Ran into a trespassing problem this weekend

Discussion in 'MISSOURI RIVERS TALK' started by wayne1967, Jul 6, 2008.

  1. wayne1967

    wayne1967 New Member

    Messages:
    528
    State:
    Missouri
    We went canoeing down castor river this weekend. Took about 8 hours total. Good news is I caught my biggest smallmouth, 15". Bad news is I got a talking to by a land owner were I pulled out at. I was problely in the wrong because from what I've found on the net a land owner owns were the water stops. I parked on a county road and pulled out at a public bridge. I didn't go through any fields and drug the canoe up the riprap next to the bridge and over the railings. He came down the road and asked who gave me permission to take out there and if I ever parked there again he was going to tow my truck. I told him I thought it was a public bridge, that I was sorry and I wasn't littering or hurting anything just putting my canoe in my truck. Like I said legally I was problely wrong but it was just a bummer to end a great day. Had my wife and girl with me also. Won't make that mistake again.
     
  2. biga

    biga Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,112
    State:
    evansville
    that sucks .. might try to get permission from one of the land owners around there to put in or park on them so you dont have to worry about it anymore..
     

  3. Katmandeux

    Katmandeux New Member

    Messages:
    1,618
    State:
    Checotah, Oklahoma
    He may own the land, but the right of way is public...I own out to the center of the county road, but I certainly don't tell people they can't be on that road. Laws vary by state, of course, but I think you were okay.

    I think I would have rolled the dice, and asked him to call the sheriff.
     
  4. wayne1967

    wayne1967 New Member

    Messages:
    528
    State:
    Missouri
    Wish I knew someone. Accesses are few and far between. Makes me think of the movie Deliverance. :)
     
  5. GaryF

    GaryF New Member

    Messages:
    3,649
    State:
    O.P., KS
    The landowner may have been in the "right", but he was also a jerk to carry on like that. In some places it's next to impossible to tell whether you are looking at private property or not, and I'm sure if there was a sign there you would not have used that spot as a take out place. Sorry to hear about a family outing ending on a down note that way.
     
  6. wayne1967

    wayne1967 New Member

    Messages:
    528
    State:
    Missouri
    My luck he would have prosecuted me then. He never used the word trespass though. He just said no public fishing or access to the river. The part about him towing my truck I am sure I was ok though because I was on a state county road, nothing private about it.
     
  7. DJH1

    DJH1 New Member

    Messages:
    184
    State:
    Missouri
    Yep, I believe I'd took my chances too. Tell him to call the law. 2nd degree trespassing is just an infraction in missouri, so a small ticket is the most trouble you'd have. But I dont know of a single deputy who would write somebody for something that stupid. Some, not all, landowners are just aholes and think they own everything.

    A couple years ago right before dove season I was driving on the turn row of my cousins rice field just lookin for birds. I pull onto the county road and a guy flags me down asking who I am and did I have permission to be on that ground because he leased, not owned, the field next to it. After he gave his little spill I lit into him, asked who he was, and informed him not to flag me down again with an attitude, or he'd be the one going to jail. Needless to say he now politely waves.:big_smile:

    I like to think that if I was a landowner I'd be a little more considerate. I know it has to get old with people trespassing, damaging your property, etc, but some people just have a chip on their shoulder.
     
  8. flathunter

    flathunter New Member

    Messages:
    5,723
    State:
    Ohio
    I wish I could afford my own land.

    It's all about the haves and the have nots, if you have money then you buy land which gives you power, over the less fortunate.
     
  9. CountryHart

    CountryHart New Member

    Messages:
    10,914
    State:
    missouri
    In Missouri, it's my understanding the landowner own's up to the waters edge. As far as the public right of way at a bridge, i would have to question that. Perhaps a knock on his door when your not fishing, could patch things up and access be granted. It's worth a shot, and if not, you did your part.
     
  10. dieselcat

    dieselcat New Member

    Messages:
    406
    State:
    Washington, Mis
    :0a26::smile2:I know of a person around my area that is like that,there is a new law that went into effect last year on 8/28/2007 and it says-DESIGNATES 100-YEAR FLOOD PLAINS AS "HUNTING HERITAGE PROTECTION AREAS"WHERE HUNTING SHALL NOT BE PROHIBITED.i know this has nothing to do with the conoeing incident but will still be usefull for some!It states that subject to all applicable state and federal laws,and any local laws in effect as of august 28 2007,the discharge of firearms for hunting,sport, and other lawful purposes shall not be prohibited in hunting heritage protection areas,which are defined as the 100 year fllodplains of the missouri and mississippi rivers as designated by the federal emergency management agency:wink:
     
  11. whisker maniac

    whisker maniac New Member

    Messages:
    2,712
    State:
    arkansas
    The road was probably public and he couldn't get you for that but once you stepped off the road and down to retrieve your canoe or launch it is when you were legally trespassing. The road and bridge are public unless it is on a private drive. If you pulled your truck off the road to be out ot the way of other traffic then you were also in the wrong. When your tires left the road to park you were on his land and that is how he could have nailed you for trespassing.

    In an area where there is housing or farmland it is always best to find out about details, ownership and rights thereof, and to make sure your perfectly legal in what you are doing or make sure you get permission first. Even if you think your in the right and there should be no problem if there is houses or farms close by go and ask permission anyway. Just shows common curtisy and keeps you and all fishermen from getting a bad name or rap. It is best to always keep a pleasant repor with the locals that live near by. If your fishing on or near someones land and may have used there land to gain access to the water and have permission it is also curtious to take them some fish that you have caught to show your gratitude.
     
  12. crazy

    crazy New Member

    Messages:
    2,090
    State:
    Kansas CIty, MO
  13. Boomer

    Boomer New Member

    Messages:
    1,037
    State:
    Oklahoma
    I have had my fair share of run ins with land owners. But I found that by asking permission most will let you fish on them at least. I always on the way out offer up some of my catch, and clean up after myself. I remember one old rancher, I asked him if he wanted some fish, I hadnt cleaned them yet, and he told me he would love some, but didnt know how to clean or cook them. I filet the bass I had caught, and gave him my recipe for cooking them.

    I saw him a couple of weeks later, I ran inot him in town, and he told me there was a better pond on his place, and he said those were the best fish he had had in awhile.....lol I think he was hinting around for me to come back out. A couple of weeks later I took him some catfish I had caught.
     
  14. BKS72

    BKS72 New Member

    Messages:
    3,361
    State:
    East of KC
    One thing to remember is that a lot of these guys act that way because they've probably been trespassed on in the past or had some type of property damage, whether littering or something more serious.

    I know a big point of contention in IL where I grew up was people rutting up the field roads to go fishing after a big rain. No big deal to the guy fishing, but a true hassle to the farmer who had to drive over the ruts all summer long. It's "little" things like that that cause places to get posted.


    You guys have seen the way a lot of people treat public accesses, would you be falling over yourself to let people on your land after seeing the conditions at the local bank fishing spots? Remember that the landowners don't know you and it's most likely going to take some time until they realize you're going to leave the place at least the way you found it if not better if they give you access.

    Sorry to hear you trip ended on a bit of a down note, but hopefully you can visit the guy when he's in a better mood, explain what you're doing, and see if you can get future access.
     
  15. tufffish

    tufffish New Member

    Messages:
    1,196
    State:
    Texas
    in texas you can be fined up to $1000 for trespassing and it goes up to $2000 if you have a gun. now at a bridge it is gonna be interesting. now where i live we have a nice private lake that a major hwy. goes across. you can fish on the hwy. r.o.w. but if you get out in the water you are trespassing. i know people that have challenged the landowner and lost. your state law on navigatable streams will determine if you can use the stream or not. an easy way to find out is call or write your dept of wildlife and ask about that stream.
     
  16. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    The problem doesn't lie with the right to own to own land and the rights associated with land ownership.
    The problem is that both the ownership party and the non-owner are grossly negligent in knowing the laws and the rights of either party.
    Not just in this case. This is NORMAL.

    Often times the landowner is made out to be a bad guy but he has a set of rights that the tresspassers may not have. Ownership rights. Its within his ownership rights to enforce or ignore those rights.
    The same can be said of Joe Smoe wade fishing or portaging a yak.
    He does have some rights as a non owner but they aren't worth 5 cents if he doesn't even know what they are.
    If you dont know your rights ,don't expect one of us evil landowners to tell you what they are.
     
  17. micus

    micus New Member

    Messages:
    524
    State:
    Lake St. L
    In Missouri, counties or state can make it illegal to park on the right of ways and approaches to a bridge. Generally the concern is more about safety, It doesn't take much effort to check ahead of time if you are going to use a particular bridge for access. Keep in mind that once you are above the high water mark, you are trespassing on someone unless the owner has given you permission to do so. There can also be disagreement on just what is the high water mark.

    It always amazes me the lack of respect some people on these threads have for land owners. How would you like it if one of us started doing "lawn jobs" in your front yard? My policy has always been "If I can't tell you've been there, I don't care", but if I get "attitude", vandalism, littering, etc. it will be your last visit.
     
  18. JERMSQUIRM

    JERMSQUIRM New Member

    Messages:
    13,145
    State:
    il-waynesv
    my understanding in illinois is if your standing in the water your on his property. but in the canoe your not. he doesnt own the water and cannot stop traffic from passing. but wading your tresspassing.

    as far as the road. i would think theres a state boundry. if your vehicle breaks down where do ya park in the middle of road?? i believe just off the pavemant is state ground. under the bridge. im not sure of. ide talk to the sherriff and ask him weather what was done was illegal. they cant arrest you for asking they need a complaint. so dont tick him off and do it again and say call cops. just go ask cops first.

    tell them that you would like to know if you park just off road and pull canoe right down next to bridge and put in water if its trespassing? how far the state owns as a boundry.

    theres a creek here thats runs along the road for a mile. right next to road like 20 ' off it. folks have fished there for years. its state owned.

    and i had a county deputy stop one night i had a small fire and he stopped to check. after he found me just fishing he checked my id and ran the plates. told me he would inform the county police he had stopped so i wouldnt be checked again. as he was walking away he said "do you have permission from the landowner?" i siad" i thought this was state ground right off the road, ive fished here for 20 years and never was told to leave." he said "ok. just wondered." and left.
     
  19. GaryF

    GaryF New Member

    Messages:
    3,649
    State:
    O.P., KS
    Missouri has pretty liberal laws in terms of allowing stream use, even allowing you to be out on the river bank to the "ordinary high water mark", whatever that is. Really the only question is whether you are trespassing to get to the stream. At a bridge or adjacent to a roadway it can be hard to tell where the right of way ends.
     
  20. rush_60

    rush_60 New Member

    Messages:
    1,719
    State:
    Troy, KS

    Go to that counties courthouse, and go to either the treasurers office or the appraisers office. Ask if they have a plot book for sale. They should be around $20. They show you who owns land, where people live, roads, streams. They even have the Addresses and phone numbers of the people that own the land. They are well worth the money if you hunt, trap, or fish. They only thing they dont show is who owns land inside towns.