guy. Most people arent like that. Thats why I say if you like a place be willing to pay above market value like somewhere around the tax mark and let the owner know you are paying above market value to hunt it.

    You can get real creative with leases like year round monthly installments, cleared land set aside for food plots, etc.
    Between the hunter and the landowner they can put something together that benefits both parties and is a contract that is admissable in court.

    If I let someone just hunt I'll have a corn pile or two thrown in the woods.
    If I lease to someone, that someone will be more apt to actually do something beneficial to the land and the wildlife. He has a paid stake in it or "VALUE".
     
  12. kkyyoottee

    kkyyoottee New Member

    Messages:
    754
    State:
    Iowa
    Mark
    you made some great comments on letting someone hunt vs lease . We have owned many pieces of hunting land and leased a few also but would never lease to sublease and I would never allow a sublease. You got the right to lease because land owner felt right with you not some person you might feel right with!! I have turned down money leases because something just didnt click. Id rather let someone in for free than let someone who i dont like pay. Just a gut thing with me. And I usually know within 3 minutes if they are going to hunt on my land or not. But thats just me. Anyway you made some great comments!!!
     
  13. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    I agree on your take of sub leasing in almost all circumstances.
    In my circumstance the owner of the land is a corporation that I highly doubt has ever had anyone that actually has seen the land. The corporation isnt based in NC. Back years ago, this was one of several corporations that bought up land all over the US often times sight unseen for no apparent reason other then possibly a tax shelter or to increase their assets on paper.
    This company sold off or leased the timber rights. Its the timber company I would actually lease from. They have little care who actually hunts it. Their stake is in the timber. A hunting lease is just a few more pennies they can get out of the tract on top of the timber value.

    In this scenario a sub lease would wouldnt bother the timber company.
    Number one they would actually rather lease to an adjacent landowner because I become their eyes from afar. Should it burn or if someone decides to cut a road into it and start hauling out firewood it wouldnt be months before they found out. Same situation in the sub lease. I'm right next door handling the situation. The sublease wouldnt affect them one way or the other. It would be up to me to honor my agreement to both parties.

    Case in point, if the timber company moved in to grab the timber during hunting season, the timber company would be forced to reimburse me according to the lease. I would have to reimburse the sub leaser as well.

    Leasing is just a better option for both parties. I've got outlined in writing what I wont stand for like cutting ruts into a pond dam with a 4 wheeler or cutting down trees unless approved to do so. I can allow camping on the property or not or not allow open flame fires or bonfires.

    With a lease there is no "I didnt ever hear you say that" and in the same sense I'm leasing year round. not just during hunting so I cant come up and change my mind on things according to the direction the wind is blowing. My changes are made at the lease renewal.
     
  14. catfishrus

    catfishrus New Member

    Messages:
    1,569
    State:
    north carolina
     
  15. derbycitycatman

    derbycitycatman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,296
    State:
    Kentucky
    Is hunting from the truck window even legal? I dont think it is here, not that it matters I guess. I heard of this a while back so it may have changed. Accepting payment from someone to hunt also comes with some liability. If they get hurt guess who they are looking at. I seem to remember here in KY just letting someone hunt didnt make you liabile in such matters. As far as getting permission I bring gifts such as brownies, deer jerky, ammo or whatever. THere are still a few out there who let others hunt. ONe way I think is a great way to gain access is trapping. Most folks dont like raccoons, beavers, coyotes or whatever. Trapping them for them at no cost is a great way to get familiar with landowners who will then be more likely to let you hunt.
     
  16. catfishrus

    catfishrus New Member

    Messages:
    1,569
    State:
    north carolina
    brian most timber/paper companys require the lease to have insurance on it and also some require a signed wavier from all club members that hunt the land. i dont know how it would work with marks thoughts of sub leasing though. leasing private ground might not require it but you bring up a good point about having some type of issurance that would cover the landowner in the case of a accident. it would be a good measure to help gain access to land also in the case of a lease.
     
  17. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
     
  18. bootshowl

    bootshowl New Member

    Messages:
    2,288
    State:
    Indiana, J
    Guess I'm seeing for the first time that hunting is a rich mans sport. And excuse me; We are friends but I'm gonna pay your annual taxes to deer hunt on your property even though you already had em paid for in other endeavors? How did we get from some great tips on asking the land owner permission to hunt something that destroys his crops, to Tony Sopranos' rural interprise?
    No wonder we can't keep the poachers off the family farms. They're not poachers, they are just low income. Yeah Mark, I know, it's their own damn fault they are low income. Just lazy or ignorant.
    And I can't post anything about profane lakes....but this pay to hunt thing is Kosher? What's the damn difference?
    So by the time I'm out the expence of the equipment, the license, the tag, the gas, pay your ass....I might as well gone to the meat market and bought a side of beef. Which is what I would do.
    "Wipe en off here boss...it's almost up to my knees."
     
  19. baitchunker

    baitchunker New Member

    Messages:
    1,689
    State:
    alabama
    i have a pretty good relationship with some of the gw's around here (after that small incident on the water). from what they say, 80% of the poachers they catch are low income meat for the family guys. 10% are meat processors who sell the extra meat for profit. the last 5% is your typical run of the mill redneck A-hole.
     
  20. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    You have other options. Dont hunt or buy land.
    Farms are a business. Owning land is a business.
    I wouldnt go out here and buy a 125,000.00 tractor without being able to make it profitable or pay for itself.

    People pay to live in houses whether its rent, lease, or rent/lease to own.
    People lease cars every day. People rent wedding halls. People lease retail space.
    But I suppose people are born with the right to hunt free?

    Come on. Hobbies aren't exempt from cost.
    People spend ungodly amounts of money on firearms and bows to hunt but paying for a lease is blasphemy? Yea, OK.

    Now back to the real world. You are more apt to gain hunting ground with a dollar bill then offering to mend a fence that hasnt been used in 30 years especially if the owners are of social security age.
    People that aim to make their land pay for itself aren't evil. They are using their head.
    I guess if I have a car and you want it, I should let you use it any time you want without compensation. I'm still the one keeping it up.