Straight, right helical, or left helical?

Discussion in 'Bowhunting' started by smhmc6, Nov 30, 2008.

  1. smhmc6

    smhmc6 Member

    Messages:
    744
    State:
    Kansas
    I would like to get a jig to put vanes on my own arrows. I like doing things myself, and would like to start putting my own vanes on my arrows. What is best, a straight vane right helical or left helical? I imagine they have a place for everything, what is each best at? I guess left or right wouldn't matter, but I never really did any reasearch on it. If they are quick spins, do they need to be helical or does that make it that much better?

    I bought a new bow this past week and a dozen arrows to go with it. I got good shafts, and the archery pro convinced me that the blazer vanes were good. We got it paper tuned and the blazer vanes seemed to do pretty well in the range, but when I started shooting it outside into the wind not so much. It was bad enough that I could see with my naked eye that it took about 20 yards to stabilize. I think that part of it was probably that I need to get some of that new string creep out and re-tune it. But what are your opinions on the blazer vanes?
     
  2. Snagged2

    Snagged2 New Member

    Messages:
    6,252
    State:
    Verde Valley AZ
    Been awhile since I tuned archery tackle,

    It could be the vanes, but, maybe it is the knocking point.. low or high.

    Straight vanes are a bit faster If I remember, but, helical may stabilize more.
     

  3. katfish ken

    katfish ken New Member

    Messages:
    4,092
    State:
    Paintsvill
    If you are shooting at target range go strait, if hunting go helical. you want your arrow to spin as if it is tightening the threads on the broad head Or the broad head may end up being loose when it makes contact with the animal.

    Make sure the fletching is not hitting anything on launch check nock point for tightness and position. You may be torqueing the bow with your hand also would cause this problem. A sling on the bow hand to keep it from bouncing out of the hand and shooting open handed will cure that.
    Arizona E-Z fletch is a good fleching jig , it applies all 3 fletching at one time
     
  4. spoonfish

    spoonfish New Member

    Messages:
    3,780
    State:
    Warsaw, Mo.
    Blazers are good vanes.

    I would recomend a bitzenburger jig if your going to buy a fletcher. Ive had mine for 20 years or so and it still works great.

    Another option is the new airfoil FOB's
    I can tell you allthough they look weird you will be very happy with the results from them. You do need to be useing a fall away rest with these, a d-loop and certain arrows and nocks. Check the chart they provide.
    http://www.starrflight.com/

    Tune your arrows.
    It really doesn't matter what type of shaft you choose, just make sure the spine is correct for your bow set up. Make sure that your nocks and inserts are installed straight and there is no wobble in either. Attach your broadheads in the same manor. Make sure the heads spin true, without any hint of wobble. The best way to do this is with an arrow roller. Inserts can have a glue build up to one side and not be balanced. Simply heat them up and rotate them a few turns to even the glue if this happens.

    Make sure your bow is properly tuned for you. Do a search or better yet use your pro shop. Make sure all your accessories are on your bow, just as you will hunt with it. If you shoot with the quiver on, make sure it is on the bow and tune with one less arrow than you will carry in your quiver.

    Now paper tune your bow.
    I have copied this from one site on tuning.

    I recommend paper tuning at three different distance. I like 3, 10 and 15 feet. I strive to get perfect bullet holes at all three distances. If you can do this consistently you can be sure that your arrows are flying well. I paper tune with field points only. I personally don't see the need to paper tune with broadheads, the results are harder to read, and target materials are harder to come by. Once your bow is shooting bullet holes different ranges it's time to move on to the range.

    Sight your bow in with field points. Make sure your shooting form is good. Once this is done it's time to shoot your broadheads. I like to shoot a group of broadheads and a group of field points. I shoot at a distance of 10 yards farther than my self imposed maximum hunting distance. For me that would be group shooting at 45 yards. Shoot a group of broadheads and then a group of field points. If you have done everything correctly your broadhead group should be almost if not just as good as your field point group. Repeat several times to be sure
    of your results. When I mean just as good, I don't mean they should hit in the same place, but rather that the size of the groups should be close to the same. If they are not, you either have a problem with your rest/nock position ( general tune of the bow) or a problem with the arrows ( either spine issues, arrows with some wobble to them, or not enough fletching/helical to control
    the arrow). Number each arrow, it is common to have one or two arrows that seem perfect in every way, but still will not group with the rest. If you find these, eliminate them from your hunting arrows. It takes some time to get 6 to 8 perfectly flying arrows with broadheads. Just
    shoot each and every broadhead/arrow combination you intend to hunt with, those that group well put to the side, those that don't you can play around with trying different heads on different arrows until they all or at least most of them group with the other arrows.

    You do not need broadheads and field points to group together, although I admit it is nice.
    The most important thing is that your broadheads group and fly well. You can always move your sights. I know there is a lot of debate on this subject, but I am not going into it here. There
    are also other methods of tuning such as bare shaft and group tuning, These are all useful, but the purpose of this article is to give you the simplest way to get fixed blade broadheads shooting accurately. It is mostly for the beginning bowhunter who may be feeling confused or
    frustrated at all the information floating around.

    (Might add dont forget to use your quiver full of brodhead arrows minus 1 while your doing this if you plan to use a quiver while hunting) Good luck with the new bow!
     

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  5. flathead willie

    flathead willie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,241
    State:
    Virginia
    What kind of fletching twist you use is determined by what type of rest you have , in some cases. I shoot both strait and right hand twist with my recurves and compounds, but the right hand twist doesn't work too well on my left handed recurve, just the right handed ones. Stabilizing arrows can get involved. Once you have a good release and form, the main issues are proper tuning, spine weight, and vanes. With spline weight and everything else the same, if you reduce the size of the vanes, then you have reduced the drag on the arrow, which in turn can affect how long it takes for the arrow to stabilize. (i.e. If i switched to a smaller vane, then I would probably go to a stiffer shaft.) The faster the twist on the vanes, the faster an arrow tends to stabilize. It's all just a balancing act that you will have to experiment with until you find the combination that works for you. Take it to a place with a paper tester. Most stabilization problems can easily be worked out when you see what's going on with the paper. Good luck!
     
  6. smhmc6

    smhmc6 Member

    Messages:
    744
    State:
    Kansas
    Thanks for all the advice. I'm not a novice archer, I've been bowhunting for several years and I shoot with good form. I have never videoed myself I guess, but when I'm practicing I always concentrate on the fundamentals. I've always had all this stuff done for me at the pro shops and I guess I never payed enough attention. I'd love to get into doing all this stuff myself, I think it would be a fun hobby.

    As far as the rest I'm shooting, its a drop away so I shouldn't have to worry if my vains are helical. It does make sense though to make the arrow spin so that wants to tighten the broadhead instead of loosen it.

    When I bought the bow we went into the range to paper tune it. I shot several shots at 10 yards and it appeared to be pretty much perfectly tuned. I did read in one post that you should shoot it through paper at different distances and I think that is exactly what I need to do. I think shooting into the wind probably magnified the problem the other day, but it appeared that it took about 10-15 yards to stabilize. I bet if I were to move that paper stand in a little closer and shoot through it, I would be able to fine tune it a little better.

    I do wonder a bit though if I should shoot it a whole lot before I tune it again though. Just to break it in and get that string creep or twist out a bit. You all know more than I do on the subject, but I could see how the tuning would be affected if the only thing touching the arrow is the string (drop away rest) and the string still wants to twist a little bit.
     
  7. CatfishHateMe

    CatfishHateMe New Member

    Messages:
    669
    State:
    Il
    just a forewarning... ive heard that quickspins are horrible vanes. my cousin bought them and he said they sucked, and he said they were also one of the cheapest made and cheapest feeling vanes hes ever seen. i shoot blazers with the right off set. i they shoot true each time and i love them. best money ive put in my bow with no doubt in my mind.
     
  8. ozzy

    ozzy New Member

    Messages:
    3,936
    State:
    Lost Wages
    So what bow did you get? Curious minds want to know.
     
  9. flathead willie

    flathead willie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,241
    State:
    Virginia
    What kind of shooting do you intend to do? That can affect what style and twist you want in your fletching, also. I have sets with feathers, vanes, right hand, strait, three fletched, four fletched. I got a Jo-Jan fletching jig so I can change them whenever I need to, six at a time.
     
  10. smhmc6

    smhmc6 Member

    Messages:
    744
    State:
    Kansas
    Ha, I guess I forgot. Its a redhead kryptic (I was told it was made by bow tech and its very similar to the diamond black ice), true glow sights, trophy taker drop away rest, s coil stabilizer, sling, d loop, peep sight, bowjacks string silencers, removable quiver, and its shooting the redhead carbon max 2 arrows with blazer vanes (I was told they were the same shafts as the carbon express maxima's) tipped with muzzy 100 grain mx-3's. Shoots fast and quiet, real real smooth. I had it set at 62 pounds because thats what my old bow was set at, but with 80% let off I'm considering tightening it back up to 70 or atleast 65 cause its nothing to pull that back and hold it. I was shooting an older proline bow, it was at least 10 years old probably older and I shot it pretty well. I'm pretty sure they went out of business a long time ago. This is probably mostly cause I was shooting a bit of a dinosaur before (still was pretty efficient at taking deer), but I'm really impressed with this bow. When I was sighting it in my arrows were touching each other at 20 yards and I could barely tell I had shot it, it is that smooth.
     
  11. smhmc6

    smhmc6 Member

    Messages:
    744
    State:
    Kansas
    I don't shoot competition or anything, I just hunt whitetails.
     
  12. ozzy

    ozzy New Member

    Messages:
    3,936
    State:
    Lost Wages
    Sounds like a great bow, I have the Kronik and love it so far. Mine is made by Diamond, it had a sticker with the Diamond logo and the specs of the bow on it.
     
  13. smhmc6

    smhmc6 Member

    Messages:
    744
    State:
    Kansas
    Yeah, those Kroniks are good bows too. Actually I bought mine the night before thanksgiving and they were closing right as the guy was getting done putting all the accessories on the bow. I had to go in thanksgiving morning to put the kisser button on, drop the poundage down to 62, get my draw length set, cut arrows, and get it tuned. My dad and I were bow hunting that morning (with my old bow) so he was with me when I went in to get everything set up... while we were waiting, he bought himself the Kronik. He likes it alot.
     
  14. spoonfish

    spoonfish New Member

    Messages:
    3,780
    State:
    Warsaw, Mo.
    Steve with you useing a drop away rest and a d-loop your set up will work great with the FOB's I posted earlier.
    http://www.starrflight.com/
    No need to buy a fletcher this way and they fly much better even in the wind.
     
  15. kennylee

    kennylee New Member

    Messages:
    271
    State:
    Missouri -
    I use a 1 deg. offset, target shooting 2" vane & hunting 4", in windy conditions all vanes are going to be affected.
    Using a drop away rest its not going to matter, the fletchings are going to clear the rest, so its what ever works for you.
    I'm not making trouble but, if your fletchings had to spin the same direction as your broadheads screw in, we would not be having this conversation, because as far as I know there are not left hand threaded insert or broadheads on the market.
    Also when you are grouping your broadheads it is best to use a 5 spot and only shoot 1 arrow per spot or you're going to be re-fletching your arrows when you shoot a tight group.
    Good luck and I hope you get it worked out.
     
  16. bownero

    bownero New Member

    Messages:
    3,137
    State:
    Hastings, Ne.
    I wouldn't consider Quickspins horrible vanes at all. I've used the Quickspins for 2 years and have great results. To me they are quieter and offer a higher spin rate. They seem to be more accurate than conventional fletching. The only setback I have experienced is they have a tendency to fall off when target shooting. This is caused by not properly cleaning the arrow before applying the vanes to the arrow. They bend somewhat, but a hair dryer to warm them up, will get them back into shape. I used the 4", but now I'm shooting the 2" Speed Hunters by Quickspin.:wink:
     
  17. bownero

    bownero New Member

    Messages:
    3,137
    State:
    Hastings, Ne.
    Getting onto the fletching subject. I prefer the right helical. Not much helical, but enough to stabilize the arrow on takeoff. Radical helical is overkill and can slow the arrow down at longer ranges.
     
  18. smhmc6

    smhmc6 Member

    Messages:
    744
    State:
    Kansas
    Just curious, Mark. Do you use helical with your quickspin vanes or would that be overkill since the vane itself is designed to increase spin. Kind of what I'm getting is that it is a balancing act between just getting enough spin to stabilize the arrow but not too much that you loose energy that would go into penetration power.
     
  19. bownero

    bownero New Member

    Messages:
    3,137
    State:
    Hastings, Ne.
    Hey Steve! Yes indeed. My Quickspins do have a slight right helical to them. The gentleman that fletches my arrows, likes this because it adds faster spin and downrange accuracy. Penetration is not an issue with my setup. All the animals, (deer), had complete pass throughs. 30 yds. was the longest shot, and that deer is the one pictured in my Avatar and Profile Picture. The Kenetic Energy I'm acheiving is close to 70 ft. lbs. That's a 430 grain complete arrow moving at 270 fps. It's a deer killing setup!!:big_smile:
     
  20. Little Bill

    Little Bill New Member

    Messages:
    71
    State:
    Louisiana
    I shoot 2" blazer vanes with a right offset. A friend of mine was getting ready for a trip to Illinois and was shooting regular 4" vanes and was shootin 20, 30, 40, and 50 yards with four pins. I told him if he would let me change his fletchings to blazers he would shoot mutch flatter and more accurately. He let me change them out to blazers. After shooting at 20 yards with excellent results we moved to 30 yards. I told him to aim with the 20 yard pin and he didn't and aimed with his 30 resulting in shooting at the tip top of his target. So he shot the top pin and dead centered the bullseye at 30. His sight is now set with three pins shooting 20/30 top 40 middle and 50 bottom pin. He is shooting a Hoyt set at 70# and 26" draw. That's pretty flat shooting for a 26"draw.This was a major comfidence booster and he harvested his largest deer to date with that set up. Shoot blazers with a right offset, in other words your arrow should be pointed to the left in your fletching jig before glueing them on. Good Luck!!