SPEED vs WEIGHT

Discussion in 'Bowhunting' started by flathead willie, Oct 15, 2006.

  1. flathead willie

    flathead willie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,241
    State:
    Virginia
    I've been reading a lot of posts on here about what bows, arrows, and broadheads people shoot. I seems like more and more people are buying into theory that a good bow has to be super fast. This leads to arrows and broadheads being super light. I think the Archery industry is doing a great job getting people to buy all their little bells and whistles. In my opinion, much of the stuff they are selling is just junk, and really not neccessary for the average deer hunter.
    I am a firm believer in weight over speed when it comes to arrows. Especially after seeing a guy I hunted with a few years ago switch from his standard compound bow to an over-draw and carbon arrows. Sure it shot good and the arrows went 4,000 feet a second or some such crap....but he never found the first four deer he shot with it because of bad penetration.
    I put more stock in good hunting practices rather than hi-tech equipment. I think the current trend in gimicks has taken away fron the sport of hunting. Before the late 20th century, there were millions of deer killed with home made bows and stone or basic metal broadheads. It still works today if applied properly.
    I have been bowhunting for 31 years and have taken over 150 deer with a bow, (128 with the same recurve I killed my first with). I shoot 2117arrows, 31 inches long, with 145 grain Bear Super Razorheads. They are heavy arrows and I have to sharpen the heads myself, but for all these years they have been doing a great job. My arrows go less than 200 feet a second but I've found that if you do you scouting properly, most shots will be under 20 yards, and at that range, speed is not a factor. The arrow gets to the target in 1/3 of a second. Even at that "slow" speed, almost all my double lung shots are 'pass thru' shots. One shot on a deer that was faceing me went in under the base of the neck and exited under the rectum, a length-wise pass thru! I love heavy arrows!
    Unless you shooting deer at 40, 50, 60 yards I don't think speed is much of a factor and even then a heavy arrow will go deeper then a light one. It's simply a matter of hitting your target.
     
  2. samh

    samh New Member

    Messages:
    807
    State:
    Damascus,Arkansas
    Good post. I went from recurve to compound to cams and everything else try'n for the magic combination, there ain't any. Now I'm back to recurves, practice and patience. Sometimes us old dogs learn that all the new tricks ain't all they're cracked up to be.
     

  3. dougc

    dougc Active Member

    Messages:
    1,710
    State:
    Independen
    Willie, I'd still be shooting my old 2413 aluminum arrows if they weren't so hard to find anymore. It seems the manufacturers are going to all carbon. My old Reflex Express would shoot full length(29"), 490 grain 2413's at 260 fps. When I switched to carbon, I went with the heaviest ones I could find to keep the kinetic energy up. I do like to have the speed, but I want shock power also!
     
  4. vlparrish

    vlparrish New Member

    Messages:
    1,276
    State:
    Bedford, Kentucky
    I just started bowhunting in the middle of the high tech craze. I had a very minimal background with bowhunting before. But here is my take on carbon arrows. They are expensive. They are usually to narrow for a split rest like a tmhunter when shooting a heliflex arrow. With all that said, I still shoot carbon arrows. Why, because they are strong. You can flex them and they will return to their original straightness, unlike a bent aluminum. I have seen aluminum get bent on impact of a practice target and also on the extraction of a practice target. Also The penetration I get from my carbons so far has been very satifactory. I have two deer kills with my bow and both were threw and threws, double lung. You can only go threw the deer once in a shot, so I don't think more penetration is required. When I shot at a practice target I had a few old heavy aluminums and a few carbons. The carbons seemed to penetrate as good or better, so maybe the faster arrow does have good penetration also. Also with the lighter and faster carbon arrow. I have one sight pin and it is set at thirty yards. The difference in drop from zero to thirty yards is so slight that I don't require pins under that yardage. I am also a novice bowhunter so I am not planning on shooting any more distance than that. Vern
     
  5. flathead willie

    flathead willie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,241
    State:
    Virginia
    I have found that the cheaper aluminum arrows will bend very easily. I shoot Easton XX75 because they have a patented process that makes their arrows harder to bend. I tried Gamegetters once and like you said, they bend on impact. I am useing a few arrows now that have already been used to kill deer and they are still straight.
     
  6. mobowhtr

    mobowhtr Member

    Messages:
    102
    State:
    MO
    I went to carbon 3 or 4 years ago and really like them. You can buy carbons up to at least 12 gpi. I like to have my arrow and head around 450 gr and almost alway get a pass thru. Faster arrows mean flatter trajectory, and though most of my deer have been between 3 and 20 yds I have shot 5 over 20 and 1 over 40. This is not to say I oppose aluminum, I have killed up to 8 deer with the same aluminum arrow before I lost it somewhere on the other side of the deer, and have lost carbons the same way. While I don't like light shafts, carbon is available with ample weight to do the job.
     
  7. center12

    center12 New Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    State:
    KS
    My shoulder has recovered enough to allow me to bowhunt again this season:big_smile:. I'll be using a 45# recurve with 450 gr. carbon arrows(carbon express with weight tubes). I feel that carbon arrows in general penetrate better than aluminum arrows, carbons are smaller in diameter than aluminums causing less friction in going through the target and carbons recover from paradox faster meaning they will hit the target with all their energy squarely behind the broadhead(they also don't flex as much as aluminum's on impact). Most of this don't mean squat if your running 70# of KE, but is very important to lighter set-ups. Even when I hunted with a compound I shot heavier carbons, quieter and less stressful on the equipment as more energy is transferred into the arrow. Just my take on it. Good luck and good hunting.
     
  8. center12

    center12 New Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    State:
    KS
    Went and got some new arrows yesterday, Carbon Express's Carbon Rebels..........weight 10.7 gr. per inch:crazy: .

    29.5" arrow, nock, feathers, 100 gr. brass insert and a 125 gr. Phantom head give me an arrow over 500 gr., lost the little add on weight for the scale that lets me go over 500 gr.(560gr. adding them up on the calc.). This ain't going to be a fast arrow off a 45# recurve but it will hit with some authority:big_smile: . Been shooting real good to 20 yards and that's all I need.

    Weight vs. speed.................belive I'm on the weight side of the discussion:smile2: .
     
  9. dougc

    dougc Active Member

    Messages:
    1,710
    State:
    Independen
    Charlie, when are you going to try your new setup? I've been a little slow this year getting around. Got to get out soon!
     
  10. wolfman

    wolfman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,163
    State:
    Triadelphia, WV
    Name:
    Walter Flack
    I prefer weight and knock down power over speed. Still shooting the same old bow for over 15 years. Only set at 64 lb draw weight but puts them down quickly. I dont shoot over 30 yards and really dont need the extra speed in my opinion.
     
  11. center12

    center12 New Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    State:
    KS
    Doug, going to head out as soon as the "special" early rifle season is over here(Monday), I'm a public land hunter and don't really enjoy being out there when the rifles are around. My buck tag is Muzzleloader so will just chasing does with the bow this season, I'm sure to see the buck of a lifetime with only a doe tag. Always wanted to get a turkey with a bow so this will be a good time to try that. With all this rain, sitting in a blind don't sound too bad.

    Took out the 100 gr. insert, 475gr. will just have to be enough arrow:eek:oooh:
     
  12. blackhorse83

    blackhorse83 New Member

    Messages:
    1,008
    State:
    missouri
    I have been shooting the same bowvfor about 5 years now and have shot all kinds of arrows. I chose to shoot carbon because I wanted to try them, I don't think that arrow weight or speed is the entire answer. My son kill his first deer with a 35# pull PSE bow years ago with 16" arrows and 75gr. broadhead, I still think the thing that matters most is putting it where it needs to be. Although must deer shots today get a pass thru, is this all that important? If a broadhead goes in 6'' and a deer take off and that broadhead starts rotoruting around in there if it is where it needs to be you will find that deer in a short order. Just my opinion.
     
  13. flathead willie

    flathead willie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,241
    State:
    Virginia
    In Virginia a 35# bow is illegal to hunt with and broadheads must have a 7/8 cutting diameter. You're right the important thing being able to hit your mark and a pass thru is not the only deadly shot but it does leave a much better blood trail making the deer easier to find after the shot.
     
  14. blackhorse83

    blackhorse83 New Member

    Messages:
    1,008
    State:
    missouri
    When Tony shot this deer it was years ago, I'm not sure if there is a weight law in Mo. now or not but there wasn't then, and the broad head was 7/8 dia. the cool part of this hunt itwas his first hunt, first day, and he had fell asleep and when he woke up the deer was right in front of him, he nocked the arrow and then it fell off the rest before he shot. Some times it's just your turn!!!
     
  15. Paraguayguy

    Paraguayguy New Member

    Messages:
    1,650
    State:
    Virginia
    I messed my shoulder and back up from a fall off a ladder 10 years ago. I gave up bow hunting. Now that crossbows are legal in VA I am back in the game. I bought a used Horton on ebay. I scoped it and shoot carbon arrows with 100 grain broadheads. I have hunted with it 5 days and killed three deer from 7 to 39 yards. In all cases the arrows went through the deer. Double lung shots are great but holding low for a heart shot is the best. They don't make it 20 yards. I shot a 8 point buck though the lungs and he ran a good two hundred yards into a huge thicket. He didn't leave any blood trail. There are so many deer on this property, following tracks in the leaves is almost impossible. He was with 20 plus does when I stuck him. It was early in bow season and close to 80 degrees. We found him the following morning and he was already rotten. From now on, I am only shooting broadside for the heart. If I shoot under the deer and miss, what the heck, I get to hunt him again and not have to worry about losing him at night. I notice that with a 50 caliber powerbuilt out my encore, nothing runs too far. Hooray muzzle loader season opens Saturday.