Rifle during the rut

Discussion in 'Deer Hunting' started by Mi11er, Nov 24, 2009.

Do you think that Rifle hunting during the rut impacts the size of bucks?

  1. Yes, Move the date

  2. No, Leave it the way it is

  3. Yes, Leave it the way it is

  4. Don't care

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Mi11er

    Mi11er New Member

    Messages:
    5,117
    State:
    Independence, M
    I was just wondering what everyone thought about this. I was thinking that Missouri has the rifle season in the heart of the rut. Most of the states around Mo doesn't do it this way. I think that the deer herd would improve if the gun season was moved to another date. What is your opinion?
     
  2. dieselcat

    dieselcat New Member

    Messages:
    406
    State:
    Washington, Mis
    I agree with you,because hard telling how many doe's are killed each year after being receptive that are not going to pass on the genes of that big buck that mounted her.
     

  3. kyelkhunter3006

    kyelkhunter3006 New Member

    Messages:
    1,192
    State:
    Ky
    Most states have the rifle (or modern gun) season during the rut for one simple reason. :wink:The rifle deer season is the most beneficial to the state, financially. Big bucks are spent each year to hunt big bucks (lol) during the easiest time to get them, the rut. More people hunt with firearms than with bow or blackpowder. Take the rut season away from them, you'd lose major $$.

    As for the doe thing, if you do a quick study of quality deer management, the less doe deer you have, the better your buck to doe ratio is. That makes it a better chance for big bucks, since the inferior male deer will be pushed out or away from doe by the dominant buck, resulting in that superior deers' genes getting passed on to more deer. All of the deer hunting ranches cull large amount of doe deer on a regular basis, along with inferior bucks.
     
  4. Mi11er

    Mi11er New Member

    Messages:
    5,117
    State:
    Independence, M
    I know that money has something to do with it. But, Kansas' rifle season is in Dec and look at their bucks compared with Missouri's. Missouri is no crap state by no means, but Kansas does have better deer. There may be other reasons for this. Missouri does have more deer, more hunters, and a more liberal season. But, the two states have a difference in the quaility of bucks. I would like to have a piece of that pie:wink:.
     
  5. HOLD-ACCOUNT

    HOLD-ACCOUNT New Member

    Messages:
    191
    State:
    oklahoma
    There is another huge factor in the Kansas equation.......

    Residents and non residents are only allowed 1 buck per year per person. This single factor saves many, many, many little bucks lives.

    On a side note, there is also almost 9 million residents in MO and not quite 3 million in KS last time I checked years ago. Both states have the same land mass size pretty much which also equals less pressure per acre.

    Non resident permits are $400 after you buy the license in KS. The non resident permits are $225 in Mo and not in a drawing like KS permits. I hunted as a non resident this year in both states and KS is a better state for big mature deer.

    Are you willing to go to a 1 buck per year system.......Just curious. I would be.
     
  6. flathead willie

    flathead willie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,241
    State:
    Virginia
    Virginia rut is split between muzzle loader season and gun season. We still have a good number of big bucks. You have to keep in mind that the reason for deer season is NOT to allow people to get big bucks, but to control herd numbers. Deer are doing a lot more moving during the rut, thus more people see and kill more deer. I used to believe the stories about too much hunting pressure eliminating the bucks, dogs running the deer out, bow hunters killing all the good deer before gun season, etc., until I started shed hunting my friends farm and running bear dogs after deer season. There are plenty of big deer that hunters never even see. A lot of the biggest bucks are strictly nocturnal, and can not be killed during legal shooting hours unless they happen to be jumped off the bed and run to a hunter. Some of the biggest bucks are so reclusive that they don't even breed. In my friends orchard, they have a huge pile of great antlers that are found as sheds, usually in their tractor tires, after the season is over. I've jumped a lot of big bucks with bear dogs long after the season closes. Subscribe to North American Whitetail. You'll see plenty of huge bucks coming from Missouri.
     
  7. CountryHart

    CountryHart New Member

    Messages:
    10,914
    State:
    missouri
    Missouri has 1 buck limit and has as long as i've hunted here. After the rut eases, all the bucks that i've seen seem to go away. Hardly see them again till the next year. Chris is right about the $$$ part. Also agree that Ks. has more and better deer. It was packed with deer the last time i turkey hunted there. I didn't vote but like the odds of huntin the rut.
     
  8. Paraguayguy

    Paraguayguy New Member

    Messages:
    1,650
    State:
    Virginia
    Hunting seasons are the #1 and absolutely best way to control the deer herd. Without killing off about 25% of the herd each year through hunting seasons and cars, you get an expanding population that sooner or later eats itself out of house and home. We have it bad in VA. Some places the Buck Doe ratio is 20 to 1. We get six deer per year on our license of which 3 can be bucks. If you want to kill 1000 deer all you have to do is be willing to shoot does. I think the fee is $10 or so for an additional two doe tags and no limit on the number of tags to anyone. When I was a boy my county killed less than 100 deer during the season. Now we get 7,000 in two weeks. I have a landowners permit to shoot as many as I please. My brother and I shot over 30 does last year and only two bucks. We try to not shoot anything under 3 1/2 years old. Every 3 or 4 years we will get a big boy 5 1/2 years old.

    Let the Biologists do their jobs.

    I think I saw something about MO putting a minimum points on one side of the antlers rule. VA is doing that in a few counties and I hope will do it in more. I think that forces folks to take some more of our way to many does and gives the bucks a chance to grow up.
     
  9. Mi11er

    Mi11er New Member

    Messages:
    5,117
    State:
    Independence, M
    Yes I agree. The deer kill in Mo equaled the total population in Ks.

    As far as the 1 buck rule. Yes I would agree with a 1 buck per person. Per a combo of Gun/bow/muzzleloader as it is in Ks. I think that alone would make MO a powerhouse in trophy bucks, it is allready a powerhouse but that would make it the best
     
  10. bootshowl

    bootshowl New Member

    Messages:
    2,288
    State:
    Indiana, J
    I could be full of it....and usually are, LOL. But I've been wondering for the longest if the real culprit is the yote population, not the hunters. If I remember right, 3 out of four fawns don't make it in areas with dense yote populations. When I was a kid, coyotes were out west. Saw em in Disney flicks. Now the varmits are everywhere, even on the edges of the cities.
    Here in Indiana they actually have a season on them. That would be the one conservation law I'll actually break. Have gun, see yote, will shoot. They should be classified "varmint", but like the man said, most of it's bout the money.
     
  11. big cat matt

    big cat matt Member

    Messages:
    320
    State:
    mo,OSAGE ARM TRUMAN

    I agree some of the biggest bucks i ve seen are bumped by our coyote hounds.Also my family and close friends hunt whitetail bucks hard,On our own ground and public,big mature bucks are hard to come by we take a couple every year but they are seldom seen.We have the 4 pt rule almost state wide now and thats already helped let a few bucks grow.BUT we have seen a hell uv a drop in overall deer numbers in our area and on areown property in the last few years.Used to see 20 to 30 while checkin cattle or feedin in the winter now Im lucky to see 3 or 4,all in a few years.It maybe where the state wants deer numbers but not me!!!:wink:
     
  12. Mi11er

    Mi11er New Member

    Messages:
    5,117
    State:
    Independence, M
    I know that they are thick. I guess that it could be a problem. I read that the wolf pop out west wasn't so much killing the elk but, they were pressuring them to the point that the elk were not producing like they were. Instead of a cow producing twins every year, she was only producing one.
     
  13. Welder

    Welder New Member

    Messages:
    4,834
    State:
    Missouri
    Just look @ some of the monsters kidds take during youth season in oct.
    Yes doe numbers seem to be down but I dont buy it. Lota does getting smart as ol bucks. Got 2 ol grey nosed ones on one property that stare @ trees and burrow in to stuff a mouse would have trouble crawling thru. And I see more and more of em layen down @ grey time before full dawn in head high weeds and they wont jump up till ya almost step on em. Now a yearlen and young doe shortage there might be in some spots the young and dumb end up in freezers fast :big_smile:. The 4 point restricion is getting alot more bucks in the herd and alot of us hunters are even letting the young small 8 points walk. And tryen to take out the old and junk bucks to improve the herd. Like small bodied old 8 and 9 point deer. heck ya can tell they old cause they sag and are grey faced. Been watchen 6 points to large spikes wanderen around all season. Sorry I hunt rifle the most, its the best tool to get the job done in the shortest amount of time. Lota guys only get 4 days a year to hunt openen and closen weekend, so they hunt rifle.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2009
  14. 223reload

    223reload New Member

    Messages:
    10,798
    State:
    Oklahoma
    Jess,I voted no,Cause here we cant hunt the rut for milies,But the game Dept wants to eradicate the whitetails,Co we hunt in Dec,which is the heart of the rut here.Really it doesnt matter a bit to me,Cause most hunts here are draw hunts unless you got big $$ or you have a bit of land like I do.
     
  15. dieselcat

    dieselcat New Member

    Messages:
    406
    State:
    Washington, Mis
    missouri has 3 buck limit.....you can take 2 during archery.1 before firearms season and 1 after or 2 after firearms with a bow.then you can take 1 during rifle season with a rifle,muzzle loader,etc....
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2009
  16. Paraguayguy

    Paraguayguy New Member

    Messages:
    1,650
    State:
    Virginia
    Two weekends to hunt deer?????? I would roll over and die. Our season comes in in Sept with Urban Archery and pretty much rolls right into March, more or less seven months of deer killing if that's what you are in to. We got way to many deer.(Thank Goodness)
     
  17. Welder

    Welder New Member

    Messages:
    4,834
    State:
    Missouri
    we got more time with other methods like archery and muzzle loader and doe season -- just rifle hunting for bucks is only 11 days starts on a sat and ends on a tue
     
  18. plainsman

    plainsman New Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    7,187
    State:
    minnesota
    I hunt in MN, and there are a lot of bucks that wouldn't be seen if not for the rut. Some of it depends on hunting pressure, with a lot of folks stompin around the woods the bucks will lay up in the day, a lot of does too. When the does are ready the bucks will be out lookin for them. If there are a bunch of people runnin around the woods, the bucks and does both go nocturnal. A pack of wolves moving thru an area will run em all out too. Young does and fawns will sometimes still be out in the day. Usually the hunt is timed to coincide with the rut so hunters have a chance to get a deer. Thats probably due to tryin to make money. The area I hunt went from no season to 5 in a few years. There weren't any more deer around, but it gave the DNR opportunity to sell more tags. Shooting bucks doesn't lower the population much. A rancher in WY said he'd rather have the does shot, they didn't like deer competing with the cattle for food.
     
  19. CountryHart

    CountryHart New Member

    Messages:
    10,914
    State:
    missouri
    I wasn't talkin about bowhuntin. I must have been shorted when i bought my archery tags cause they only give me one.:confused2: I enjoy shooting my 270 and wouldn't support the idea of not getting to use it.
     
  20. Paraguayguy

    Paraguayguy New Member

    Messages:
    1,650
    State:
    Virginia
    Our Rifle season in VA only lasts from Nov 14- Jan 2. Muzzleloader comes in Oct 31-Nov 13. Only two months to rifle hunt in VA and we still can't kill them down proper. Hunters for the Hungry was started by a guy from Big Island VA about 15 miles from my home place. Folks were killing so many deer they didn't know what to do with all the meat. Now it goes to homeless shelters and such. And we still have way to many deer. I forgot to mention over here we also get to hunt deer with dogs. You ought to hear the people that didn't grow up doing it whine about that.