Question about flooring my boat...

Discussion in 'Boat Tips' started by KansasKatter, Oct 4, 2006.

  1. KansasKatter

    KansasKatter New Member

    Messages:
    807
    State:
    Wichita Kansas
    I am going to put a floor in my boat this weekend. I am going to put 1" dense foam insulation board (the kind they wrap houses with) and 5/8" pressure treated plywood over that, covered with some marine carpet. My question is this, at the front of the boat, where the natural floor slopes up at the front, would it be better to make the floor level, back to the middle seat, or have it follow the same contour of the boat floor?? Any reasons for one or the other, other than seats?
     
  2. riddleofsteel

    riddleofsteel New Member

    Messages:
    353
    State:
    NC
    From a previous post I noticed you bought an aluminium Jon boat. Do not use preserved wood in direct contact with aluminum. This is directly from the manufacterer's web site.

    http://www.ufpi.com/product/ptlumber/ptfaq.htm

    Unfortunately, boosting the copper content in lumber not only makes the new pressure-treated wood more expensive than the old, but it also makes the new stuff significantly more corrosive -- 5 times more to common steel, according to American Wood Preservers Association (AWPA) test results.
    Most people already know that they should use corrosion-resistant nails, screws, and connectors when they're building with pressure-treated wood. But now the stakes are higher. Due to the high risk of galvanic reaction between the copper-impregnated wood and any dissimilar metals, fasteners and flashings should be stainless steel and copper whenever possible. At the very least, you need to use better grades of galvanized fasteners. Unfortunately, the fastener grades aren't always marked on the boxes of nails and screws.

    Electrogalvanized stock is rated with a class scale that ranges from 5 to 110. Hot-dipped galvanization ratings are based on the actual weight of the coating. For example, a G-60 rating means that there's 0.60 oz. of zinc per sq. ft. of metal.

    The G-60 and G-90 hot-dipped coatings are what we've been using until now. But engineers suggest stepping up to the heavier G-185 coatings for hot-dipped galvanized products, and they recommend class ratings of 40 or above when using electrogalvanized fasteners, such as expansion bolts.

    Currently, G-185 is the best galvanized protection that you can buy. Simpson's ZMax line and USP Structural Connectors' Triple Zinc line both are rated at G-185. As for nails and screws, many of the composite coatings that are currently available are still good for the new treatments , but you should verify this by carefully reading the label.

    Perhaps the most important point to keep in mind relating to copper-based wood treatments and galvanic corrosion is to avoid aluminum flashings altogether. Aluminum corrodes quickly in the presence of high copper concentrations.
     

  3. riddleofsteel

    riddleofsteel New Member

    Messages:
    353
    State:
    NC
    I had a treated plywood floor with foam under it and treated decking boards for the side bunks in my Alumacraft Jonboat. I had just finished installing the seats, rod holders, and anchor cleats before I found out about the corrosion issue. We can thank the EPA that made wood treatment companies stop using arsenic and start using copper. Putting copper and aluminum in a boat with a little mosture turns the entire deck into a battery. The exchange of current will eventually erode your hull and support ribs. I know a guy that makes hand rails for decks and steps out of steel or aluminum. Since the new treated wood came out he has had to switch to stainless steel fasteners or heavy hot dip hardware. The copper treated wood will rot regular hardware in a few seasons. He showed me aluminum rail bases that look as if they were dipped into acid as a result of electrolysis.

    I stripped all my brand new treated wood out of my boat and installed a 3/8" diamond tread brite aluminum floor over the foam. The floor panel in my boat was 46.5" wide by 8'. Almost an entire sheet. I got it from a local metal fab shop for just under $185.00. In its original condition it is SHINEY and BRITE. It will blind you in the sun. I painted it with self etching automotive primer that left a dull diamond surface that will hold paint or glue. I finished mine with epoxy garage floor paint mixed with sand. It left a great, no slip surface that you just hose the catfish slime off of. The side bunks I replaed with sealed regular plywood.
    Your other option for the floor is to take a sheet of regular plywood and seal it with epoxy paint or spar urethane. Plywood sealed with several coats of quality product will not rot or mildew and will not corrode your boat.
     
  4. Coloman

    Coloman New Member

    Messages:
    441
    State:
    Soddy Daisy, Tn
    What about using marine grade plywood? Unless I missed it, would that be an alternative to treated?
     
  5. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    Why even use the treated plywood? This job is not one that is going to take a good part of your lifetime to complete-start to finish. Your effort may last three years longer with the treated wood, but should be just as easy, and probably cheaper, just to use an exterior plywood. Or, an exterior plywood sandwiched between fiberglass resin if your wanting more permance. Treated wood has valid applications in construction, but not so much in fishing.
     
  6. Stumpknocker2

    Stumpknocker2 New Member

    Messages:
    650
    State:
    NW FL
    A possibility you might consider is spraying rubberized undercoating, that you buy at the parts store in a spray can, and spray the perimeter of the plywood. That would seal it and eleminate any squeaky edges where the wood may touch the aluminum. It would most likely be the most cost effective also.
     
  7. KansasKatter

    KansasKatter New Member

    Messages:
    807
    State:
    Wichita Kansas
    Aw Shucks - You are going to have to fill me in on an exterior plywood that is not treated? I have been working construction for most my life in one form or another, and was under the impression that all exterior plywood is treated and sealed? Maybe there is something out there I am missing?

    I am going with the diamond plate idea. I have some good connections with some of the steel shops around here (as you could imagine with my job). I have put together a CAD drawing of the bottom of my boat, and they will cut the pieces to fit exactly in the bottom of my boat, notches around the gunnels and everything, for about $100. I will put that over some 2" foamboard that I have left over from another job. Now, should I make it level, or follow the contour of the boat? I am leaning towards making it level, so seating will be better, even if it is a lawnchair.

    I already have plans to paint the entire boat when I am done with everything else, and done using it for the winter. I need to get some pics, so I can post before and after.

    Winter plans include - putting livewell in the center seat, floor and paint, rework bottom end of the trailer, re-wire boat with new lights and switch plate for bilge pump, livewell pump, lights, etc., fishfinder, new tires for trailer, I think that is about it. All told, doing the work myself, I should have another $500 - $750 in it, with the $1500 I paid for the boat, I will have a darn nice rig for around $2000.
     
  8. KansasKatter

    KansasKatter New Member

    Messages:
    807
    State:
    Wichita Kansas
    David,

    Thanks for the info!! You probably saved me a lot of time, headaches, and money!
     
  9. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    Exterior plywood is constructed with a waterproof/water resistant glue which does not come apart in moisture and allow the plys to separate. Treated wood has chemicals added to make them more rot resistant. One thing I'd really like to caution you on is adding extra weight to the boat. A little hear, a little there, and your right close to exceeding the maximum weight allowance for you boat. I'd think you would be a whole lot better off going with the spray on liner mention above or just some heavy rubber mats cut to fit. Keep the boat as light as you can...your tackle box probably even has a couple of pounds of sinkers. Then there is your tackle, the bait, possible motor and gasoline, rod holders (even though small, they still add to the weight). Take the time to gather everthing up you would carry in your boat on a normal trip and then weigh your self and all the equipment on bathroom scales. You will probably be surprised to see you don't have much weight allowance left. It is a whole lot better safe than sorry - or even safe than comfortable.
     
  10. KansasKatter

    KansasKatter New Member

    Messages:
    807
    State:
    Wichita Kansas
    Aw shucks, I got ya on the plywood, problem is, although it is called Exterior plywood, it still has to be sealed, to make it truley weather proof. Treated plywood has the same glue, AND is treated. It is also primarily made for verticle use, not as decking. But I see your point.

    As far as the weight goes, the floor system will weigh a total of 25 or 30 lbs. The aluminum sheeting weighs about .5 lbs/sf, and the rigid isnulation, about .2lbs/sf. I think the benefit of having the floor will be worth adding 25 or 30 lbs to the boat. The boat has a 990lb rating. The motor weighs about 120lbs including fuel, I weigh about 235, brother about 195, both kids together about 175,we MAY have 50 lbs of gear between the 4 of us, but I doubt it, cooler may be 50 lbs, depending on how fast we drink the beer, :wink: . That is a worse case scenerio and we are still well under the rating, and the ratings are so conservative, it is not even funny.
     
  11. center12

    center12 New Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    State:
    KS
    100 bucks:eek:oooh: , when can I pick up mine. You got a steal there bud!!
     
  12. center12

    center12 New Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    State:
    KS
    Oh yea, I made mine level............don't need anything with a slope on it in the middle of the night.
     
  13. KansasKatter

    KansasKatter New Member

    Messages:
    807
    State:
    Wichita Kansas

    Especially with MY sea legs!! Or after a few cold ones.......it slants enough already! :big_smile:

    My steel guy has some aluminum diamond plate left over from another job that somebody did not pay for, so he is giving it to me at his cost, and cutting it is no big deal for them, just put in on the belt, load the CAD drawing, and let the machines do the rest! :crazy:
     
  14. bigredsbbq

    bigredsbbq New Member

    Messages:
    293
    State:
    Illinois
    mine is done with the foam between the ribs then covered with two big aluminum street signs then covered with carpet very profesionalaly trimmed out it looked great and i dont think I'll ever have to replace the floor again but over time my carpet has worn down so looking at recarpeting I've decided not to carpet the foor instead I'm gonna put down rubber mat cut to fit
    now I do have a front deck that is wood and it is getting to the point where I'm gonna have to replace it but I'm wanting to also put in a new console hopefully center console so I haven't quite decided on what I want to do with the front if anyone has ever built a console I might need some help there or possibly some ideas
    back to the point anyone considering putting down a wood floor in there boat might wanna look into the street sign idea its working out good for me
    Trevor
     
  15. riddleofsteel

    riddleofsteel New Member

    Messages:
    353
    State:
    NC
    You will love your aluminum floor. If you don't want carpet try painting the tread brite with self etching automotive primer and finishing the job with epoxy paint mixed with a little silica grit (sand). My floor is POSITIVE grip even covered in slime, mud or water. We were thinking duck hunting with wet dogs and hog sized catfish on the deck ect. Be sure to secure the deck to the support ribs so it doesn't start banging when the foam compresses. Use stainless steel hardware. It is worth the slightly higher price. Also be careful what kind of foam you use. The pink and blue construction foam you get from Lowes or Home Depot will displace water and cushion the noise but it disolves in gasoline. Take a small sample and try it. If you spill gas into your bilge, even a small amount. Your foam will begin to break down into Pepto Bismol pink or Smurf Blue mess. Try and find some closed cell foam that is petrol resistant. I was lucky enough to find some that was used in packing outboard engines. It was in panels the right size to fit right between the ribs and is petro proof.

    So far I have taken my 16x48 Alumacraft NCS and added;
    1. aluminum decking
    2. sealed plywood side bunks with Rod Saver rod storage holders
    3. Twin 500 GPH bilge pumps (one on each side of the rear)
    4. rear navigation pole light
    5. front nav light
    6. trolling motor and bracket
    7. front, center and rear swivel seats
    8. rod holders
    9. anchor cleats
    10. 6' of amber light rope on each side of the boat under the gunnel
    11. 12v 1000 candle power spot light
    12. two deep cycle marine batteries with 12v plugs on the top of each battery box for plug ins
    13. 13 HP Scavenger long tail mud motor


    http://yerfrockethellhound.com/boatpage1.html
     
  16. blackhorse83

    blackhorse83 New Member

    Messages:
    1,008
    State:
    missouri
    Nice boat sounds like you put a lot of time in to make it like you wanted it.
     
  17. zappaf19

    zappaf19 New Member

    Messages:
    1,574
    State:
    Monticello,IN
    I would make it flat. You could put a door in it and have a small storage area.
    Bill
     
  18. Coloman

    Coloman New Member

    Messages:
    441
    State:
    Soddy Daisy, Tn
    Jeff if your boat doesn't have one already you might want to put a bilge pump in before you get the floor in. Much easier to do it now! Just remember to have a "door" to access it for maintenance and replacement.
     
  19. KansasKatter

    KansasKatter New Member

    Messages:
    807
    State:
    Wichita Kansas
    It already has a pump in it, 750 GPH I think. I don't think I am going to put any floor in the Bilge area. This area will stay the way it is, I am going to build a little "deck" under the batteries, and fuel tank, to keep them up out of the water. I am going to just brake some aluminum sheet metal to form some boxes for that. To much stuff going on back there to cover it all up.

    I plan on painting the whole boat, I am checking on having a Line-Ex liner sprayed in the inside, and would like to have the bottom of the boat lined with it as well. They can do any color you want, and as thick as you want. The guy on the phone said he has never done a boat before, but he figured about $400, a little steep, but I think it would make a very nice surface. He said he would do just the bottom for $100 (outside bottom) I think I will do that for sure.
     
  20. riddleofsteel

    riddleofsteel New Member

    Messages:
    353
    State:
    NC
    Adding bed liner to the average boat will add 50 to 60 lbs to the boat's weight. THe color depends on what you plan to do with it. If it is primarly a fishing boat used in summer, then a light color or white will take on less heat from the sun but will also reflect a lot of light up to the operator. If you fish a lot at night that can be a good thing. Most duck boat guys like earth tones for camo and to not show mud and dirt from wadders and wet, muddy dogs.

    Most guys love thier liners for non slip and sound deadening properties. Watch the price as I have heard some mighty high prices quoted for these jobs. Try to get someone that has done boats before.

    As far as the bottom you need something slick, not textured. Steelflex superslick 9X-2000 and Frogspit are two items the mud motor boys are having great luck with. Check them out.

    Just a note;

    Depending on your setup consider a second bilge pump. Wire connections are prone to failure and pieces of fishing line and trash can stop a pump up at the worst times. I learned this the hard way in ocean conditions that involved a small boat, a cabin crusier that was out side the nav buoys and a strong outgoing tide. When you are half swamped, engine dead, drifting in surf, tide, or river current is NOT the time to try and figure why the bilge pump is not working.
    I have two 500 GPH pumps on my 1648, one in each rear corner. No matter what angle the boat is at or how much trash is in the bilge the boat will usually pump out. Also make sure all your electrical connections are soldered, coated in Vasoline and then covered in heat shrink tubing. The liquid electrical tape sold in boat stores works well also over soldered connections.

    Sounds like you will be getting your boat right.....enjoy!!