Reloading question....

Discussion in 'Guns - Blackpowder' started by iabowhunter, Apr 11, 2009.

  1. iabowhunter

    iabowhunter New Member

    Messages:
    465
    State:
    South East Iowa
    I have a Lyman Orange crush reloading press that is several years old and has served me well. I loaded 200 .45acp rounds today with no problems. I switched over to .223 this afternoon. First stage...no problems. De primed and full length resized. Switched over to seat and crimp and my problem started. When I removed the case from the die, the die had shaved the side of the brass case. I tried it again and the same thing happened. It always shaves the brass in the same place, towards the front of the press.

    Anyone ever have trouble like this? I think I have a mis-alignment problem. Maybe wear on the threads of the press or maybe the threads of the die are not concentric with the seater? I don't know. I may have to buy a new set of .223 dies and a new press.

    Anyone have any thoughts on this?

    Thanks for any help.
     
  2. beshears

    beshears Active Member

    Messages:
    178
    State:
    Missouri
    Be sure there is not a grain of powder or a bur keeping the shell holder from seating all the way back in the slot in the top of the ram.
     

  3. iabowhunter

    iabowhunter New Member

    Messages:
    465
    State:
    South East Iowa
    Thanks Jay. I ran down stairs and cleaned out the cutout for the shell holder on the ram then checked everything over real good. Everything was clean and there were no burrs to be found. I tried another one and the same thing happened. I even replaced the RCBS shell holder with a Lee shell holder. No luck. Next I removed the spring pin that helps hold the shell holder in place thinking that just maybe it was pushing the towards the front. No luck with that either. My dies are pretty loose and have quite a bit of side to side movement when I screw them into my press. I'm wondering if when the locknut on the die makes contact with the press it angles the die toward the front causing the die to shave the side of the case.
     
  4. Snagged2

    Snagged2 New Member

    Messages:
    6,252
    State:
    Verde Valley AZ
    hmmmm, yea, the shell holder would have been my first guess,, not familiar with your press,, but, ensure the shell holder, and related, is absolutely clean,,

    the die could be , being cocked as you say, might try rotating, the die a bit, see if the scuff follows the die,, mess with the lock ring tension,,

    Could be some trash in the die,

    just shots in the dark,, hope you can figure it out,,
     
  5. 223reload

    223reload New Member

    Messages:
    10,798
    State:
    Oklahoma
    I been pondering on this since you posted last nite.I am thinking it has to be either the die or the RAM,You might have enough wear in the area of the ram that it is cocking the ram as you cycle it .
     
  6. iabowhunter

    iabowhunter New Member

    Messages:
    465
    State:
    South East Iowa
    Greg and Richard....Thanks for the ideas.

    I just went down stairs and backed the die off, first an 1/8 of a turn, then a 1/4 and so on. The scuff on the case follows the die. With the play between the die threads and the press threads, there would be a little "floating" of the die, but not enought to stop the scuffing. This tells me there is an alignment problem between the ram and the threads. I'm going to make an alignment fixture tomorrow at work and then check tomorrow night.

    I read on Midway USA that Lyman presses have a lifetime warranty. I'll email Lyman today and see what they say and maybe send it in for repair. Maybe they can fix me up. In the mean time I'll buy another press. Two is better then one, right?:smile2:
     
  7. Snagged2

    Snagged2 New Member

    Messages:
    6,252
    State:
    Verde Valley AZ
    Hi Phil,
    Is the scuffing being caused by the lower edge of the die? or higher up in the die?

    If 's the lower edge, it might be possible to slightly radius, and repolish. Unless it has a carbide ring in it. If it's higher up, could be a bit of material of some sort in there,, disassemble the die completely and clean with a chamber brush and solvent..
    I might try some .003-.005 shim stock under the side of the die lockring causing the scuffing,, if it moves it minimizes it, or better, then it sounds like an alignment problem.
    Or, maybe even turn the lockring over, or use another one,, and see if the problem is altered,,,?!!:tounge_out:

    Otherwise, used, presses are not too hard or expensive to come by!!:smile2:
     
  8. plainsman

    plainsman New Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    7,187
    State:
    minnesota
    By the description of this problem, I would first suspect the die. Since the scuffing follows when you back off the die, I'm pretty sure thats the problem. Hope ya get it figured out.
     
  9. xringer3

    xringer3 New Member

    Messages:
    950
    State:
    Oklahoma
    It's gotta be the die. I'd take the die apart and give it a good cleaning, then shine a light inside and inspect it. I'll bet it's got a scratch in it. It's not hard to get just a tiny piece of trash in the die and that's all it takes. I just had it happen to my 308 die and have to get another one now, it's doing the exact same thing.

    Since the other dies didn't do it and the shell holder was still in the same position, then it's gotta be just that one die. Good luck.
     
  10. iabowhunter

    iabowhunter New Member

    Messages:
    465
    State:
    South East Iowa
    Thanks for all the responses and ideas. I put some shim stock up to 0.020 under the lock ring and ran a shell up into the die. It shaved the same side of the case. I then removed the die, took it apart, cleaned it, replaced it, and ran a shell up in it. Same shave, same side. I then knelt down and watched the shell go up into the die. When shell went up into the die, the shell made contact with front side of the die and pushed it back in the oppisite direction. Now we are getting somewhere. I removed the .223 die and installed a .44 mag die and then the .45acp die. They both pushed the shell in the oppisite direction but did not shave the side. I assume that since the .223 case is longer then the .44 and .45 casings it had more surface area to push off to the side. I think that if I had been loading 30-06 the shaving would of been worse yet. Does that make sense?

    So now I am thinking that my press is tweeked. Now how it got that way I don't know. I never noticed it since I never loaded anything longer then a 45 acp on this press. I loaded the .44 mags on a different press a few years ago.

    Any thoughts?

    I'm going to go price a new press. RCBS, Hornrady, and Lee. I know the Lee will be the cheapest. I'm leaning towards the RCBS rock chucker.

    Thanks again for the replies!

    Phil
     
  11. Snagged2

    Snagged2 New Member

    Messages:
    6,252
    State:
    Verde Valley AZ
    Hey Phil,
    I agree with your thinking,,, I was wondering if when you put the shim under the lockring, if you just put it ,, under the one, low side..the "shaving" side,,, which if you did would "cock" the die hopefully to center.. If you put the shim all the way around it, like a washer, it wouldn't change the bad effect..
    If that was the case, like maybe the flat base where the lockring sits isn't flat, it could probably trued up by someone with a lathe or mill $$$???
    Anyway, Sounds like the press is warped or something,, so, probably a moot point.
    I'd think any "closed" or full frame press like a RCBS Jr. or Rockchucker ,would be probably the last one you'd ever need... I'm not familiar with too many other brands and configurations of their products..but, one that has the full frame has always been my choice.
    I've got several Dillon Precision presses and they're all closed frame types also..

    Seems like you're definitely going through all the right moves,, sounds frustrating..
    Hope it's remedied soon for you!!
     
  12. iabowhunter

    iabowhunter New Member

    Messages:
    465
    State:
    South East Iowa
    Yes sir I did place the shim under the side of the shaving. I work as a journeyman tool & die maker and have access to both lathes and mills. Drilling and tapping would be the easy part. Locating would be a pain in the butt. LOL It could be done though. I'll contact Lyman and see what they say about it and see if they indeed have a lifetime warranty. If not, I'll do it myself. I'll go ahead and buy another press though.

    Man, I wish I had a Dillion press. They are expensive but I think that they would be well worth the money.
     
  13. riverbud55

    riverbud55 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,948
    State:
    AZ Topock-/CA Riverside
    Name:
    Dale Miller
    Are they std. dies or carbide?, if there std. dies hone them(may work on carbide dies also),to make a hone take a 1/4''pc of wood dowel 3 or 4 inches long put a slit in it a 1/2" deep in the dowel, cut a strip of some 600 or 400 wet dry sandpaper 1/2wide about 2" long, insert it in the slot so the sanding side shows after wrapping it around the dowel put your home made hone in a drill motor add some lite honing oil and run it back and forth inside the die evenly at a slow speed, I fixed a 357 max die this way after forgetting to use lube on a std. die (thinking it was a carbide die which most all my dies are) and getting a case stuck in it and having to beat the case out. by the way I use Dillon case lube spray now on all my cases when using std. dies or carbide dies now:wink:. With them 223's your not going to get the neck, ya mite be able to sand a bit of a taper in the dowel on the end to help ya get it down a little deeper in the case. just take your time
     
  14. plainsman

    plainsman New Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    7,187
    State:
    minnesota
    Strange you only get the result from tapered cases. Maybe the press is tweaked, you won't have that problem with a rockchucker.
     
  15. iabowhunter

    iabowhunter New Member

    Messages:
    465
    State:
    South East Iowa
    That's what I thought with the Lyman...it's a cast iron press too.

    The rock chucker will be on it's way soon.:cool2:

    My wife is gonna kill me!:eek:oooh:
     
  16. Snagged2

    Snagged2 New Member

    Messages:
    6,252
    State:
    Verde Valley AZ
    If she does,, can you bequeath it to one of us??? LOL:smile2: