Question for Monsieur PeeWee (The Mountain Man) Williams

Discussion in 'General Conversation' started by postbeetle, Nov 17, 2007.

  1. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

    Messages:
    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    Peewee, do you know what an "original" hog is? I'll never forget my Dad buying store bought pork the first time. Ma cooked it and it was "original" I can still see him taking Ma's fry pan out the back door. We butchered our next hog at home.

    Will your way of taking the gaminess out of hog and bear work with an "original"?
     
  2. peewee williams

    peewee williams New Member

    Messages:
    3,111
    State:
    Pembroke,Georgia
    Never heard the term applied to fresh meat.Some old folk called canned meat "original"or "government" hog,cow or chicken."Spam" was one.A old cook in the navy used this term on our big square tin cans of meat in the Navy.He started out as a Army cook,got out and came back into the Navy years ago.He retired with 30 years service soon after I met him.Was your dad a vet or been raised with or around a vet? Where was this,how old was your Dad and where was he raised?What I don't know,I always try to find out.The "Granmaw"and old time way I stated for soaking meat,worked on and tended to remove all flavor equally.As you have noticed,salt or brine cured meat has lost flavor in the cureing.I only used it to keep from throwing away meat as I have no problem with most game.It also helps remove the blood in bloodshot meat.Into the 60's,I know that garbage fed hogs could be raised and sold as long as the meat was processed for and canned.I do not remember when this was stopped,but it was.I also do not know when the law was changed to require the canning.I know that they use to be sold like and as regular hogs.I liked the corn fed pastured or field grown hog taste the best.Peanut fed hogs had a real soft almost liquid fat with a taste that some preferred.Garbage fed hogs had a taste all of their own.The cement floor primary soybean hog feed fed hogs taste like the pork of today.No taste but what you add in my opinion.The sames goes for chicken,pork,fish and eggs commercially raised.Most of the younger folk know of no other taste.I love you Brothers and Sisters.peewee
     

  3. oh no

    oh no New Member

    Messages:
    11,108
    State:
    Indiana
    Pee Wee you are right on this store bought meat. It all tastes the same.
     
  4. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

    Messages:
    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    Alfred, we came from an almost entirely Boheme community. I can remember my Dad using this term forever. Whether Boheme in origin or from someplace else it meant a hog or any animal that had a retained testicle, either abdominal or inguinal.

    Remember when you picked those pigs up and somebody came along with a penknife or scalpel blade and whacked them while they bit your ankles. These hogs had a missed cohones. Dad used to talk about pork in the service that had this problem. They got put on the finishing floor or pen and fed like everybody else.

    The problem was it made their meat stink when you cooked it. I really can't describe it. It was like picking up a road kill coon and cooking it with the hair on it. If you ever smell it you will not forget it. This meat Ma cooked came from the butcher shop, and Dad had a hard time buying meat for a long time after that.

    An aside, remember those hogs raised on slop? Corn and/or oats with separator milk in a 50 gallon barrel fermented. The flies around it so thick you couldn't see thru them. It made the best pork imaginable. I will guarantee you there has not been a piece of pork produced with that flavor and goodness in the last 40 years. Everything tastes like water now. That stuff also made the best chum you could find, not this weakneed stuff now.

    Thanks PeeWee for your response. I appreciate it. John.
     
  5. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

    Messages:
    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    Alfred, we also called these "one lunger's".
     
  6. olefin

    olefin New Member

    Messages:
    3,908
    State:
    Texas
    Hope I'm not intruding but I've never heard of "original hog".

    I was raised on slop fed hogs. Sometimes we fed em jackrabbits when the slop was too poor or had run out of milo maze. Also fed the milk from our cream separator.
    Scalded them in a 55 gal barrel half way in the ground set at a 45 degree angle. I always hated the scraping part but loved the fresh ribs and tenderloin. There is nothing like the homemade sausage and sugar cured ham. There was nothing wasted about a hog, even the feet and the head.

    After we married I help my in laws do their beef butchering. But in the picture I'm helping wife's grandpa watch or boss. My mother in law could almost butcher one by her self but she could do anything. The dogs are waiting on the guts and stomach. I noticed the outhouse in the back ground, haven't noticed that before. :big_smile:
     
  7. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

    Messages:
    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    I love ya Ole. Intrude? Other than God there isn't anybody on here older than you. I respect my elders.

    Grandpa always got to shoot the hog. Loaded in a pickup, he would poke that 22 through the endgate and pop that hog. Stick it, drag it out, dip it in scalding water and the scrapping began. Grandma and Ma doing the butchering after that hog was gutted. Remember those "cracklings" when they rendered the fat into lard. And oh my the headcheese. Ole lets butcher a hog tomorrow. I got the kettle, you bring the hog. Nancy needs the cracklings, she has been loosing too much weight lately.
     
  8. Phil Washburn

    Phil Washburn New Member

    Messages:
    7,680
    State:
    Shawnee OK
    oh John, you had to mention head cheese......my dad used to bring us mountain oysters..i ate them a few times, and them it dawned on me that the night before we had them i heard hogs screaming:angry: ..finally put 2+2 together and haven't had them since:smile2:

    mom made the best head cheese. made it in a loaf the same size of rainbow bread. slice a piece off and, voila! you had a great sandwich. haven't had head cheese in 40 years:big_smile:
     
  9. Phil Washburn

    Phil Washburn New Member

    Messages:
    7,680
    State:
    Shawnee OK
    John, you mentioned bohemiam community ties...when i was maybe 11 or 12, dad had a garage next to a local highway...i was sweeping floors when he went to town for parts one day and i heard squealing tires...looked up and saw this old maybe 48 to 50 model ford pickup swerve back and forth a couple of times and then the driver lost control and gently rolled it on the shoulder.

    i ran up to see about the driver (it landed on the drivers side). he was crumpled up, but didn't seem hurt. i opened the door and helped him out. he was about 55 or so years old. long beard. i asked if he was ok and he assured me was, tho he clearly shaken up. i asked if i could do anything for him, and he hesitated a min and then asked for a glass of milk and an egg. i ran the 1/4 mile to the house and got him a big glass of milk (we had a couple of milk cows-fresh milk :) ) and a fresh egg..we also had chickens:wink: ...he promptly cracked the egg and put it RAW into the glass of milk and chug-a-lugged it......he thanked me profusely and seemed to be immediately better, tho i was now somewhat nauseous:crazy:

    turns out he was a bohemian on the travel...nice guy, but dad never seemed too happy with me giving him fresh egg and milk:confused2:

    in retrospect, i think dad was less pleased with my unlimited hospitality than the loss of an egg and a quart of milk.....no doubt he feared for my safety. miss dad
     
  10. olefin

    olefin New Member

    Messages:
    3,908
    State:
    Texas
    Was the same at our house only it was my dad that did the shooting with the old single shot 22. Funny, he didn't trust anyone with that chore, even my brothers that were 15 years older than me. Hog and beef killing was the only time I saw him shoot a 22.

    Sure do. How about crackling cornbread. I posted my mothers recipe for hot tamales on another thread... they were made from old hens that had quit laying, of course lots of hog lard was used in the recipe.
    Hog lard made everything taste better. Mom made all our lye soap, the first shampoo I ever used was in the USAF. After that I saw my first dandruff. :sad2:

    Man, that sounds good! I don't think I'd mind the scraping. :big_smile:
     
  11. peewee williams

    peewee williams New Member

    Messages:
    3,111
    State:
    Pembroke,Georgia
    I have heard of "Proud cut" half cut,one testicle and of a third testicle coming down later.I have personally known of this as I helped cut two out of a colt one time and months later,another came down.At 30 months of age he jumped a fence and misjudged his jump over a speeding MG sports car going down Georgia Highway 17.Luckily for the driver and the passenger,he landed right behind the seat.He got up and ran away.Hard to believe but he was just bruised and skint up.A miracle being it was a horse.Not so good with the car.Back half was flat.Had this horse been a barrow or steer it would have gone to market and we would never have known about the third testicle.I bet that there is not one out of a thousand people that tote a three bladed Stockman pocket knife with a "spey"blade that knows the name of the blade and what it is designed for.I always thought that Navy cook called that meat what he did because it was so old.Like it came from the original or first stock on earth.It had several "reprocessing dates on it going back to the 40's on some of it.It had the consistency of cool lard.You could scoop out a handful and squeeze it through your fingers.No one would eat it.They issued it to get rid of it.Do people of your ethnic background use this term for all bad tasting meat?We would also get boxes of Claxton chickens cut up the old way.These boxes would have "Whole cut up Claxton chicken" on them.These chickens would have as many as 12 necks,8 backs,6 wings,4 thighs,4 drumsticks,1 breast with 1 wishbone cut from it.Often they were full of pinfeathers.This was before the wing craze.I truly believe that many were old layed out hens due to the size and toughness.I now live 17 miles from Claxton,Georgia.I still ain't found one of those weird chickens with the 12 necks and 8 backs after 40 years of searching.They must have killed them all out and sold them to the navy.This was before the wing craze.I have seen American Bison,Water Buffalo and Cape Buffalo.I ain't been able to find the first wing on any.Being you are a veterinarian,could you possibly tell me where those wings are located on a Buffalo?Also why Water Buffalo are all racially prejudice.I have yet to meet one that did not hate white skin.They see it right through darkness,camouflage,paint and walls.American Bison and Cape Buffalo are not prejudice.They will happily kill any human! A lot of these young hog hunters claim that boars taste good to them.Could it possibly taste good if you are gay?A gay acquaintance once told me that they have different taste.I did not ask him what he meant.Perhaps I should have.I will try to remember to ask him if I see him again.Some have told me that they "can't tell the difference in boar meat.I sure can.A taste like this would explain why so many young folk drink Budweiser.A lot of military canned meat was the cheapest animals that they could buy.Bulls,old cows,boars,sows roosters and laying hens.Now I have known farmers to get angry with rowdy stock and swear that their Mules,Horses,Cattle,Hogs and Chickens to have a dog for a mother.Weird breeding program?I love you Brothers and Sisters.peewee
     
  12. peewee williams

    peewee williams New Member

    Messages:
    3,111
    State:
    Pembroke,Georgia
    I still eat it all,along with Beef Tripe and liver pudding.Tripe,pudding,Hogs Head Cheese,cracklings are all still sold down here.I also love Beef or Deer Tongue boiled with Garlic,cloves,onion.salt and pepper.After cooking skin it,chill it and when chilled,slice it up for sandwiches.I never liked mountain oysters or the lungs (Lites).It is just my taste.I love deer but do not like Goat or Sheep.I also love Scrapple a great big whole lot (as my son use to say many years ago) but have not been able to find any to eat down here in the last 5 years.I also use to make a wicked Brunswick Stew with a hogs head,chicken and beef.What is bad is that I don't get hungry and I can't eat but about 1/2 cup at a meal with out paying for it big time.If I never eat again,I have surly ate my share and way,way more!I had Squirrel,cooked in brown gravy on Grits for supper.WOW! That was GOOD!I love you Brothers and Sisters.peewee
     
  13. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

    Messages:
    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    Delicacies I miss:

    1 1/2 inch steaks with marbling that looked like snow, a fat edge, the thicker the better. The first thing my Dad would eat on a good steak was the fat. He often would not eat the meat until his midnight snack time. Mom could sear a steak that any backyard grill guy would envy.

    The tenderest veal from a hand picked dairy calf. I always had a hard time with these. We kids were responsible for their care. It was tough to butcher them, but man were they good eating.

    Old fashioned yard run chickens, geese, ducks, guineas and turkeys. Meals on wheels they were. The old egg burnt out hens for roasting. Even when she culled them they were always fat and in good condition. Goose duck and turkey after the weather got cold could be an everyday meal, not just on the holidays.

    Home crock fermented sauerkraut with lots of caraway seeds. Potent enough to pucker your mouth like a lemon, but so good you couldn't stop eating it. It always went good with game. I have caught my dad in the kitchen at 2:00 am spooning it right out of the jar.

    Goose or guinea egg noodles. Best noodle soup you ever ate.

    New potatoes, the little tiny ones that tasted like mother earth. A Sunday dinner treat.

    Goose blood and barley sausages with home processed casings. Grandpa knew it made us gag so he would do it deliberately. He had a long thin bladed knife he would run down a goose throat, twist it to get them bleeding then hang them on a line head down. They bled into a bowl. As they were bleeding he would say "Watch this boys!" He would pick that goose head up and let the blood flow into the back of his mouth with a big grin on his face. Now that was Boheme.

    Home cured hams, bacon and side pork. Those were an everyday meal also.

    Homemade ice cream out of a hand churned maker. The biggest problem getting enough ice and salt to get her finished.

    Phil, that egg thing I have seen repeatedly. Dad would crack any kind of egg, duck, guinea, turkey, goose, chicken and dump it in his mouth and swallow it raw.

    Climbing into the rafters of the barn for squab. I had a problem with these. They were good but the little guys were cute and helpless.

    Moms beef or deer mincemeat pie. Old fashioned time consuming but so good with that homemade ice cream. She preferred deer but it was tough to get in our neck of the woods.

    Home grown berries and fruit of every kind made into everything imaginable. Preserves, pies, breads. I can see Ma pouring paraffin on the tops of her jars now.

    Last for now. Bread, homemade bread of all kinds and loaves of Houska and kolaches, rye bread, wheat bread. So many kinds. The work involved, the kneading and baking. But like milking cows it was something done almost every day.

    I am getting hungry, think I'll go to McDonald's and get a cheeseburger, LOL.
     
  14. peewee williams

    peewee williams New Member

    Messages:
    3,111
    State:
    Pembroke,Georgia
    I can just see the kids of today,50 years from now talking about all of their great eating in their day.McDonalds sausage and biscuits for breakfast,burgers and fries for lunch.Fresh out of the freezer,home microwaved TV dinners for dinner.(Breakfast,Dinner and Supper to us)Bragging about getting up early in a cold house of 72 degrees because the thermastat had not autamaticly kick in the heat to 8o at the preprogramed time yet.Having the great tasteing frozen walfles,pancakes and sausage straight out of the microwave for breakfast.
     
  15. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    It used to be that a pork farmer was paid on weight.
    He is paid on fat content now.
    He has a weight window he has to be in.
    1 pound under or one pound over he gets nothing for the hog and doesnt get the hog back. The problem with pork today is that it is too lean.
    A pig pickin pig aint what it used to be.
     
  16. gardengrz

    gardengrz New Member

    Messages:
    899
    State:
    wakeman,ohio
    man, im gettin hungry :smile2: :cool2:
     
  17. peewee williams

    peewee williams New Member

    Messages:
    3,111
    State:
    Pembroke,Georgia
     
  18. peewee williams

    peewee williams New Member

    Messages:
    3,111
    State:
    Pembroke,Georgia
    Just another way for a book keeper to legally steal.The only way to have decent tasting domestic stock is to raise and butcher it yourself.You can normally buy way cheaper than you can raise it as the amateur usually can't compete with the knowledge,efficiency and volume of a professional pig farmer even with free food.I found this out with my "Ossabaw Island","Mule Foot","Red Wattle",and "Guinea" hogs in the 70's-90's.Now these were not the best breeds for feed conversion,but they would eat anything and literally feed at night on bare concrete if you had a light overhead to draw the bugs.A Mole Cricket and a Tobacco Moth must have a wonderful taste the way that they would fight over them.Great mousers and raters too.I saw one of my Mule foot sows ambush,catch and eat my neighbors cat.She asked about missing cats regularly while I had those hogs.I suspected "swine play" in all of the missing cats cases.I have resisted the greatest of temptation to feed some folk that I have known to them.I love you Brothers and Sisters.peewee
     
  19. SSgt Fishslayer

    SSgt Fishslayer New Member

    Messages:
    1,241
    State:
    south carolina
    i mist say that i know that most of the younger generations in the world today do not know much about home raised beef, prok or chicken. i on the other hand am not one of those people. we have been raising and slaughtering our own livestock since before i was even thought of. i remember when i was 4 we went to my grandparents house in baltimore (dads parents) and while we were eating dinner i explained in detail how to slaughter a hog. i was raised on home grown food and i hate store bought anything. we raised a garden in the summer, canned alot of it, and thats what we ate in the winter. we would slaughter a hog right after the first frost and that was the meat for the winter. so, some of us "youngsters" know exactly what you are talking about.
     
  20. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    This operation here is a 2000+ sow operation. Breed to finish.
    12 boars keep 2000+ sows finding.
    You are talking about a hog that is born and ready to market within 3 months.

    I've gotten where I cant stand pulled pork. There is no flavor there.
    I'd rather have chopped pork because you can blend some of the fat and skin in it to bring back some of the flavor lost in making pork the other white meat.

    The best BBQ hogs are the slop raised hogs.



    There is a new system on one of the hog farms. Its a milk system.
    Several companies bring in out of date ice cream and milk and dump it in tanks.
    That is then fed to the hogs saving literally tons in feed costs a week.
    I wonder if there is a taste difference from that farm to this farm.