shocking

Discussion in 'LOCAL NORTH CAROLINA TALK' started by mack in n.c., Aug 28, 2008.

  1. mack in n.c.

    mack in n.c. Member

    Messages:
    287
    State:
    cary nc
    i am confused???

    by tomhawk...."shocking is stupid"

    by wyliecate...."an outdated law"

    ...actually i think its pretty smart.......i thought some of the people on this board wanted to do what the bioligist suggest ..."listen to the bioligist" i remember in someones post awhile back.....well, thats what they want done on the cape....thats what they think will make the cape a healthier fishery....

    as to outdated...its only a recent law... mid to late ninetys that they allowed shocking on the cape.....in the 70's and 80's you would of got a big ticket for shocking on the cape.........

    and as to tomahawk tagging 300 flats and only getting 1 recaught.....sounds like there are plenty to go around over there on the pee dee lakes...........

    actually i am not cofused.....its just not your way.......:wink:

    hey these smiles are pretty cool..:cool2:

    yall dont even fish the cape............please smarten me up on this....thanks and good fishing ......mack
     
  2. JAYNC

    JAYNC Active Member

    Messages:
    1,312
    State:
    Newport N.C.
    Haven't seen you on the neuse fishing in a long time, you still go once in a while or what. As for shocking.................................
     

  3. WylieCat

    WylieCat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,175
    State:
    NC
    "...please smarten me up on this..."

    You have smartened us all up on this one. We all can learn from your posts. Thanks for bringing us up to date and informing us. :big_smile_2:
     
  4. mack in n.c.

    mack in n.c. Member

    Messages:
    287
    State:
    cary nc
    love the neuse....no, havent been to the neuse much this year....re-injured my neck in december that i broke in 1996......cant go on the water as much by by self as i would like too for saftey concerns and my fishing parnter that goes with me alot to the neuse has been busy with work this year so i have stuck closer to home recently...also, longer drives also hurt but its getting better....worked out last night but when my neck feels good i sometimes overdo it so i am paying for it today........plan or hope to get down there with my son in a few weeks........i sometimes just go to catch those big bream and shell crackers in the neuse and some of the creeks off of it...
     
  5. mack in n.c.

    mack in n.c. Member

    Messages:
    287
    State:
    cary nc
    hey thats not fair!!!!!!!!...you used a smiley i dont have!!!!
     
  6. Bryan8552

    Bryan8552 New Member

    Messages:
    422
    State:
    nc
    Are there still plenty of those big ol titty bream down around Turkey Quarters? I thought that maybe between the fish kills and the flatheads they might all be gone by now.
     
  7. mack in n.c.

    mack in n.c. Member

    Messages:
    287
    State:
    cary nc
    i usually fish above turkey quarter creek but boy they are in there......one ramp has a bream(several) tournaments ayear.....me and my buddy entered 1......i really dont like tournaments and fishing down there when there is one because of all of the boats but man you ought to see the big ole bream that win those things..........monsters........i got 1 hole down there there is usually 18 ft deep at normal level and 1 day i was tied up to a limb with 4 rods out for cats......i decided to throw out a bottom rig on 6 lb line with a cricket between all of my cat rigs........big shellcrackers right in the middle of this hole where i catch some nice cats...i really didnt think i would catch much away from cover in that hole as usuallly the bream we catch are closer to cover...mack
     
  8. FATFLATTIE

    FATFLATTIE New Member

    Messages:
    2,170
    State:
    ILM, NC
    Shocking is certainly out dated. The biologist that for some reason think it's a good idea certainly have outdated logic. It isn't management, it's uncontrolled taking of fish. You're only supposed to keep flatheads from shocking, but you and I know that any blue that comes up is getting kept. I've heard many a horror story about all the cats that are kept by guys who are shocking. It's not as bad on the Cape Fear (yes Mac I fish the Cape, Black, and Waccamaw rivers where shocking is allowed so don't tell me I don't know) but in the shallower, narrower Black and Waccamaw Rivers you can do some serious damage. Talk to any local around the Waccamaw River and before you can even mention shocking they all begin to talk about how it's hurt the river, that was what was amazing to me. Without even mentioning shocking no less than 75% of the people we spoke to about catfishing immediately began talking about shocking and it's perceived negative effect on the catfishing in the river (these are people who live on the river and have been long before shocking and biologists with outdated "management" ideas). Also, these guys are out there every weekend for years on end, not part time working college kids half of which don't take their jobs as seriously as they should (yes I went to college too and have see it first hand) none of these Doctors really ever do any of their own work so how can they take data they didn't even collect and analyze it? But you're right, uncontrolled taking of fish is fine, if some guys over 10yrs ago thought it was a good idea then it must still be good, guess that's why there haven't been any innovations in the automotive, boating, computer industry in the last 10-15yrs. Look at that, I didn't even use a smiley.
     
  9. Bryan8552

    Bryan8552 New Member

    Messages:
    422
    State:
    nc
    It is my understanding that the reason shocking is allowed is because all the locals were complaining about the decline in bream and river robin fishing since the flatheads showed up. Is that not true wes ? Why do you think shocking is allowed ?
     
  10. mack in n.c.

    mack in n.c. Member

    Messages:
    287
    State:
    cary nc
    never said you yourself didnt know but evidently you do not.......i have fished all of those rivers to.......just as much for bream(probaly moreso for bream) as for cats.................wacamaw maybe not as much as the black and cape but i have fished them probaly before you were born....heck i used to hunt and fish the haw river where it it underwater form jordan and some of these younguns think they know the lake...........bryan hit the nail on the head...i have spoke with countless locals on all of these rivers and all of them hate the big cats......i have heard this on the mehherin, thethe roanoke, the tar, the neuse, the cape, the ne cape fear, the black , the lumber and the wacamaw...i have fished all of these........the only one i havent heard this is from the pee dee river rats............go to one of those bream tornaments i mentioned on the neuse and see how much they like the big cats...........

    i can assure you it wasnt an accountant at the ncwrc that made this decision...it was our bioligist.........on the behave of the bream fisherman....


    i have some buddies in georgia......they hate the big cats in the altamahaw
    as well......the state of georgia was even doing their own eradication program with shocking and taking the fish but have since conceded they cannot hurt the fishery.and so they gaveup and quit................

    oh, almost forgot.......left out contentnea creek.........the best bream water around.......fished it countless times and duck hunted it..........one day me and my buddy were taking outand and a bioligist walks up to the car(he was there all day doing a survey) and asked us had we had any luck.....i said sure........my nums maybe a hair off without looking at my diary but i saus sure , a 32 lber, a 25lber and an 8 lber.........he looked at me like he could not belive that 2 rednecks in a canoe could do that so i pulled out the ole digital camera and showed him........he got mad at us because we released the fish............i told him i would do whatever i wanted to do with them............every one knows i am for no restrictions on these non natives but if i dont want fish or need it i will let it go.........he was irate and said evryone needed to keep all the blues and flatheads we caught in there, the locals were complaining about the cats.............i told him that they the bioligist should of never put them thier to beging with........
     
  11. mack in n.c.

    mack in n.c. Member

    Messages:
    287
    State:
    cary nc
    forgot several things...\\


    "they all begin to talk about how it's hurt the river"

    why dont we listen to the bioligist and see how the non native cats have hurt the river?????????

    as for bioligist.....if they came out tommorow and said we are putting a 1 big fish limit statewide you all would be saying things like man they sure do get it....boy they really know their management stuff........

    but right now, today, tommorow...they are saying that shocking is needed.......why put them down for doing what they are supposed to do..............its just not what some of you want so its wrong........that in itself is not right......................yes shocking problay does have a bigger impact in a narrower stream.......but dont you think the non natives have a bigger impact there also and the bioligist want the shocking done there...............they are our bioligist......dont tell them they are using out dated management stuff because it is really 21st century management................anyway they are trying to fix what the prevoius generation of bioligist screwed up in the first place........mack
     
  12. FATFLATTIE

    FATFLATTIE New Member

    Messages:
    2,170
    State:
    ILM, NC
    Mac, I will agree with you 100% in one aspect. It was the biologists that first put the fish in the river system either by accident or on purpose, the fact is that they are here and need to be managed along with the native species, not eradicated without any creel surveys or boat ramp interviews. The state of NC needs to look at how the Division of Marine Fisheries assesses the saltwater fish stocks. They could learn a few things.

    I know how University research projects go about and it's rare that the actual guy with a doctorate degree does any sampling or recording of data, simply b/c of time restraint issues so all that is left to the college students who most of which are only mildly interested in what they are doing. This results in less than accurate results. Don't know if that's how data is collected at NC State but that's how most of the data is collected at UNCW, the professors just don't have the time.

    To answer your question Bryan, I think that the reason that shocking is allowed is that they saw it as an easy "solution" to the problem. They keep saying to allow shocking but there hasn't been sufficent evidence that I've seen to say it's working to do anything. I think that the decline in red breast sunfish has many causes. For one, on the Cape Fear the biologists once again made a bright move and stocked spotted bass which are ravenous and seemingly everywhere. They will eat more fry than a big cat will and much more little ones than a big cat. Also, Mac you're obviously a good bream fisherman which I certainly am not, if you can go out and catch them why can't all the other good bream fishermen? The Black River panfish tourneys gather more boats than any catfishing and most all bass fishing tournaments in the area and guess what the only kind of panfish they can keep is? Redbreast. Most fish are brought back dead and there's quite a few and how many people throw a bream back? Not many. If you ask me there are multiple causes and the attempted annihilation of the flathead catfish is simply not the answer. It's the biologists job to find a way to manage the river and they need to do that not just take the easy way out.

    Also, if they think that shocking is needed to protect the redbreast sunfish then why isn't there shocking allowed everywhere in every river system with flatheads and redbreast? Hopefully, it's b/c they're smart and they're using the allowed sections of the river as a sort of test to compare to unshocked areas of the river at a later date but that doesn't sound like it's the cast given every biologists view that the flatheads need to be shocked as much as possible.
     
  13. Bryan8552

    Bryan8552 New Member

    Messages:
    422
    State:
    nc
    I dont have any of the answers and dont know that anybody else does either. It's funny to me how creel limits, where they exist, on 99% of all other species of fish, allow you to keep the big fish moreso than the small ones. And then all the seat of your pants biologists on this site are proposing that on the catfish species, you keep the small ones and let the big ones go. Something dont sound right with that.

    As far as people not letting any bream go, I was taught growing up that you let all the small ones go so they could grow up to be big and keep the bigger ones to eat, same with all fish back then. Me and my sons basically only crappie fish, my youngest one truly loves it. Every time he catches one under ten inches he throws him back, the instant he hits the water my son says "catchya later buddy". Now, with the flats and blues, everybody's hollering to keep the small ones and let all the bigguns go. Go figger.
     
  14. Bryan8552

    Bryan8552 New Member

    Messages:
    422
    State:
    nc
    I forgot to mention that where we fish, Kerr Lake, there are no creel limits of any kind on crappie. Most of us regular crappie fishermen have sorta set our own standards, keeping crappie between 10 and 13 inches. I can't tell you whether or not it's actually helping but the crappie population at Kerr is excellent. We have broken the NC State record on white crappie several times this year. We just let 'em go.
     
  15. JimmyJonny

    JimmyJonny Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,059
    State:
    sc
    My guess would be because bream don't live 20 years or so.
     
  16. Bryan8552

    Bryan8552 New Member

    Messages:
    422
    State:
    nc
    Jim, how long do bream live ?
     
  17. JimmyJonny

    JimmyJonny Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,059
    State:
    sc
    Well, like I said...its my guess. You folks would know better than me. But I will say common sense tells me bream are lower on the food chain, therefore prolly producing more fry, more often, and wont make it to live as longer as bigger fish, such as Striper, cats, because they are a food source. As I said my guess says they would live a shorter life, and produce more to maintain the species.

    But hey...what do I know. I do think your debate is interesting but I'm not taking sides simply because I don't have the facts, just useless guesses.

    So...how long do they live ? Guess I could get off my arse and learn a little ; )

    -Jim-
     
  18. Bryan8552

    Bryan8552 New Member

    Messages:
    422
    State:
    nc
    I don't have a clue Jim. That's my point exactly. a lot of folks are wanting to manage our fisheries with nothing more than a bunch of guesses.
     
  19. JimmyJonny

    JimmyJonny Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,059
    State:
    sc
    If you will notice I said " useless guesses " in my post...... And I did mean my guess, LOL I used that term because like you, I'm worn out on people knowing it all...but that does include DNR in some aspects...IMO.

    I was on a thread a month or so back that you would prolly like. I had everyone's panties in a wad. I basically said I was sick of everyone thinking they know it all. Most of the info people blur out is some junk they read on-line somewhere else and they just repeated it.

    Ahhh...don't get me started again, LOL.

    Like I said, here, on this thread, I aint takin sides...because I'm not qualified to debate. And shocking... never seen it before, ya cant do it here.


    -Jim-

    Update....maybe bream do live a long time. Some kinda black bream lives 37years, LOL. I haven't found any info on regular bream yet.
     
  20. JimmyJonny

    JimmyJonny Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,059
    State:
    sc
    Oh..I would thank yas but the thanker tank is empty ; )

    -Jim-