The mysterious "Lowrance Man"

Discussion in 'Fish Finder Review and Study' started by tbull, Jan 8, 2009.

  1. tbull

    tbull New Member

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    3,318
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    I have now seen this on a post, and on a video from one of the sponsers to the BOC, someone saying the "Lowrance Man" showed them how to find cats on there graph (Lowrance). Anyone had this experience kind of enough to elaborate a little? I know catfisherman guard their secrets like Fort knox, but we never have traveling shows like that come through Cincinnati. Can anyone shed some light on this? Thanks bros:wink:
     
  2. RiverKing

    RiverKing Active Member

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    I would like to know the answer to that too...I hear people say you can tell if its a catfish on the fish finder..HOW??? I hear people say you can watch your screen and watch the fish hit the bait on the fish finder screen HOW???
     

  3. tbull

    tbull New Member

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    3,318
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    That is one thing I can say mine will do is show your rigs, and show fish checking it out especially when drifting. But its usually so chaotic on the boat while drifting I dont get to pay much attention to the graph, just watching the depth more than anything..:eek:oooh:
     
  4. biga

    biga Well-Known Member

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    i am a little busy today but i will try to post some screen shots of what it looks like when a fish hits your bait on a fish finder.. also check out the lowrance x135 aticle in the library that deerhunter01 did and he explains how to tell a scaled fish from a smooth skin fish...
     
  5. Mr.T

    Mr.T Active Member

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    They can't.

    While some fisherman can say with a good degree of confidence that a particular sonar return *might* be a catfish (based mostly on where the return is and what other "stuff" is also showing on the screen), nobody can guarantee it. Nor can they prove it. And if you can't prove it, you're just blowing smoke.

    Some say that a scaled fish makes a different return on the sonar than a smooth-sided fish like a catfish. But when you understand how sonar works, you realize that the return is primarily "seeing" the air in the fish's swim bladder; flesh, bones and scales are not much different in density than the water the fish is in, so the sonar beam doesn't bounce. The location of the fish within the "cone" that the sonar can see impacts the strength of the return significantly - a small fish in the center of the cone can make a bigger signature on the screen than a big fish near the edge.

    I hear folks here on the BOC all the time talking about how they marked a fish, set up on him and had him in the boat five minutes later. Baloney. They saw *something* on the graph, tossed their bait out and *something* hit it. Same something? Maybe, maybe not. But they can't prove it, at least not to my satisfaction.

    You can learn to use sonar to effectively find and target higher-percentage areas that will result in more fish in your boat - I do it all the time with a lot of success - but to say "that's a catfish right there, and I'm going to catch that fish" is just nonsense.

    You have to have your bait within the "cone" below the transducer. Try dropping your line right off the back of the boat some time and you can follow it all the way to the bottom. If it stays where the transducer can see it, you might be able to see a fish coming along to take the bait. Ice fishermen do this all the time; catfishermen not so much.
     
  6. tbull

    tbull New Member

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    All makes since, sounds like its time to get on the horn to lowrance and get the answer right from the source...:smile2::wink:
     
  7. Steve Douglas

    Steve Douglas Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    are you talkin bout the guy the other day that says he marks fish then sets up on them plus he can even tell them in the mud?
     
  8. JPritch

    JPritch New Member

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    I think Mr. T hit the nail on the head and explained better than I ever could. I don't buy the scale vs non-scale argument either.

    I have though setup on an arc a couple times and caught a fish. But yeah, I can't guarantee it was that arc that I caught. But at least identifying arcs and throwing in their general direction seems to produce at times.
     
  9. tbull

    tbull New Member

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    Possibly, not sure though, also another video from team catfish a guy says "see now that looks like a scaled fish"....Seems to be 50-50 on people that believe it or not. This is just a piece of an article i read about how sonar works, some may find it interesting that even though it mentions the swim bladder being a reason for a sonar return, it also mentions some other possibilities as well. Read for yourself:

    Note: The acoustical properties of the flesh of a fish are very near that of regular water. This means the propagation of sonar waves through a fish are almost indistinguishable from open water. What causes the echo return from a fish is the presence of scales, skin, skeletal structures, and predominantly a swim bladder filled with air. Both fresh and salt water species have these bladders which are filled with air for buoyancy compensation at different depths. Experience has shown that fish that travel depths very quickly like Tuna or Albacore have very small swim bladders which make them more difficult for sonar to obtain good echoes. However other game fish like Bass, Walleye, and even the baitfish they prey upon all have bladders which are detected by sonar sound waves.
     
  10. dougc

    dougc Active Member

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    1,711
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    Independen

    Still haven't figured out the Humminbird Marty?:big_smile:

    As far as marking fish 100 feet out to the side of the boat, never going over the top of them, setting up in front of them and catching them-I've seen it happen. Been in the boat, and caught one of the fish that we marked that way. Might not happen like that all the time, but it can happen.
     
  11. RiverKing

    RiverKing Active Member

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    Im glad someone said it, cause i never believed it either!!! :crazy:
     
  12. dinger66

    dinger66 New Member

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    north alabama
    jeremy leeach a lowrance pro staffer told me the info on the image detection , so you can take it or leave it . what i have been told . but the lung capasity of the fish will show up red and is deeper on some than others.
     
  13. spoonfish

    spoonfish New Member

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    3,780
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    Reminds me of the guys that set up a tree stand where theres no deer sign and sits in it all season wondering why he didnt get one. :confused2:

    Why set up to fish if your not showing any fish on your graph. Unless your setting up on structure of some sort your just hopeing that one will come by sooner or later.

    Is what your seeing a catfish or not? If someone can say 100% yes he's going to make a lot of money but by knowing there patterns you can make a pretty good guess.
     
  14. GMC FishHauler

    GMC FishHauler New Member

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    i really trust my Lowrance 17m, it shows me there is something that returns like a fish on my graph. I use it alot in the fall and winter, when the fish are deeper.
    I dont really use it much for finding fish in under 10' of water since the cone will be so small at that depth.
     
  15. biga

    biga Well-Known Member

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    2,112
    State:
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    you are really putting this info out here like it is a fact when in reality it is your opinion!!! if the sonar is seeing the air bladder then why do you see a log or other debris in the water without an air bladder lots of things show up as [fish] on sonar? the humminbird tech that i have been talking to while i get my electronics interlinked on my new boat says the same thing about the harder scaled fish giving a different return than the soft skin of a catfish and that is why you see the long strings on the end of the echos of a scales fish! you go and drift thru a school of fish with long echos and see how many cats you pull out of the school of carp or striper or bass whatever it may be!! then drift a school of suspended fish with good solid archs and see how many cats you catch unless you are in an area full of spoonbill there is a good chance they are catfish!!! instead of being so sure you know that you are 100% right and steering someone in the wrong direction take a chance that you might be wrong and you might learn somthing that makes you a better fisherman!
     
  16. Mr.T

    Mr.T Active Member

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    No, you marked *something* that looked like a fish, tossed your bait out and caught *a* fish.

    Sonar is just a snapshot of an instant in time (and a very thin snapshot at that), it's not a live underwater video. By the time you got the boat set up and got a line in the water, that fish you saw might have been in the same place or it might have moved away from the noise of the boat, or maybe it was never really there in the first place (rocks can look a lot like fish on side-imaging from a distance), or maybe it was an asian carp or a paddlefish.

    So you really don't know if the fish you caught was the "blip" you saw on the sonar or not. If it makes you feel better to think that you caught *that* specific fish, I suppose that's fine. But you can't prove you're right any more than I can prove you're wrong...
     
  17. Kutter

    Kutter New Member

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    5,379
    State:
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    For the most part, I have resigned myself to using sonar on the Mississippi River, to show depth only. In normal settings, it shows millions of fish under me. As I lower the sensitivity, it shows no fish. Everyone tells me it is because of all the trash in the water, leaves, sticks etc, etc.. How can it pick leaves up, as they obviously do not have bladders? What about the bottom? Is that air on the bottom that is causing the sonar to pick it up? Not trying to be argumentative, I just don't understand the theory of the air bladders when it picks up things that obviously do not have air in them. If it picks up density, couldn't scales have a different return than skin? Most of the fish I do pick up on, are suspended and not moving very much, so I can see trying to fish directly for them.
     
  18. tbull

    tbull New Member

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    3,318
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    This thread got a little heated I see...:eek:oooh:.......I believe whole heartedly that the sonar is picking up an air bladder, BUT...I also believe it is picking up more than that also. Previous poster had a great point, alot of newbies to fish finders keep that fish ID on sometimes, and it can throw back false signals, IE a stick, turtle, debris, as that cute little gold fish cracker looking fish picture. In theory its still producing the same sonar signal regardless if the fish ID is on or off right? So that being said, it would seem its scanning the surface of objects as well, and sending a false interpretation back that what you are seeing is a fish, so there has to be more to it than air bladders alone. What really confuses me is when the tutorials tell you that you get different colors back,from different strength of signals, so if I am marking a school of lets just say they "appear" to be good sized fish, all in the same location. Why are some yellow, others blue, green, etc?? On the Lowrance units, red is supposed to be a strong signal, sometimes you will get the big fat blue arch with red in the very middle, and sometimes a big fat yellow arch with red in the middle. Can anyone explain this in better detail?

    I am not going to get on anyone for there opinion, what I do like about this site is its full of different opinions, and lets face it, if we weren't curious what others are thinking or doing, we wouldnt be on this forum.
     
  19. Mr.T

    Mr.T Active Member

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    2,554
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    This is an internet message board. Everybody here is posting their opinion and nothing more, though some opinions are more informed than others. You can decide for yourself whether the author of any post you read is blowing smoke or not. If you think I'm just blowing smoke, that's fine. If you think I'm wrong, post *your* opinion instead.

    A lot of people don't really know how sonar works. This is a great introductory article if you want to read it: http://www.hightechfishing.com/lowrancetutorial.html - but I can sort of summarize here. Basically, sound waves are emitted into the water and bounce off of "things" in the water. How intensely the sound waves bounce (and thus, how how much of the sound wave gets back to the transducer and how it is depicted on your screen) is proportional to the difference in density between water and the "thing" the wave is bouncing off of - bigger difference, bigger return. Logs, leaves, bones and - yes - even scales are not the same density as the water they're in and all of them reflect sonar. Air (in a bladder or just a suspended bubble) is pretty much the most extreme difference in density that you'll find suspended in water and is going to reflect the most intense signal.

    Do scales reflect sonar signals? Absolutely. And so do the skin and bones.

    Do scales reflect *enough* sonar signal to appreciably change the shape of the return depicted on your display? Probably not.

    Why? Because the shape of the return you see on the screen is impacted by lots of factors besides whether the fish has scales or not, not least of which is the orientation of the sonar transducer (if it's not perfectly horizontal, one end of the return will be cut off), the speed of the boat (faster boat = smaller returns and less detail), the speed of the fish and direction of travel, the depth of the return, the size of the object making the return, the orientation of the object relative to the path of the boat (maybe the fish is sideways to the boat or maybe it's pointed the same way the boat is traveling), the position of the object in the sonar cone and on and on.

    If Lowrance or Hummingbird start advertising that their sonar can show the difference between a scaled and smooth fish, I might change my opinion. But that's not likely to happen.
     
  20. Sonny Kemp

    Sonny Kemp New Member

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    State:
    Tn
    Im certainly not an expert on anything,especially sonar,though I do have considerable experience in retail and wholesale business and I would think it would be a heck of an advantage to any sonar company to be able to advertise their units could tell the difference in scaled and non-scaled fish,to everyone that would possibly listen instead of a select few that might hear a rep.somewhere.I just wonder why it's not nationally advertised.You reckon they're selling all they can make?:confused2: