Ready to hang it up

Discussion in 'LOCAL KANSAS TALK' started by Kansas Tree Rat, Nov 10, 2009.

  1. Kansas Tree Rat

    Kansas Tree Rat New Member

    Messages:
    486
    State:
    Waverly, Kansas
    After 18 years of bow hunting and over 40 big game animals taken there is still nothing that I love to do more or anything that gives me the thrill of heading to the woods to chase whitetails. Fall is the time of year that I come alive and I spend most of the rest of the year thinking about and getting ready for the fall hunt.
    Then why would I give it all up, you ask? Simple, NO PLACE TO HUNT! But there are deer everywhere you say, that is what I hear all the time. There are too many deer according to almost anyone you ask. Then why is it that I can respectfully approach 16 landowners in one year, well before season with hat in hand and be turned down every single time? The old standards, Someone shot one of my cows once (with a bow? Come on), my nephew “might” want to hunt, out of state hunters will pay me thousands of dollars. Had one guy tell me he did not think he wanted to let anyone on his land to slaughter all his wildlife…hum and here I thought I was asking to selectively harvest a renewable resource.
    I had a friend that I met online give me permission to hunt last year (thank you very much once again Casey) but his place is a long drive and his brother was going to hunt the only place that was really decent to bow hunt this year. So I decided to hunt public hunting ground this year. I figured that if I spent the time and took the effort to get way back in and off the beaten path that I could find some decent hunting. So far I have been out 5 times and have not seen one single deer. I have gone as far as to kayak into a spot that is land locked and can only be accessed by water and still have pulled a big fat zero.
    The first year I was serious about bow hunting I had permission from 3 land owners and free run of almost 8,000 acres with only a couple of other guys on the same property. Today unless someone in your family owns a big track of land or you have thousands of dollars to spend you are pretty much out of luck.
    I have offered to help with chores, build fence, work cows or even handy man around the house and still no luck. I have done my home work and hunted up landowners addresses and sent letters of introduction then followed up with in person visits….sorry no luck.
    The thing that makes me really sad is that this is my daughters first year to hunt and my son is going to be ready in a year or two and we have no place to go. Money is very tight right now and after buying tags I hardly have the money for gas much less lease a place or pay to hunt on some club. I have pretty much resigned myself to the fact that this year is going to be a complete loss and the money spent on tags should have gone to buy groceries.
    Bottom line is that unless I can find some private ground for next season, this will be my last year. When deer hunting became big business the small guy got screwed!
     
  2. Backlashed

    Backlashed New Member

    Messages:
    3,270
    State:
    Derby, Kansas
    I know exactly what your feeling Alan. I gave up deer hunting a few years ago when the land owner I was hunting on decided to turn it into a business, and wanted to charge me a thousand dollars a year to rid him of his nuisance deer population. Its all about the all mighty dollar. Try finding a place to rifle hunt.:sad2:
    Good luck finding a new place to hunt, I hope your kids get the opportunity to experience their heritage.
     

  3. warcraft1975

    warcraft1975 New Member

    Messages:
    1,190
    when all else fails theres thousands of arces of public land thats very over looked i know most people dont wanna hunt public land but i like it alot
     
  4. kflats

    kflats New Member

    Messages:
    40
    State:
    wamego, ka
    Alan you just said in a short story whatI have been thinking for years, I used to hunt but quit because of what you just said and now I just fish , which dont get me wrong I love, but my question is how long will it be before it's that way with fishing. I know a guy that a few years ago loved all these turkeys showing up on his land, wouldnt let you hunt his precious turkey, then it seems one day he saw all his precious turkeys digging up his corn seed, then he was begging people to come hunt off him, even I was asked...that's when you laugh in there face and tell them "sucks to be you , to bad you dont know anyone that hunts huh"
     
  5. DOUBLEL

    DOUBLEL New Member

    Messages:
    46
    State:
    KANSAS CITY KS
    I worked in a hydraulic repair shop and could hunt about half of Reno county probably still could. I understand the owners side as well. Worked for a farmer that had a cow that got shot. Worth probably $1500 and he was not charging the hunters to be there. As far as I know I was the only person to keep hunting after the cowgot shot. I also have fishing rights at most of the sandpits around Hutchinson. I have always tried to give some of the game away. I had one sandpit owner that told me he had never had anyone offer him fish. So most of the time I would leave a note saying fish were in the freezer for him. Not whole fish but cleaned ready to fry fish. If I caught other fish from a lake that he liked walleye, crappie etc I would give some to him. I thought everybody did this. I guess I was the exception.

    Not sure this post will help you in your efforts but someone might see it and follow a few of the things I do and secure long term places when others get told no. I also try to help the owners if I see problems cows out let them know as soon as possible and stop hunting to help get them back in. Propane leaking shut the cut off valve and let them know.

    If you want to be noticed by a farmer help out before/during harvest if they have a decent operation they will need help then. I would not be opposed to saying you would help for 1 week and leave the hunting rights up to them at a later date so they don't feel pressured to let you hunt. Worst case they get help for the most important week of the year. I would also suggest you keep them involved in how the hunting is going. A referal from a landowner to another will get you hunting right 95% of the time. If the origanal place does not work the referal might be a better area.

    You will also meet their family during this week which will be important when the wife sees you. Some of these adventures have been a waste of time. Some have paid off for life. I also ask if they want to go and get a general feel for what they will allow. I wouldn't shoot the favorite buck of a farmer if he was bragging about how a huge 12 point has lived there for years. I would probably see the buck and pass it up the first time and tell him how big the 12 point is up close and I was planning on taken a deer more for meat and see if he tells you to go ahead and take his pet. I used to hunt varmits and had a farmer that just loved the bobcats living in the tree row. Guess what got a free pass on his farm?
    I understand the landowners side as well. They have very little incentive to let people hunt. If deer were so bad for the crops they would not need hunters to take care of them most farmers I know have the ability to clean out most of the deer that would effect their famring operations.

    I dont have kids but that might be a decent angle to try. Good luck
     
  6. rwg

    rwg New Member

    Messages:
    2,259
    State:
    WICHITA, KANSAS
    I quit hunting about 15 years ago for the same reasons, no place to go.
    Had 2 sections up by Peabody to hunt but my farmer friend sold out
    besides it intfears with my fishing
     
  7. Buff Place

    Buff Place Member

    Messages:
    407
    State:
    Mulvane, Kansas
    The problem’s only going to get worse. When you get a group of guys waving a big fat check in your face, well it’s hard to turn down. I have some friends that pay a farmer in South central Kansas 22k a year for the exclusive rights to hunt and fish on his property. The “good ole boy agreement” days are about over….it’s sad, very sad. Richard Gentree makes his living traveling Kansas and North Central Oklahoma setting up hunting and fishing leases and then turns around and re-leases them for a fee, he told me business is booming.
    If you lived closer I would be more than happy to let you hunt on my property for free.
     
  8. Katatonik

    Katatonik New Member

    Messages:
    1,262
    State:
    Ogden, Kansas,
    The opinion of those in charge seems to be "be rich or shut the f&*! up.".
    I am so steamed about this attitude. If the truth be known, I imagine
    the triggerhappy sombitch that shot that cow could have easily afforded
    to buy the animal but didn't want to be ribbed by his hunting buddies/
    business partners. Raised on concrete richpiggies...
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2009
  9. center12

    center12 New Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    State:
    KS
    Been in your shoes for years so know the feeling.:sad2: Believe it or not, there are deer on public land.........Perry has some big critters if you get off the beaten path. Your kayak is a great tool to reaching those hard to get to spots. Just because your off the beaten path doesn't mean it's prime habitat, continue searching till you find limited pressure and animals. Public land is a different game than private, those critters have seen and smelled more hunters in one season than a private land deer see's in a lifetime........got to have your ducks in a row!! If horns are what motivates you(don't believe that) then public can suck........a successful season may not be measured on the P&Y scale.

    Stay after it and visit the public ground after we've had some snow on for a while. Outstanding way to narrow down your hunting area's.

    Took off next week and will be hunting public.........the rut is the rut........those hormones are screaming!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2009
  10. Grimpuppy

    Grimpuppy New Member

    Messages:
    3,556
    State:
    Concordia, KS
    You think it is bad now..... Wait until non resident tags start selling over the counter. You won't have a place to hunt or a trophy deer anywhere in the state.
     
  11. rush_60

    rush_60 New Member

    Messages:
    1,719
    State:
    Troy, KS
    Its not just money that motivates the private land owner. When you own a prime peace of property and you drive out opening morning and 15 guys are already parked in your field and are in your spot. They think they know you so that gives them the right to hunt your land without permision. So you decide to show up a bit early that afternoon and beat everyone to your stand. Pretty soon somebody comes driving by in their beat up bronco. Driving around the edge of the field trying to scare something out for them to shoot because they are too lazy and impatient to walk and sit. They don't care that its muddy and they are leaving ruts. Thats what 4-wheel drive is for. They dont care that they drove right by you. And you know they can see you because your covered in blaze orange! A couple of frusterated days later you finaly see a big doe. You shoot her and as she is runing off another hidden hunter shoots her too and drops her dead. He runs out to her and says he killed her and she's his. Your not going to disagree with him because he has a gun, and its not worth it.
    Cows do get shot. We had one get shot, fortunately the guy was a bad shot, and it lived. but the hunter did the right thing and paid the vet bill. People drive nails in your trees in the field that are worth more money than we would get from the hunting lease. If a logger sees one nail in a tree thats it, they are done. Nails can kill their guys at the lumber mill. They won't buy any trees from you. When mushroom season comes along and your heading to your secret mushroom spot and you see footprints in the mud all around your secret spot, and you don't find mushrooms, makes you a little mad.
    We have a little 3 acre pond by home. Has crappie and bass in it. Last spring 2 guys came and caught over 150 crappie out of it and took them home. And they came back several other times and kept even more fish. They think they are entitled to them because one of them says he put a few crappie in their years ago. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Does that give him the right to fish without permision? A couple of my brothers friends came out and kept 100 bass out of the pond. They never asked permision either but felt the friendship was their entitlement. I've never taken more than 15 at a time because it was such a small pond, and I felt it probably had a delicate balance.
    Trappers come and trap the beaver out of our ponds and creeks. They think they are doing us a favor, which they are, But they dont know that I trap beaver. I have to go scout other spots, and ask other farmers for permision because all the spots on my land has been cleaned out.
    You may think this stuff is crazy and I'm making it up, but its all the truth and this is just the stuff that has happened to my dad, and me. People don't ask permision, people don't thank land owners, people don't share the harvest, and people don't take care of the land. When someone asks permision from me, I take time out of my schedule to show them around and give them an idea where I've seen the animals. I've never had a problem with a person that has asked me permision. I've only had a few hunters let me know how the hunting is even going for them though after I showed them around.
    It used to be when I was a kid hunters would stop by and drop off a pheasant or quail, summer sausage from their deer, maybe a pound or two of mushrooms, fish filets from our pond. Some guys would even bring by their garden produce during the summer. Somehow that stopped a long time ago.
    When you lease out your farm to hunters, you have an agreement, that they won't do all the stuff that the masses have done. They take care of the treaspassers and most people won't treaspass when they see the leased sign. Insteaded of offering part of the harvest to you, they write you a check. Some leasies let the landowner hunt on the land they leased too. Its really a win win for the farmer.
    We don't lease our land. My dad doesn't bother hunting. Me and my brother do, but we have had people in our spots numerous times. My dad isn't the type to press charges for tresspassing so we don't even bother confronting people. Thats something that has become dangerous to do these days.
    I love hunting and hate that you guys can't find spots and want to give up, but their are too many idiots out there, ruining it for everyone else. Really money isn't the issue, its nice but doesn't really make a dent in our cash flow. If we paid $4000 per acre for 100 acres ($400000), and a person wants to lease it for $2.50 per acre ($2500), that might pay some of the interest on the note. I just want you guys to understand what its like from our side somtimes. Sorry for my rant, and hope I didn't make anyone mad.
     
  12. CountryHart

    CountryHart New Member

    Messages:
    10,914
    State:
    missouri
    Hang in there. I turkey hunt the mined lands east of Parsons and deer are thick there. Hopefully you can find some private ground close by too. Times have changed and good ground is harder to find but i dern sure have no intention of quittin.
     
  13. playin4funami

    playin4funami New Member

    Messages:
    4,104
    State:
    Saronville Ne.
    Guys it's the same thing in Nebraska too,lived right in this one area for 30 friggin years,used to have all I could hunt and then some,now the areas are leased to people from the citys,I don't blame the farmers,if someone came and said they would give me 5 grand to hunt and be the only ones allowed to hunt I would probably sell the right too,friends are dandy but cash feeds the kids and puts them through college. I think that the city boys who come out here waving around the cash are the ones that ruined it,they got tired of the owner looking over their shoulder and seeing the city lisence plates while they were asking permission and started buying their way in,but these are the same "hunters" who got a bad rep for the trespassing and blatent disregard for private land in the first place! more wil happen before it gets better,by the way the going rate around here is 5 grand for private property with any creek or riverbottom on it with trees,etc., Don't know about you all but I'll go buy a couple beef and have them butchered before I pay that kind of money to shoot a deer. As far as I'm concerned anymore those deer can have at the feilds,they payed for it!
     
  14. Bill in SC

    Bill in SC New Member

    Messages:
    4,451
    State:
    South Caro
    Yes, that is the key! Club pricing forced my out of hunting several years ago. There's a HEAP of public Game Management land to hunt though. Sure is different than it was when I was a kid and you could hunt about anywhere you wanted to.

    Bill in SC
     
  15. Kansas Tree Rat

    Kansas Tree Rat New Member

    Messages:
    486
    State:
    Waverly, Kansas
    Thanks to every one for the advice and the shoulders for me to cry on. It sounds like there are a lot of you that are in the same boat, though that part does not make me feel any better.
    I would like to say that I do really understand the land owners point of view after all they have had to put up with slobs and trespassers for years, plus they are trying to make a living so please don’t get me wrong this was not meant in any way to slam what someone does with their own land it was more directed at the way things have changed over the years.
    I guess for me this was a way to let off some steam and I have not thrown in the towel quite yet. Bow hunting is too much of who I am to not pass it on to my kids. Personally I have shot enough deer that I could hang it up but I want my kids to have the chance to experience some of the things that I have over the years even if it is getting harder to do. Things like a bobcat drifting through the woods like a puff of smoke, a pair of fawns chasing each other and running in circles just to run or the feeling that your heart is going to pound its way out of your chest when you see a nice buck heading your way.
    Thanks for the encouragement and I plan on taking Mallory and Mason with me from now on when I go to talk with land owners maybe that will help.
     
  16. rush_60

    rush_60 New Member

    Messages:
    1,719
    State:
    Troy, KS
    I wasn't ripping on you or anything alan. I just think the landowners get a bad rap sometimes and people dont think about all the crap they have to put up with.
     
  17. CNTRYBOY

    CNTRYBOY New Member

    Messages:
    1,573
    State:
    Benton, Ar
    I understand the feelings. I use to be able to hunt anywhere around here. but, then they leased it all out and I can't afford the lease! But, life goes on!

    If you have the compasion for the sport and want to pass it on to your kids - then you won't let this stop you!

    There are thousands of acres to hunt that is open to the public. May cost you a small fee for a permit - but there is a lot of game there! National Forest and Wildlife management areas are great areas to hunt without a large lease fee!

    Hang in there and keep the tradition going! What if everyone just stopped because of this? Not only would the big dogs win - but our wildlife would suffer from over population and deseases and such - AND the american hunting tradition would be lost!

    Instead, hang in there and teach those younguns to never give up and teach them the values and morals that our American forefathers have keep alive for generations.

    GOOD LUCK - AND HAPPY HUNTING!
     
  18. Kansas Tree Rat

    Kansas Tree Rat New Member

    Messages:
    486
    State:
    Waverly, Kansas
    Casey you made some very good points and I am glad you said what you did. I understand that for me though it is important and I take it very serious it is "fun" and to the landowner it is his livelihood. I did not intend to make anyone sound like a bad guy. You are one of the few that have given me a chance and that is all I can ask from anyone. No offense intended and none taken.
     
  19. buddyodie

    buddyodie New Member

    Messages:
    138
    State:
    illinois
    I know where you're coming from Alan, I gave it up a couple years ago after my brother in law sold his farm. Every patch of ground here in Pike County, is snatched up by outfitters. Can't blame the land owners though, these guys are paying big bucks for leases. ( And charging big bucks for hunts.) It's to the point that if you want to hunt , you have to pay. I am a meat hunter, so I always fill several doe tags every year. The paid hunters however are paying to hang something on their wall. The result is , there are not as mant does killed as there were when the locals could hunt. The farmers still gripe about the deer eating their crops though. Have even heard an outfitter say that the does are too thick, but do you think he might let a local or two come in and shoot a few does? Nope, not unless you want to pay the $. For what these guys charge, you can buy alot of rib eyes and T-bones. I too, have killed plenty in my life time, but I am sorry that my grandson may never get the chance to expierience the hunt and the kill.
     
  20. Iowa_Josh

    Iowa_Josh New Member

    Messages:
    1,463
    State:
    Central Iowa
    You reminded me of last fall. I got this place to hunt. I was all excited. I took a week off and went to it. The guy was too nice. He wouldn't keep people out and I'd drive an hour to this farm and there'd be a car there.