Ran off a wing dike again!

Discussion in 'MISSOURI RIVERS TALK' started by Scaley Cat, Oct 7, 2007.

  1. Scaley Cat

    Scaley Cat Member

    Messages:
    213
    State:
    Missouri
    Guys, I've been fish a small wing dike here in Jefferson County that connects to the property of Ameren UE. I started fishing they Memorial Day 2006, caught my pb there. That day, they're security guard made me leave stating I was tresspassing on UE property. I did not feel I was but I apologized and left peacefully. I spent the next 2 week calling the conservation and the Army Corp of engineers to find out if I was indeed tresspassing and who owns the wind dike. The corp told me all wing dikes belong to them and I was not tresspassing as long as I didn't get on the land it connects to, which I don't. Today, that same security guard ran me off again. I pleaded my case but was once again made to leave. What should I do? Let me add, once I got an answer from the corp in 06, I've fished there about every weekend with no problems until now. Are there any rule/laws about wing dike and private property? Oh, this is on the Mississippi River.
     
  2. billcatfish

    billcatfish New Member

    Messages:
    1,571
    State:
    evansville Ind
    sounds to me like your on his fishing hole are you fishing from bank or boat if by bank how are you getting there with out getting on there place to get there
     

  3. Howie Ketchdem

    Howie Ketchdem New Member

    my advise would be to get a county plat book that shows who owns land in that particulas area. They might be blowing smoke ya know what i mean, id look in a plat book and it will say exactly who owns it. if they do own it try and find whoo owns the closest land to the spot your trying to fish. also they dont own the water waid in and fish it they cant say a thing i dont think...
     
  4. Cuz

    Cuz New Member

    Messages:
    7,241
    State:
    DeSoto, MO
    Wing dikes are owned and maintained by the Army Corp Of Engineers as far as I know. Its my understanding Private property does not start until you have reached the PERMANENT vegetation line on the bank. This does not include the "willow groves" that pop up on sand bars in low water conditions. This was explained to me by a Missouri Department Of Conservation Director when I was researching a place to hunt and camp on the river. Honestly dont know how it applies to a plant immediately adjacent to a wing dyke, but I assume its still corp of engineers. Mr T, Kutter?
     
  5. spoonfish

    spoonfish New Member

    Messages:
    3,780
    State:
    Warsaw, Mo.
    Whats Barney gonna do to Ya? He can't get that bullet out of his shirt pocket that quick. Tell him to go call Andy if he has a problem....:wink:
     
  6. Prowler

    Prowler New Member

    Messages:
    49
    State:
    Maryland
    Just my two cents but here is how I would approach the situation.

    It sounds like you have done your homework and are confident that you are "right" in determining that you have the "right" to fish that area. If you are then I would proceed as follow's.

    1) continue fishing the area

    2) the next time said security guard approaches you, in a FRIENDLY MANNER (while remembering the story about catching fly's with honey or vinegar) explain to the security guard that you have researched this matter, and that you have been told by the Corp of engineers that you ARE allowed to fish from the wing dyke. Provide him with all the information you have obtained (names , phone numbers, etc.)

    3) encourage the guard to double check on your findings, BUT be very firm that until he checks you will continue to fish.

    4) If he insists that you leave, calmly advise him that you would like to have a police officer come to the scene and mediate the discussion.

    5) BE PREPARED to back up your side of the story to the Police when they arrive with the facts / phone numbers (also see if the Corp of engineer folks you spoke with could fax you something indicating this on their letterhead)

    6) once the police arrive present the situation as you see it to them (with your documentation)


    If it is indeed a spot that your "Allowed" to fish in, you will win out..... IF however its just a security guard trying to "Protect" his personal fishing spot he may continue to be belligerant to try and "Bully" you out of what he considers his turf.

    Whatever you do... don't let your personal feelings get the better of you... no one wants to see you get sent to the pokey because you and the security guy decided to settle things the old fashioned way.
     
  7. BIG GEORGE

    BIG GEORGE New Member

    Messages:
    10,362
    State:
    JOISY
    What is this Amerin UE all about. Could we be dealin with some homeland security law that overrides everything.
     
  8. Malichi1970

    Malichi1970 New Member

    Messages:
    1,334
    State:
    Fenton, Missouri
    Ameren UE is the Electric Company

    You never did say if you were reaching this spot via boat or land......if you are arriving here by boat I don't think the security guard has anything to say and telling him to call the police is probably the best option.....But, if you are arriving by land and are crossing their land you may be out of luck.....sorry :sad2:
     
  9. SkipEye

    SkipEye Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,525
    State:
    Winfield, MO
    Name:
    Darryl
    You still haven't stated if you have a boat. If you are on foot, you obviously have to step on their property to gain access.

    Commercial and personal property rights only extend to the normal pool level of the river. That is laid out on any county Plat book. Go buy one at the courthouse. If you are in a boat I can pretty much say with all certainty that you ARE NOT trespassing if your boat is floating. LMAO

    Tell him to call the cops if he needs to.

    Remember, it don't take no rocket scientist to get one of dem dere so-kurity jobs.

    You are fishing his hole.

    On second thought just tell him to cram it.:smile2:
     
  10. Grumper

    Grumper New Member

    Messages:
    2,277
    State:
    Crystal City MO
    Hey Ralph, I'm assuming that you were fishing the wing dyke just north of Ameren's docks. Like the others stated, I always thought that the dykes were owned by the Corps of Engineers, since that was who created them. I got ran out of Holcim the other day, and I was in my boat. From now on, I'm gonna tell all them security guys to kiss my a##. I don't launch at Truman, so let them find me. Jeffco ain't got no jurisdiction on the Illinois side of the river!!
     
  11. Cuz

    Cuz New Member

    Messages:
    7,241
    State:
    DeSoto, MO
    I vote for Gary's method for rebuttal to the dike police LMAO :smile2::smile2::smile2:
     
  12. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    Guys, we are really into a gray area here. I posted a news report several weeks ago where a federal judge in, I believe New Orleans, ruled that a land owners rights went to the center of the navigable water way (in this case it was the Mississippi river). At any rate, he ruled boaters/fishermen were trespassing on private land. It has been appealed but no verdict has yet been rendered. It may be the power company's attorney's are aware of this ruling and the utility is using this justification to enforce the removal of all you trespassers. I think before I got into a "p" ing contest with them, I'd research this angle a little more. Maybe you can find an attorney that gives you the first session free, or you can contact the local/state law enforcement agencies. But, my personal opinion is that until this federal thing is settled your, pushing the limits. I'll see if I'm allowed to post a link - just so you know its not my imagination....

    http://www.louisianasportsman.com/details.php?id=213
     
  13. jtrew

    jtrew New Member

    Messages:
    4,404
    State:
    Little Rock, AR
    As long as you aren't crossing private property to get to the dike, and the Corps says it's theirs and you can fish on it, I'd first explain that to the guard, but be sure you have court-admissable proof of what the Corps says. It sounds like the guard probably won't pay any attention to anything you say to him, so your next step is to tell him to go ahead and call the police and have you arrested for trespassing. When the police arrive, tell explain to them politely, and inform them that you refuse to move. If they threaten to arrest you, tell them to go ahead and arrest you. If they do, go quietly; do not resist in any way. When you go to court, present your evidence that you weren't trespassing. When you are found innocent, get a lawyer who specializes in personal injury cases, and sue the electric company. The electric company will probably try to throw the guard to the wolves and say that he had no right to have you arrested, but they won't be able to get past the fact that he was their armed agent, acting for the company. You might get you a new boat & motor out of it
     
  14. Vince Copple

    Vince Copple New Member

    Messages:
    765
    State:
    Missouri
    Just call the supervisor at the plant and talk to them as I would think due to public PR concerns they would be more reasonable to discuss the issue with rather than the guard.
     
  15. rodenberg

    rodenberg New Member

    Messages:
    121
    State:
    missouri
    if you are getting there by boat then you should be ok but if not then you have to trespass to gain access to the dike. so was you on foot or boat
     
  16. Grumper

    Grumper New Member

    Messages:
    2,277
    State:
    Crystal City MO
    I know exactly which dyke Ralph is talking about. It is only accessible by boat, as it is land locked by the power plant to access it by foot or by vehicle.( Basically you'd have to walk a good mile through the middle of Ameren's plant to get to it anyway.) The dyke runs all the way out to the channel, as I'm sure that's where he was fishing anyway. There are no sign at all on the premesis. Until I had something in writing, I wouldn't worry about it. I don't think that the police would waste their time even driving out there to pursue second degree trespass or a fisherman who wasn't bothering anybody.
     
  17. Arkansascatman777

    Arkansascatman777 New Member

    Messages:
    7,782
    State:
    AR
    I would call your areas game warden and ask him, he is more than likely the one that will be called anyway. If he says it's alright then just bring some head phones to listen to so you won't be able to here the idiot guard and everytime you see him jumping up and down just smile and wave at him and keep on fishing. Whats Barny going to do swim out there:smile2: or shoot you:eek:oooh:, absolutely not. Just don't get in a yelling match with him and he will either give up or call someone then just tell the cop/warden i just thought he was out there having a nervous breakdown, didn't know he was trying to get my attention:smile2:.
     
  18. crazy

    crazy New Member

    Messages:
    2,090
    State:
    Kansas CIty, MO
    I would just flat out tell him you call the water patrol if you want me to go other wise kiss my @$$. There's no rent a cop going to tell me to move my boat on public water.
     
  19. Grumper

    Grumper New Member

    Messages:
    2,277
    State:
    Crystal City MO
    Sounds to me like that rent a cop was just p'd off that you were fishing his hole, while he was working. I've fished that dike for years and never had a single problem. Heck, That makes me want to hook the boat up, go down there, and fish.
     
  20. theonecatfishbob

    theonecatfishbob New Member

    Messages:
    4,100
    State:
    Wright City, Missouri
    I had the same problem anchoring above the admiral. I was in a tourny so I went ahead and moved. But we checked with Coast Guard and Corps of Engineers they told us as long as we were not on the bank they cant stop us from anchoring. tell that guy to call anybody he wants. He cant run you off. Tell me where it is i would be more than happy to have a go at it.