Thoughts on QDM

Discussion in 'Deer Hunting' started by kkyyoottee, Aug 15, 2007.

  1. kkyyoottee

    kkyyoottee New Member

    Messages:
    754
    State:
    Iowa
    Quality Deer Management what are your thoughts for or against? and why?
     
  2. ladyfish50

    ladyfish50 New Member

    Messages:
    4,182
    State:
    Louisiana
    Oh boy, let's hope I don't get "hammered" for this one!
    I honestly am somewhat "middle of the road" on this one. For years, when I first started hunting, if it walked out, I shot it. And to date, I've still not gotten a trophy buck. But in the past few years, I've gotten to where I enjoy it more watching the does & yearlings walk, & waiting & hoping for a good buck. Unfortunately, I've not had lady luck smile on me yet...but that's what keeps me going! I had one good buck come out a few years back, & my blackpowder gun misfired...aghh! Another buck only peeked his head out for a second, & then lowered himself into the tall grass & slipped off! Gosh, they're smart.
    But, my two grandsons, ages 13 & 12, have just started hunting with us a couple of years ago. The younger one got his first deer, a spike, after only sitting in the stand for 1/2 hour! The older one had to go on 10 hunts before his Papaw let him take a young doe. But after that, we made them watch the young ones & study their behavior. But, I do want to keep them interested in the sport, so if it comes down to it, we would let them take another doe.
    I feel we're managing our deer pretty well; in fact, we still see alot more does than bucks. I won't argue the point with anyone....I understand both sides, & will accept anyone's opinions, for or against.
    Just make sure we all keep that most important right: To Keep And Bear Arms!!
     

  3. kkyyoottee

    kkyyoottee New Member

    Messages:
    754
    State:
    Iowa
    I will stir it up a little more!! In our neck of the woods the deer are repopulating faster than they are being harvested. It is to the point there are more car-deer fatalities than deer/gun fatalities. I think where this is a problem you should have to earn your buck!! You shoot a doe first or 2 then you will be issued a buck tag!! Just my thoughts!!:tounge_out:
     
  4. Cathooker

    Cathooker New Member

    Messages:
    299
    State:
    Ga
    On the land we hunt in Alabama we have a self imposed rule....you must harvest two does before you can harvest a buck. I have seen QDM fail miserably when it was not properly managed and have also seen it be very successful. When we are hunting we always let the young bucks walk, take does for the freezer and only shoot mature bucks regardless of rack size. The QDM that I saw fail had a minimum antler restriction of 4 one inch points on a side to make it leagal. There is a lot of young bucks that meet this. The taking of does was discouraged. This was run by the state of Gerogia on a WMA and I watched this WMA go to crap in a matter of five short years.
     
  5. lroyal

    lroyal New Member

    Messages:
    43
    State:
    Georgia
    here in Dooly county we have qdm program. i dont really agree with it because the bucks have to have a 15 in or larger min spread to be legal. i hunt 200 acres of family owned land and only have 2 bucks that size on it. we have alot of bucks that are mature that only have basket racks. i wish i could go on and get them out of our herd and let the big boys do the breedin.
     
  6. Kutter

    Kutter New Member

    Messages:
    5,379
    State:
    Arnold, MO
    I can only explain what we have been doing for the last 8 years, you have to decide on the results. Exact numbers may be off, due mostly to my loss of memory. Points are for typical, with nontypical estimated as a typical.

    3200 acres, far north central Missouri, about evenly divided between thick woods and either pasture or crop fields.
    On average, 15 hunters for bow season (3 months), 25 hunters for buck/doe rifle season (11 days), 15 hunters for doe season (9 days).
    8 point minimum, (state law 4 points on one side), spread 13" (not enforced, just requested).
    Recently started requiring no buck hunting without killing a doe first or at least last year.

    Yearly average before QDM 8 years ago, 80 total deer killed, 30 does, 10-15 button bucks, most bucks 4-8 point basket racks with the occasional 10 point or better every few years. Biggest rack was a buck killed in the early 1960's by owners father.

    Yearly average since QDM as stated above, 100 total deer killed, 70 does, 4-5 button bucks (mistaken for does), most bucks killed 8-12 point, several 14 point or better each year, occasional 18-20 point. No baskets seen for several years. Several 8 pointers even would make book. New camp record dry scored 197.

    Up until last year, button bucks were not allowed. Last year it was changed to buttons were allowed, but highly discouraged.

    I suspect, as the years go by, we will concentrate more on forcing hunters to kill more does. The herd seems to be growing each year, even with the large doe kill off.

    This farm, and their QDM program, has been written about in several magazines as the recommended QDM program by the Missouri Department of Conservation.

    As for me, I'm just eternally grateful I am allowed to hunt this farm!
    (I've only killed two bucks on it, both nice 8 pointers. I'm more of a doe hunter. I brought home 11 last year and 9 the year before.)
     

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  7. Kutter

    Kutter New Member

    Messages:
    5,379
    State:
    Arnold, MO
    Hears a pic of my deer last year.

    Oops, I can't find it right now, I'll keep looking
     
  8. derbycitycatman

    derbycitycatman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,296
    State:
    Kentucky
    Im for it but of course theres situations where I can see, If its brown its down. For most folks I let hunt family land its no bucks unless its a legit monster. Saying that Ive let a couple young uns hunt and if they havent had any success they can pretty much take what they want. I want them to have fun first and worry about growing big ones later. After they take their first then the next year Im more strict. First deer I can understand taking the little fork horns but after that its time to become more selective.
     
  9. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

    Messages:
    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    I have 130 acres of mine I hunt. Eight guys, for the last 20 years have tagged out by the 2nd day of 1st shotgun season. We attempted and still do to QDM. Problem is the deer on my place go next door and next door and next door. All these places hunted by everyone with their own ideas, usually anything with a rack. We have wasted tags every year on gut shot does that we put down, because the fools don't want them next door and won't go after them.

    Does stay pretty close to where they are raised. The bucks on the other hand if they are worth their salt can have a territory they cover of up to five miles here. If you see him on your place today, he might be a mile away tomorrow. Consequently the prevailing attitude of hunters here, esp. the drive-in hunters is to kill anything, esp. not does.

    Because of problems with my group after 20 years, I will be the only one here to hunt this year. I take only does and let the racks walk. It will be interesting to see how they stack up in my woods this year without any pressure on them. There are some quality racks out there and if they stay on my place the mice will have a lot of calcium next spring when they shed.
     
  10. baitshop 2

    baitshop 2 New Member

    Messages:
    169
    State:
    georgia
    this is great >>>>>>i have been doing the same we are trying to let the bucks grow and the does ??????well lets say we have been loseing the battle :angry:we mainly bow hunt the area too. we hope to get a nice one or two this year i have been seeing a nice 150 to 160 class 10 pt the past three years....but what makes me mad about qdma is that the rule needs to be put in place that kids under 16 yrs of age can take one buck a year of there likeing ...that way they can have a great time,,,, we have been in the woods and have 6 to 8 bucks under us and no shooters acording to the rules ...i think kids should be able to get them a trophy of there choice.. just what i think...:big_smile:
     
  11. kkyyoottee

    kkyyoottee New Member

    Messages:
    754
    State:
    Iowa
    Iowa does have a unique set up kids are allowed into deer woods in late September it is called a youth season they are the only ones allowed to hunt must be 16 and under and is a great program
     
  12. derbycitycatman

    derbycitycatman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,296
    State:
    Kentucky
    Im curious of how many states allow the taking of more than one buck? Here in KY your allowed one buck unless your drawn for quota hunts. I think, some wma's will allow you to take a buck besides your normal state wide buck as well. Ive heard opinions that this has helped produce some trophies, seems good to me anyway. What do you all think?
     
  13. Kutter

    Kutter New Member

    Messages:
    5,379
    State:
    Arnold, MO
    Missouri has a Youth Hunt also, but I am not too familiar with it. It is around a week before the regular season. They may have more than one, I don't know. On the farm I hunt, new hunters are allowed to kill any buck, the first time.

    kkyyoottee, to answer your question, yes, we do have a muzzleloader season. If I recall, its early December.

    In Missouri, there are several options, if you desire. I could be off a bit, I only rifle hunt.
    Bow early season = 1 buck
    Buck season = 1 buck
    muzzleloader season = 1 buck
    Bow late season = 1 buck

    Does, now thats a whole different thing. Our doe tags run about $8 and you can keep buying them, as many as you want, up until the afternoon of the last day to hunt. I heard of a (contest???) where a hunter around Columbia killed over 75 does, all legal, in one fall here in MO. You can form your own opinion on that one, I have. Yes, the meat was all used by giving it away to friends or to the Share the Harvest Program, none was wasted. I can not be too judgmental, I kill a lot of does and end up only keeping 2 or so for myself. For me, it's in large part to help the farmer out who want to at least attempt to reduce the $50,000+ of crop damage each year.
    Derby, I do not know if it helps the QDM to thin the buck herd. I suppose it would depend on the amount of food in the area an such. I do know, as was said earlier by Postbeetle, I think, a lot depends on how big of an area is being QDMed. We have an advantage of 3200 acres, plus other farms in the area are for the most part, going to the same rules. Bucks do travel a lot during rut. The main reason we loosened our rules on buttons is that studies have found that buttons rarely grow up where they were born. They get run off by either their mother or bucks in the area.
     
  14. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

    Messages:
    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    I didn't know that about buttons being run off. Where do they go? Around here if they get run out they only could run into another set of the same problems. Also around here farmers are kinda, sorta, maybe, secretly, on the sly taking things in their own hands. Not me cause I don't have harvest able ground, it's all in Govt. Reserve. But these guys are getting fed up with deer and the same with turkeys. I've seen turkeys spread their wings and knock down corn in large blocks. When I see buzzards in numbers of 8-10 circling back timbers I know they aren't just eating dead possum. When we moved here in 85 it was bucks only, and they and does were few and far between. Now I have them eating the dirt around Nancy's horse's salt block 30' from the barn door. They killed over a thousand dollars of my newly planted arborvitae this last winter and those were off my back porch. The worst of it is vehicle/deer accidents. Dangerous, lethal and costly. The insurance companies are going nuts. Thank's John
     
  15. baitchunker

    baitchunker New Member

    Messages:
    1,689
    State:
    alabama
    i think we all agree that some form of managment is a must. as for a limit on bucks harvested...

    this will be the first year that the state of al has used a 3 buck per person rule. however we still dont have tags so who is going to keep up with it? most of the hunters i know only shoot mature bucks maybe 2 a year. we get all the meat we need from does and wild pigs. (if it can oink you better be shootin')
     
  16. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

    Messages:
    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    Are hogs difficult to kill? The only experience I have had with them was putting a .22 to their head when we were going to butcher. They went down and we stuck 'em, dipped and scrapped them and made meat. John
     
  17. baitchunker

    baitchunker New Member

    Messages:
    1,689
    State:
    alabama
    hell yes!!

    the guys i hunt with have made it a rule (other than bow huntin') that if you shoot at a hog it had better be a head shot. that way they either drop or walk away clean. i cant tell you haow many nights i have followed a blood river to a trickle to a ghost of a blood trail. i began shooting them in the head last year, when after i put not one but 2 139 grain accumag rounds out of my 270 into the shoulder and neck of about a 120# pig. it spun it got up i looked at the blood on its shoulder. (50 yds. away) and away it went. never found that one. they are extremely tough animals. even cleaning them is a pain. of course the meat IS worth it. as far as the "hunt" side of it...

    once you have hogs on your property they are not hard to find. they dont see or hear too well. but they can smell a fart at a half mile. we kill most of our hogs on the long walk to the deer stand.

    sidenote: they are every bit as exciting to watch in the wild as deer. however they spread havoc and pain to the land.
     
  18. derbycitycatman

    derbycitycatman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,296
    State:
    Kentucky
    Im of the mindset that the one buck rule has helped KY become a sleeper state for trophies. I believe we are in the top 5? Though if you get your quota hunts and go to the right WMA's you can get 5 bucks. I dont think most people take advantage of this and most opt for the one buck statewide. At least this spreads out the multiple killing of bucks in one area. My thinking is the more bucks the better chance of a big one. In my zone we are allowed as many does as you care to buy tags for. I think this is hurting the local herd though, I took 3 last year and Im not seeing the number of deer I used to. Doubt Ill do that again this year.
     
  19. JTR

    JTR New Member

    Messages:
    64
    State:
    virginia
    I feel if the deer is a trophy in your eyes then be proud and thankful you get an opportunity to take the deer. I enjoyed "the hunt" much more 20 years ago when we were all happy if someone got a deer, spike 4,5,6,8 or whatever. That 4pt on one side rule is the biggest bunch of BS. If I followed that rule I would have a few less heads on the wall to admire. A massive 6ptr is much more rare than a big 8 or 10 The first day of bow season means anything is a trophy in my book and after one under my belt I might let some walk, all depends on how I'm feeling that day. I come from the way of thinking that states I'll make my own descisions and you make yours just make yourself happy and stop worring about the other guy!!!!
     
  20. derbycitycatman

    derbycitycatman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,296
    State:
    Kentucky
    I know what you mean John, the most memorable buck was my first one. It was far from being a "trophy". To me it was my first trophy and I just wanted to get bigger ones as I go along. Anymore Im not too much into killing bucks unless they about make my heart stop. Let someone else have their trophy that Ive already got. One thing that does annoy me though is the guys who shoot the tiniest bucks Ive ever seen and then complain they never see any big ones. I bite my tongue but Im thinking you have to let the little ones go so they can grow into big ones.