solar and lunar tables voodoo?

Discussion in 'All Catfishing' started by rasmotherman, Apr 25, 2009.

are there anything to the solunar tables?

  1. these tables are usefull tools in forecasting fish activity

  2. they have no validity and are useless

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  1. rasmotherman

    rasmotherman New Member

    Messages:
    1,043
    State:
    salineville, ohio
    do you guys believe that these tables are a usefull tool or just some voodoo crap they are trying to sell to us?
     
  2. lforet2002

    lforet2002 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,534
    State:
    Tennessee
    Personally I think they work..Especially barometric pressure plays a big roll in the way fish bite and lunar phases effect tides so if your fishing where there is a tide lunar phases definitely effect the bite..
     

  3. tnvol

    tnvol New Member

    Messages:
    469
    State:
    Clarksvill
    I agree. I don't pay attention to them though. I'm going to be fishing anyway so it doesnt matter. lol My grampa did though and I know people that swear by them.
     
  4. rasmotherman

    rasmotherman New Member

    Messages:
    1,043
    State:
    salineville, ohio
    i never use them to decide if im fishin or not thats for sure, only my wife can make that decision. lol. i will use it to figure when a good time for a trip is. i know a site that has a free table. pm me if you would like it
     
  5. john catfish young

    john catfish young New Member

    Messages:
    3,070
    State:
    Kentucky
    I have followed the solunar tables for years and it has proved itself to me time and time again....especially landing the "big ones".:cool2:
     
  6. Mickey

    Mickey New Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    14,592
    State:
    Illinois
    I agree with John on this. I know they work. The reason most people don't use them is because they don't understand them. You have to try and prove them to yourself.
     
  7. Arkansascatman777

    Arkansascatman777 New Member

    Messages:
    7,782
    State:
    AR
    Do they work, ABSOLUTELY. Do I use them ABSOLUTELY NOT:smile2:. If I ever live long enough to retire I will use them extensively, but for now I have to go when I'm off work good fish day or not. We still manage to find some actively feeding fish most days.
     
  8. ccat

    ccat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,745
    State:
    Fayetteville Ar
    Solunar tables work about as much as horoscopes do. They work in luring us into to taking the time to reading them. I have cast, set the hook and removed a fish in the same time it takes to read on of those.
    Actually, I think there is something to them, but I am with 777, I am fishing whether the solunar table says to fish or not.
     
  9. ChannelCatBen

    ChannelCatBen New Member

    Messages:
    179
    State:
    Minnesota
    I think that the tables are just one little piece of a great big puzzle. Are they valid? Yes, but they aren't the only factor. Barometric pressure, I think, is a bigger factor, along with water temp and time of year, amount of daylight, precipitation, baitfish movement, what baseball game is on the radio, wind speed and direction, and whether or not I can get out to fish.

    I think it would be interesting to put together a detailed analysis of all these factors over the course of several years, but I just don't have the time. I fish when I can, where I can, and hope they're biting on the bait I'm throwing.
     
  10. jer__man

    jer__man New Member

    Messages:
    34
    State:
    Kingwood Texas
    I think they are a tool to use just like the weather forecast and many other variables. Sat (4/25) was suppose to be one of the best days of the month to fish. But the 30 mph wind and 3 foot white caps kept me off the water. But moon phase definitely effects all creatures big and small.
     
  11. spawnallica

    spawnallica New Member

    Messages:
    55
    State:
    Texas
    The tables will work, and if you fish during the peaks times you can bring in tons of fish. The barometric pressure is the most important factor! Even if it's a great (solunar) day to fish during peak times but the barometric pressure is high, you might not catch a thing. The fish will be heading to deeper water, or they will tuck away in cover. With the pressure high, it will be a little more challenging to coax them to bite. Your best bet is to take the opportunity to go for a little larger fish.
     
  12. jolie

    jolie New Member

    Messages:
    828
    State:
    PA
    I would rather spend a near fortune on a good pattern that finds some rough coorelation that indicates whether a fishing trip is a skunkish snoozer or whether it is an exciting action packed.

    to this end; I keep very good notes; I note where I fish, when, with what and exactly how many big, small fish I catch (even bites)...

    I keep a mean notebook! But so far the big Ah-Ha! has eluded. nothing has proved this MORE to me than the supposedly useful solunar tables. Now, here is my bind; I have all this data for the last 1.5 years; but solunar tables are copyrighted, and pricy numbers and so far as I can tell you can't even buy the solunar (or Astro) scores of days gone by..

    so how can I disprove that solunar tables Don't work if I can't give you an entire years worth of data against it solunar 'score'?

    I can give you % moon illuminated from the US naval obseratory. This is a major Part of the Solunar calculation (that and maybe psychic readings:smile2:)

    so I unveil to you the years worth of catches and bites (reduced to a single score; = 1/((big fish+1/2littlefish+1/4bites)/hour)*10... versus phase of the moon.

    ... Attrocious correlation! the flat trend line means basically at any moon phase I did no better on average than any other mooon phase.

    Well you say! thats for all fishing and all places and giving how many kinds of fish I try to catch in all the different places; its a good point. Over the summer 08; I fished mostly ONE place for ONE Thing at nearly the same time for 3 months in a row

    thats the second graph:smile2: again attrocious correlation.

    IMHO; go call up those psychic telephone ladies; they know better what the fishing is like!
     

    Attached Files:

  13. jolie

    jolie New Member

    Messages:
    828
    State:
    PA
    Ok, I'm between Amused to almost Frustrated.

    between tales of Nessie and 300# catfish; there lies this curious solunar connection deal. Supposedly it was a Proven affect by a scientist in the 1930's.

    of course, He was only referencing clams..an animal that has dang good reason to be cautious and right about the affects of tides. no doubt all those clams that don't check their solunar tables carefully get eaten.

    and everywhere in the fishing world you have people telling you this and that. some of this is common good sence; some of is it Industry hype. Call it what you will but psycicks are much less superstitious than fishermen and I swear some people decide whether they fish or not based on whether they roll to one or the other side of their bed in the morning.

    thus this confluence of facts, have elevated this unrelated biological fact to major importance. and no doubt the solunar advocates are out there Ready to tell me this is hard science and NOT mere superstition.

    PROVE IT!

    I'm a scientist. A chemist, in fact. and I know my stuff when it comes to statistics.

    If in fact, Solunar influences mean a good fishing trip on some days and not others; get you diaries together and show me that your solunar predictions actually show some kind of influence.

    If In fact, you can't; admit it! your superstitious.

    You had a good day (it happens to the best of them) and suddenly you remember the solunar table said it was the best in the month. Instant and most than religious believer; and maybe you go so far as to ONLY fish at the best days and the best times (thus any big fish you catch HAS to be caught on the best solunar day and time, doesn't it?)

    I have spealed some minor statistics in high water; but it least there is basis to believe it; Predators and bottom feeders are bound to (statistically) at least be more active during high waters as just a pavlov's reaction to more food in the river. and barometric pressure is also loosely tied to this. Remember if you're on a river; lower barometric pressure is rain somewhere and that might make a subtle difference.

    but the solunar thing? is to much for me to believe. An ocean clam is not a catfish. oceans clams need to open in tides and closed as much as possible to survive. There seems no reasonable affect in the food supply during moon, or sun position.

    anyway I'm hoping that Someone on this site, Tries to PROVE it, or explain More of it; If I can see it the data- I'll read it more carefully than the bible. anyway, I'm not from Missouri, but some folks on here are and they should adopt its straitforward practical advice.
     
  14. rasmotherman

    rasmotherman New Member

    Messages:
    1,043
    State:
    salineville, ohio
    Solunar Forecast: Solunar Theory *

    In 1926 John Alden Knight postulated some folk lore he picked up in Florida and proceeded to attempt a refinement, giving it the name Solunar (Sol for sun and Lunar for moon). Knight compiled a list of 33 factors which influence or control day-to-day behavior of fresh and salt-water fish. Everything was taken into account that could possibly have any bearing on the matter.
    One by one the factors were examined and rejected. Three of them, however, merited further examination. They were sun, moon and tides.
    Surely the sun could have no effect since it’s cycle was the same day after day, whereas the observed activity periods of fish were apt to be present at most any time of the day or night. The moon had already been weighed and found wanting. Tides? Surely there could be no tidal movement in a trout stream.
    But the fact remained, however, that the tides had always guided salt-water fishermen to good fishing. Could it be that the prompting stimulus lay in the influence of the sun and moon which cause the ocean tides, rather than the actual tidal stages or flow?
    When the original research was being done only the approximate time of moon up - moon down were considered. Gradually, it became evident that there were also intermediate periods of activity that occurred midway between the two major periods. Thus the more evident periods were called MAJOR PERIODS and the two intermediate periods, shorter in length, were called MINOR PERIODS.
    One convincing experiment was when Dr. Frank A. Brown, a biologist at Northwestern University, had some live oysters flown to his lab near Chicago_Oysters open their shells with each high tide, and Dr. Brown wanted to see if this was due to the change in ocean levels or to a force from the moon itself. He put them in water and removed them from all sunlight. For the first week they continued to open their shells with the high tides from their ocean home. But by the second week, they had adjusted their shell-openings to when the moon was directly overhead or underfoot in Chicago.
    Knight first published his tables in 1936. Then, and today, one must calculate the precise times from each table taking into account the geographic location (east or west) of a base point (Time Zone), and adjusted for Daylight Savings Time when appropriate. Our Solunar Calendar and Predictions are rounded to the nearest minute.
    An example of the deviation in time in a particular state would be Texas here the times from El Paso on the western border and Hemphill on the eastern border is 51 minutes (Hemphill is 51 minutes earlier than El Paso).
    PROVING THE THEORY

    To substantiate the theory, insofar as fish are concerned, John Alden Knight attempted a systematic inquiry to acquire complete details surrounding the capture of record catches. Both individual large fish ... and large numbers.
    He examined approximately 200 of these catches. Over 90 percent were made during the dark of the moon (new moon) when the effects of of the periods appear to be greatest, and, more important, they were made during the actual times of the Solunar Periods.
    Initially, only the behavior of fish was considered. During 1935 to 1939 Knight made extensive studies of game birds and animals. As had been suspected, these also responded to the prompting stimulus of the periods.
    PEAK DAYS

    It is now known that the sun and moon are the two major sources of the astral energies that daily bombard the Earth and all her life forms. The closer they are to you at any given moment, the stronger the influence. The day of a NEW or FULL MOON will provide the strongest influence in each month.
    PEAK MONTH

    June always has more combined sun-moon influence than any other month. During a FULL MOON the sun and moon are nearly opposite each other and very few minutes pass without one or the other being in our sky. During a NEW MOON, both bodies are in near-perfect rhythm traveling the skies together with their forces combined. Because of the interaction between the many lunar and solar cycles, no two days, months or years are identical.
    PEAK TIMES

    When a period falls within 30 minutes to an hour of sunrise or sunset you can anticipate great action!
    When you have a moonrise or moonset during that period the action will be even greater.
    And, finally, when the above times occur during a NEW or FULL MOON, you can expect the best action of the season!
    LENGTH OF PERIODS

    Every fisherman knows that fish do not feed all the time. He knows, also, that for some reason fish often go on the feed and take most any offering, be it live bait or artificial. This sort of thing happens, according to John Alden Knight (the originator of the theory) during a period. To be sure, fish usually feed actively at sunrise and sunset, but generally, the real fishing of the day is at the “odd hour” feeding periods. If the weather and feeding conditions are favorable the fish will be active for one to two hours.
    BEST FISHING DAYS

    For those fishermen who enjoy fishing at sunrise and sunset here are the absolute best dates to be on the water at your favorite spot.
    These are the Major or Minor Periods that fall near the times of Sunrise or Sunset during a Full or New Moon. It has been documented that when this condition exists fish will bite on anything they see or smell. Limits are almost guaranteed provided there are fish in the vicinity.
    It’s no secret that fish and game tend to feed during dawn and dusk (sunrise and sunset). What amplifies the activity is the effect of a moonrise or moonset plus the specific monthly periods of New (dark) and Full (light) Moons.
    When the times coincide with a moon-rise or a moon-set the action can be spectacular.
    Finally, a change in the local weather coinciding with the periods will further enhance the activity.
    WATCH THE WEATHER

    For best results the tables must be used intelligently. Every day will not show a clear-cut reaction to a period. In the case of fish, barometric fluctuations, particularly when the trend is down, often ruin fishing. All wildlife knows what to expect of the weather, and any bird, animal or fish can sense the approach of a storm. Cold fronts moving through drive all fish deeper and render them inactive.
    Adverse temperature, abnormal water conditions, all sorts of things will offset the effects of periods. However, every sportsman knows that it is beyond all reason to expect good fishing or hunting every day. The theory will point the way to the best in sport that each day has to offer, but in no sense is it a guarantee.
    WATCH THE BAROMETER

    Intensity of activity also varies from day to day, according to conditions in general. If the barometer happens to be steady or rising, if the temperature is favorable (15 degrees higher than water temp) then long and active response to a period can be expected.
    WATCH THE MOON

    Another thing to remember in dealing with the periods is that solunar influence will vary in intensity according to the position of the moon. The times of new moon (the dark of the moon), and there is no moon in the sky, is the time of maximum intensity.
    Ocean tides reflect this intensity in their magnitude. This maximum will last about three days, and wildlife respond with maximum activity. Thereafter the degree of intensity tapers off until it is at its minimum during the third quarter phase of the moon.
    Salt-water anglers argue that tides have a greater influence on fish feeding habits than the moon itself. It must be understood that the tides are governed by the phases and transit of the moon. Certain marine phenomena occur with precise regularity during the lunar month and solar/lunar cycle.
    Research has shown that a natural day for fish and many other animal species differ from our own. Their biological clock appears to coincide with lunar time, which is the time that it takes for the moon to reappear at a given point during one complete rotation of the earth (an average of 24 hours and 53 minutes. This is called a Tidal Day and explains why the ocean tides are about an hour later each day - and why most fish, fresh water species included, will feed up to an hour later (in relation to our solar clock) each day.
    CALCULATING THE TIMES

    The key to accurate Solunar Times is the ability to chart the relative solar and lunar positions with respect to a particular location. The major periods coincide with the upper and lower meridian passage of the resultant gravitational (tidal) force.
    The minor periods occur when these forces are rising or setting on either horizon, i.e., the right ascension of the resultant force and the local sidereal time vary by 90 or 270 degrees. The major periods occur when these forces are at 0 and 180 degrees apart.
    AREA COVERED BY THE TIMES

    The times produced are known as EQUILIBRIUM TIDE TIMES, i.e., the times of low and high tides if the Earth were completely covered by water. Our program calculates the solar and lunar positions with an accuracy of .25 degrees allowing accuracy to be within 1 minute in time. The times will change one minute for each 12 miles east or west of the base point.
    There is one day each month (near the last quarter of the moon) on which there is no moonrise. This is normal and occurs because the moon’s average period between two rises and sets is approximately 24 hours and 50 minutes. Thus there will always be a day on which a moonrise (and a Solunar Time) will not fit. Note also that moonrise can occur at any time during the day or night.
    The quantities required for computing the times are eliptic longitudes of the Sun and Moon, the right ascension (RA) of the moon, and the local sidereal time of the observer's position.
    CONCLUSION

    It should go without saying that if there are no fish or game present, you will not be successful. It is always to plan your days on the water or in the field so that you are where the game is most likely to be during the periods.
    *Moonup~Moondown ... Library of Congress #72-93383
     
  15. rasmotherman

    rasmotherman New Member

    Messages:
    1,043
    State:
    salineville, ohio
    World Record -
    Freshwater Catfish
    Species: Mekong Catfish
    Weight: 646 lbs.
    Length: just under 9 feet
    Girth: unknown
    Angler:
    Caught at: Mekong River at
    Tailand, China
    Bait/Lure:
    Method: Netted
    Record Date: May 2005 View attachment 60378
     
  16. SSgt Fishslayer

    SSgt Fishslayer New Member

    Messages:
    1,241
    State:
    south carolina
    i dont follow them as religiously as some, but i have noticed that my catch ratio seems to go down during the 3/4 to full moon phase. out here in the desert a full moon will make it fairly bright at night. seems to me like they are just not as active during a full moon phase as they are during a new moon phase.
     
  17. jolie

    jolie New Member

    Messages:
    828
    State:
    PA
    Ha you got me rick.:smile2:

    I mean blue cats. nonetheless, good comback!:wink:
     
  18. spawnallica

    spawnallica New Member

    Messages:
    55
    State:
    Texas
    Good grief:roll_eyes: Just put your line in the water and keep track of it then...
    No one has to prove anything to you!
     
  19. rasmotherman

    rasmotherman New Member

    Messages:
    1,043
    State:
    salineville, ohio
    i was looking for a ralistic pic of nessie but cant find one that doesnt look like my 4 year old photo shopped it
     
  20. john catfish young

    john catfish young New Member

    Messages:
    3,070
    State:
    Kentucky
    The only thing I will say about the solunar tables is that they definetly work if followed correctly. I dont pay too much attention to this day or that day supposed to be the best fishing days out of the month....because any day you can go fishing is a good day to go fishing.

    What I do find highly accurate is the time tables given in the "original solunar tables". This table breaks down the best times during everyday that fish and game are most likely to be active and feeding. It is broken down into a "Major feeding period" for the am hours and a " major feeding period" for the pm hours. This table also gives you a "minor feeding period" for both the am and pm hours. The major feeding periods usually last 2 hours while the minor feeding periods last 1 hour.

    Just last night while fishing all night.....I had a great run on a live Bluegill at 2:30 am and the projected major feeding period was from 2:50 am-4:50 am. This fish bit during the major feeding period....Or very close to it.

    It is not a sure fire way to gaurantee that you will catch anything at all....as a matter of fact, they make no such claim. They simply state that these are the times of day and night that the fish and game will " Most Likely be active!!!

    Several years ago....when I was into the big striper fishing ....I would follow these charts to the letter and if the chart said that 4:30 pm was the major feeding period, you can bet I was out there fishing during these times. I have caught many, many, many, big fish just when the time table said they would be active. Lots of factors come into play as mentioned earlier, but in the past when I have fished during these major and minor feeding periods, my fish were caught during the times specified. Especially when concerning "Big Fish". On any given day....you can go to the lake and throw out some bait and usually catch some kind of fish....its not hard to do. But since I have been a trophy fisherman and targeting trophy fish.....These charts work for me over and over again. There is no doubt in my mind that they work.

    I have records dating back over the last 20 years and have kept up with many factors such as wind directions, times of day, baits used, barometric pressures, weather conditions and major and minor feeding periods. All my big fish have come from these times. So forget about this day or that day supposed to be the best days for fishing and just fish when you can......but pay attention to the Major and minor feeding periods....they can and do work! As far as proof........Beleive it or not! its up to each person to decide for themselves, but please dont knock something you dont fully understand how to use!:wink: