Records past & present

Discussion in 'Deer Hunting' started by SuCoTraveler, Dec 7, 2006.

  1. SuCoTraveler

    SuCoTraveler New Member

    Messages:
    58
    State:
    Milan Kansas
    Here is a question that I give for you all to think about. :roll_eyes:
    With all the products on the market to maintain a healthy deer heard, and to help “grow” antlers bigger and better then at any time in the past.
    How is it that a new state record or world record can be counted against some of the records that where harvested in the 70’s & 80’s or whenever?
    These animals “grew” on what they where given by Mother Nature, the people that shot them probably didn’t have game calls, scent attractant, or scent away either, they where in the right place at the right time.
    Athletes are not allowed to use steroids or drugs to improve their abilities, isn’t this kind of the same thing?
     
  2. stoney

    stoney New Member

    Messages:
    178
    State:
    Henderson,Ky
    one of the biggest bucks ever,was called the hole in the horn from a pretty good while ago i'm pretty sure it did'nt have any thing but mother nature to make him look like that...i'm sure there are still natural big boys out their,we as hunters just have to find them,,hopefuly..lol....
     

  3. bigcatmaniac

    bigcatmaniac New Member

    Messages:
    459
    State:
    California Miss
    I agree, I dont think that it is right to put new records against the old ones. I also have to agree that there are still some big "natural" bucks out there. All my friends say that i stand less of a chance of killing a big deer if i don't use scent away and all of that, but i think that if i can outsmart a deer using regular clothes i am a luckier and maybe even better hunter than some of the people using scent away and all of that stuff.
     
  4. catfishrus

    catfishrus New Member

    Messages:
    1,569
    State:
    north carolina
    the only person i ever seen say a food plot was the way to kill big bucks was the man on tv that was selling it. most of what we see on tv to help deer herds grow big racks is taped inside of a fence. 90 percent of the bucks out in the wild would grow nice racks if given the chance to. not all would go in the record books but they all would make nice bucks at 4-5 years old. when comes down to shooting record book bucks its luck and location. 99 percent of them big buck are noctural to a big degree and they hang out in places that most folks wouldnt think there was a deer at. so i guess my opinion on the matter is age is the trick to big bucks and not some store bought miracle bucket. record book bucks dont get big walking around in a food plot or coming to grunt call. just my opinion. good post
     
  5. bootshowl

    bootshowl New Member

    Messages:
    2,288
    State:
    Indiana, J
    Say Mother Nature to a farmer and see what he says. Corn and soybeans are what deer in southern IN are about. Your little garden for canning isn't even safe from the critters.
    :lol:
     
  6. blackhorse83

    blackhorse83 New Member

    Messages:
    1,008
    State:
    missouri
    A big part of what you huys are talking about is all about people selling something, they think if they say it is so you will buy it and that's pretty much true. I believe that the best sent blocker is height in a stand. I had deer and bobcats sniffing the stand with me in it and 20 to 30 deer within 20 yards of me while smoking this year alone. Say what you want if you are 15 to 20 feet in the air unless the wind is blowing straight down they won't pay any attention to you and no body is getting in your pocket book for stuff you don't need.
     
  7. jerseycat9

    jerseycat9 New Member

    Messages:
    2,544
    State:
    Oakwood Georgia
    Found him hole in the horn himself
    [​IMG]
    Goliath the deer was rescued and now lives on a farm I believe he was stolen at one point also LOL
    [​IMG]
    And last but not least Highroller
    [​IMG]
     
  8. catfishrus

    catfishrus New Member

    Messages:
    1,569
    State:
    north carolina
    one more note on this matter. the b&c record books does not accept deer from high fence ranches.

    jersey the goliath buck buck was stolen for several years from a deer farm and was located and returned to the rightful owner after several years. the farm that had the buck was fined for having the buck in court. the buck died afew years back. the hole in the horn buck was ran over by a train and had hit a fence knocking the hole in the horn which was believe to be a .22 cal. bullet hole at first. so lots of good history on them giant bucks. i found most of this information in the pages of north american whitetail magizines. the current world record typical buck came sask. canada. and i believe the next one will come from canada as well. the deer have huge bodies some reaching 350lbs and along with them big bodies comes big racks. the farming is still strong in that part of the world today with miles and miles of grain fields and good cover for the deer. there is bucks dieing of old age in the bush country up there as well. some have never seen a human. i have shed hunted canada and it is unreal at what is laying in them field and bushes. they are still smart creatures as well. the best hunting up there is off limits for the most part for non residents.
     
  9. SuCoTraveler

    SuCoTraveler New Member

    Messages:
    58
    State:
    Milan Kansas
    Thats something I didn't know, but thought it should be the case, B&C record not counting the animals in fenced deer ranches.
     
  10. Cathooker

    Cathooker New Member

    Messages:
    299
    State:
    Ga
    It takes three things to make a BIG racked buck...genetics, age and nutrition.
    The majority of the biggest racked bucks come from areas with a lot of commercial agriculture.
    The bucks benefit from the nutrition of the corn, oats, wheat, soybeans, alfalfa, etc.
    Those crops are fertilized with MAN MADE fertilizers.
    Back in the 70s and 80s those deer ate the same thing as they do now.
    What all the ads do not tell you is that the additives they advertise is only a small part in what it takes to grow big bucks. We increased the size of our buck's racks on our land by fertilizing white oak trees, fertilizing honeysuckle and briar patches, planting high protein foodplots such as soybeans and clover, giving the deer sanctuary areas, letting the small bucks walk and shooting does to decrease the size of the herd.

    I am not a big fan of the Boone and Crockett scoring system. I believe in giving a deer credit for every inch of antler he has and do not take and deductions from him. I am not a fan of hunting high fenced deer enclosures either.
     
  11. 223reload

    223reload New Member

    Messages:
    10,798
    State:
    Oklahoma
    I agree totally nutrition is only one of the things to make big deer age and healthy heards are another and im not a trophy hunter to say but i know if ya shoot a younger deer he wont ever make it to trophy size though i shoot the first legal buck i usually see cause i like venison
     
  12. flathead willie

    flathead willie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,241
    State:
    Virginia
    How true. I smoke while I hunt and I kill plenty of deer. My stands are usually 20-30 feet up and I always try to stay down wind of the deer. I don't care what precautions you take, if you breath, you are giving off massive amounts of scent and there is nothing you can do about it. The market hunters around the turn of the last century almost killed off all the deer in the country....without the aid of scent blockers!
     
  13. WylieCat

    WylieCat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,175
    State:
    NC
    GREAT QUESTION!!

    The truth is that deer were actually healthier when there were fewer of them 20, 30, or 40 years ago. Less mouths to feed meant more food for the animals that did exist. Higher densities today mean less food for the deer that are left, thus the need in many areas for supplemental feeding.

    Honestly, while supplemental feeding on free ranging deer does help increase the average deer, it does not create the "booner bucks" that make the record books. That comes from a magic combination of age, genetics, and nutrition, with age being the single biggest factor that eliminates most bucks.

    Education among hunters today is what is leading to more and more trophy bucks. Hunters realize that allowing the younger bucks to walk will do more for growing trophy deer than any food plot ever will.