The Bad Penny has returned.

Discussion in 'Bubba's Outboards' started by AwShucks, Aug 3, 2006.

  1. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    Okay guys, same old 1971 50 HP Electrostat Johnson motor. Get it off the trailer, put key in ignition, raise warm start lever, turn key...it starts. Fiddle around a few minutes at idle, take off in slow motion to get pas no-wake zone. Finally, clear lake ahead. Pop the throttle to it and it takes off....runs forever. Head back to boat ramp, come off high speed and get to no-wake speed....put put into ramp. Put it in neutral and it dies. Dead... won't start w/o fast idle, won't start w/fast idle. Set about 15 minutes it will start and I can repeat the same senario. Just finished rebuilding carbs. Brand new tank and was checked for debri before putting gas in. Fuel filter is clean, fuel screen on motor is clean. What does the wizards of the outboard motor world think it may be?
     
  2. tspergin

    tspergin New Member

    Messages:
    867
    State:
    newark ohio
    could be a coil when hot after it cools off it will start,also could be a problem with the power-pac sounds like definatly in the electrical area
     

  3. catseeman

    catseeman New Member

    Messages:
    1,189
    State:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Yea sounds like the condenser is braking down when hot.
    While running fast it pumps a lot of water to cool itself. at idle the heat builds up in the engine.
    Check the thermostat for proper operation. was it discharging water out the weep hole?
    My 40 hp gave me fits with heat up problems. These were what i changed.
    While you have the fly wheel off check the points and coils.
     
  4. Bubbakat

    Bubbakat New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    McMinnvill
    That engine doesn't have points.
    Alright lawerence it can be a bunch of things so we are going to have to elemenate them one by one.
    When you rebuilt the carbs did you change the needle and seats?
    Also did you do a sink and link on the throtle linkage?

    I want you to put it in the water and before you do take the slincer off the front of the carbs and start it up and let it idle and then take two fingers and lay them inside the mouth of each carb, One at a time. If it smothers it down then it is getting the right fuel flow. If it speeds up that carb needs more work.
    After you have done this then we will test stator and the Ing charge coils and timmer base pluse the power pack.
     
  5. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    Okay, BubaKat, will do. May take a few days as I have a full schedule right now. Will post back in this thread after these tests.
     
  6. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    Got to it quicker than I thought possible. LOL Answers to the two questions are yes and yes.

    Took off the little round things, put two fingers over the bore - no effect on either carb. Removed the plate from in front of the two carbs and using a rag, both carbs did smother down.

    When FuzzFace and I took it to the lake, it started right up with the warm start (fast idle) lever in the upright position. After about 1 minute we put the lever down and it idled like a show room model. So, we took off. Same senario as yesterday...it would run like a son-of-a=gun until we put it back in neutral. Then it would die. Today, when we would raise the fast idle, it would start, but put the fast idle lever down it would die. The fast idle speed was about what the normal idle speed is supposed to be - somehow it had changed from when we first got to the lake and this point.

    FuzzFace said he just does not believe the problem is in the electrical system as it just starts too easy. He thinks its in the carbs, but we have done everything we know to do, or what we can find in the Clymer manual. It sure is frustrating.
     
  7. Bubbakat

    Bubbakat New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    McMinnvill
    Has it got a check valve in line any where. Is the tank plastic and new.

    Some where inbetween the fuel tank and the pick up tube inside the carbs you have a partial blockage. Look at the linkage and make sure it hasn't moved on you since setting it up. This afternoon I am going to post you a timmer base test. It may be fuel related but lets turn all stones.
    You can take a squirt bottle and squirt fuel into the carbs and see if that picks the idle back up when its down.
    I had a 85 do this once and it turned out to be the timmer base dropping out at low speeds and in netural. Have you cked to see if it might be flooding while its trying to idle.
     
  8. shortshank

    shortshank New Member

    Messages:
    389
    State:
    Oregon
    Lawrence it has to be electrical. I'm sure you must have checked the coils? Is the supply line to the carbs rubber? I'm thinking heat and colapsed line some where, heat and electrical failure. If the engine works cold under low idle and fast the only variation is the heat? Did you try fresh spark plugs after it wouldn't start? Got gas, got spark, it has to run or turn into a insurance claim..sinkers...target practice!
    Don
     
  9. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    Okay Bubbakat, we done all you said plus rebulit the fuel pump. Guess what...darn thing seems to work right now. The diaphram was sort of hard...now it is nice and limber. Probably gonna have to play with it a little more to get it exact, but at least I am not paddling my behind off. Thanks.
     
  10. YeeHaw

    YeeHaw New Member

    Messages:
    446
    State:
    Quincy Illinois
    my boss's lawn mower does that simmular thing. But it's only when you shut it off, you can't start it back up again for about 30 minutes. He says it's called vaper lock. and to start it up again the vapers have to go out of the lines and engine, which takes about 20-30 minutes. You may have some kind of simular problum.
     
  11. Bubbakat

    Bubbakat New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    McMinnvill
    Lawerence glad you got it back almost right any way. That pump has to limber because it flexes off the vaccume pulse. I am about to fire up the same type of engine on my project.
     
  12. Bubbakat

    Bubbakat New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    McMinnvill


    Evan you can't vapor lock an out board. If you got that kind of heat under that hood it would melt the engine.
     
  13. Bubbakat

    Bubbakat New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    McMinnvill
    Lawrence do you have a tach on that engine?
     
  14. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    No, but I am trying to find one. Any ideas? LOL
     
  15. Jesse168

    Jesse168 Member

    Messages:
    247
    State:
    Memphis, Tennessee
    Are you using a gas tank that has a vent valve on the cap? I have seen where the tank didn't get any air to replace gas used..when this happens a vacuum is created and it reaches a point where the pump isn't stronger than the vacuum. After letting the motor be off fo a while the valcuum decreases and the pump pickes up gas again.

    Try loosening you gas cap and see if problem continues.

    Jesse
     
  16. Bubbakat

    Bubbakat New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    McMinnvill


    I'll look and see if I have anything Lawrence. I know those control boxes didn't have the tach wires in the harness and when you get ready to hook one up holler out and I'll show you where to hook the pulse wire up and it is simple to do. I had to sit and think about it for awhile today but came up with the solution.
     
  17. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    My operator's manual said there was a wire in the control box for a tach. I just don't know where to even look for a tach. Tried the Johnson web site and couldn't find anything. Should be one somewhere. I feel I am half way blind to operate w/o a tach.
     
  18. Billy Jo

    Billy Jo New Member

    Messages:
    148
    State:
    Peoria , Arizona
    Cabela's #ST-01-2938 $54.99 Bass Pro # 20-541-173-00 $54.99 Get one and you will not be half in the dark any more and we will be safe on the water again..
     
  19. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    Thanks Bill. I'll definetly be picking one up. Got the motor running fine now. Apparently it was a stiff diaphram in the fuel pump.