Plumbing

Discussion in 'Boat Tips' started by bigflathunter, Sep 16, 2005.

  1. bigflathunter

    bigflathunter New Member

    Messages:
    90
    State:
    Lawrence, KS
    As many know, I've got an old boat torn apart that's nearing completion. My flotation foam will be delivered today, as will the rest of the wood flour that I should have ordered the first time around. I'm planning on running a little plumbing under the floor for a livewell under the front deck. Before I can pour the foam, I need to run the plumbing, and that's probably going to be tomorrow or the next day. What kind of plumbing do you recommend, keeping in mind a couple things: Weight, durability, and price? My first thought was pvc, but then I got concerned that if it ever cracked I would be SOL. Copper tubing is out, too expensive for this boater, and it's pretty heavy. My next option is clear vinyl tubing for it's flexibility, but weight is kinda high, and at around .99/foot, it's a little pricey. I'm willing to splurge if it's recommended, though.

    Suggestions, thoughts? Thanks for your time.

    Aaron
     
  2. center12

    center12 New Member

    Messages:
    1,444
    State:
    KS
    You could probably order some of the corrogated hose used for bilges and aerator drains from Arnie's. Or you could do what one fellow did on a boat I bought.........good heavy garden hose. What ever I got I'd run it through PVC so I could pull it out in case something were to break. Crap happens in boats........you'll find that out soon enough!!
     

  3. fwmud

    fwmud New Member

    Messages:
    693
    State:
    Wilson's Mills,nc
    all my piping is PEX pipe. I already had it and the tools, crimp rings, ect. Plus it's rated for burail in concrete so it'll last.
     
  4. catmankev

    catmankev New Member

    Messages:
    442
    State:
    Valmeyer, Illinois
    You could use flexible PVC. Use the same type of glue that you would use on rigid PVC for the fittings.
     
  5. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    go with a 1" to 1-1/4" pvc.
    your water supply line whatever you decide to use can be pushed through this pipe.
    That way you can always change a line out.
    If it's on a boat, it will break at some point.
    slam an extra 3/4 line in there also, you'll find a use for it before it's over.
    make sure you have secured the lines in place somehow before you foam or you'll float the pipe out. I usually tack weld it in place with a dab of great stuff foam.
     
  6. turtle1173

    turtle1173 New Member

    Messages:
    611
    State:
    Mayfield, KY
    Aaron, where did you find the best deal on the closed cell foam? What weight did you get? What kind of floor did you put in?

    Getting ready to tear into mine :p
     
  7. bigflathunter

    bigflathunter New Member

    Messages:
    90
    State:
    Lawrence, KS
    Best deal is hard to say, it depends on what else you need. I bought mine from boatbuildercentral.com because I knew they had reliable shipping from ordering from them before. It was $84.00 per two gallon kit (gallon each of parts a and b). There were places out there that had it cheaper but none that I found sold wood flour, and if I paid shipping on two separate orders it would have come out to be more than to just buy it all from the same place even if it was a little more expensive for one of the items. The foam they sell is 2 lbs per cubic foot. Each kit yields eight cubic feet. The floor is approx 3/8 inch plywood on top of 1x6 stringers, all coated in epoxy, especially the end grain on any wood. The floor will be covered in 6 oz fiberglass cloth once glued in with 3M 5200 marine adhesive sealant.

    Mark, I'm not sure I know what you mean. Run one 1 1/4" pvc with my drain hose through it, and stick another 3/4" piece of pvc to the front in case I ever find a use for it?

    I plan on running the fill line under the port gunnel. I decided that rather than a through hull pump I'm going to mount an outside the transom pump for it. It doesn't look as clean, but it's one less hole in my hull. That will go through the transom well above the waterline, and under the gunnel to the front deck, where it will enter the deck and fill the livewell. All four compartments up front will be watertight with a drain in case water gets in them, and will tie to the same drain tube for the livewell. The livewell will also have an overflow that goes to the same drain tube. At the stern near the plug there will be a 750 gph auto bilge pump to empty the boat in case I decide to drain the livewell while on the lake. Too complex?

    Thanks,

    Aaron
     
  8. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    I thought you were running your fill line through the floor.
    I would just throw some assorted sizes of pipe in the floor from the bow to the center console and from the center console to the stern. The reasoning is if something doesn't work as planned or maybe it turns out you need to balance the boat to trim it, you have the ways and means already in the floor to get it done. Maybe even a 1/2 pipe from the console to each side of the boat in case you want to do some under gunnel lighting.
    Once that foam is in there it's too late to back up.
    That pipe is going to take up some space too. Less foam without alot of added weight.

    When you pour, pour one area. when it dries , trim off the excess and throw it in the next area. Your foam will go farther.
    you are foaming before putting the sole in in? Or are you being brave and holesawing 4 inch holes randomly through the sole and pouring?
    I like both ways depending on the boat but some folks drastically under estimate the destructive power of expanding foam. :eek:
     
  9. bigflathunter

    bigflathunter New Member

    Messages:
    90
    State:
    Lawrence, KS
    Is there something bad about running it under the gunnel? They come in from the sides about 4" and then go back down about 4", leaving plenty of room underneath for that plus any wiring.

    I'm pouring the foam in a little at a time and trimming it down even with the stringers using a broken high E string from my guitar. No way I wanna risk popping that sole loose when the foam expands.

    I like the idea of running some pipe from the console to the sides. I'll only need to run it one way though, since my console is attached to the right side already. Will putting a 1 inch hole in my stringers compromise structural integrity? The stringers at that point only rise about 4" off the floor to begin with. I doubt it would be a problem since they're glassed in with 6" 12oz tape.

    Thanks for all your help. I think this is going to be a lifelong hobby. I'm in serious debate about which plans to order next and build an entire boat. It's gotta be easier to build something when you've actually got plans to go from. :D
     
  10. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    You are doing fine. A one inch hole through the stringer isnt going to hurt its integrity. You built a Sherman tank for a stringer. 12 oz. Biax is no joke. :D

    You are addicted. You might as well not even fight it . Just go down to the bank and open up a special account for boat building funds.
     
  11. Southernraised84

    Southernraised84 New Member

    Messages:
    207
    State:
    Fayettnam, North Carolina
    Not trying to take over the thread but i have a quesiton about plumbing as well so i thought this would be the polace to post it.Keith this is mainly for you being that you did the plumbing on my boat...lol but neways the bilge (i know i didnt spell that right) pump in the back of my boat is letting water come back in whenever i have it all the way to the floor of the boat i was told by a freind of mine who is also a plumber the the check vavle may have gone bad just wondering if that was true or what yalls thoughts on it are?
     
  12. fish

    fish Active Member

    Messages:
    1,573
    State:
    ChattanoogaTenn
    Mark, that is a fantastic idea to put the PVC pipe under the floor for future repairs of the wiring and to add more wiring when needed.

    I am planning to replace all of the plywood and carpet in my boat with aluminum plating and this will really come in handy with future projects in the boat. Thanks a bunch.
     
  13. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    Jim, it's like receptacles in a house or shop. You can never have too many but you can have too few. :eek:
     
  14. fwmud

    fwmud New Member

    Messages:
    693
    State:
    Wilson's Mills,nc
    hehhe Thats the electrican in Mark coming out.
    Basically what hes saying is ALWAYS put spare pipes in the bildge under floor for future use.It's a trick we all learned running "slab work" or a "duct bank".
    Always put a couple more spares than you think you'll need. The peipe is cheap. Also, he posted on old board, "Use long sweep 90's fo the turnups". This is great also.
    The 1,1/4 or 1,1/2 pipe he spoke of is for a "chase pipe". Whatever you're running, you'll pull it thru this chase pipe. If the tubing/wiring ever goes bad/ develops a leak, you can just tie on a new one and pull it back thu the chase pipe.
    Tristan, yahoo me email or PM and I'll show ya how to check that check valve.
     
  15. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    These thru hull holes for plumbing are really no big deal.
    there is only really 2 ways to screw it up.
    1) Cutting the hole larger then the outside flange.
    2) Failing to attach a hose or device to the thru hull once installed.

    The way i do it is to cut my hole with a holesaw a little larger then the barrel or body of the thru hull fitting.
    This gives me room around the fitting to seal the edges of what I just cut a hole through.
    I seal the edges of the hole if its wood ideally with epoxy, but if I dont have any on hand and instead of buying a gallon I'll use 3M 5200.

    Once the hole edges are sealed put a little 5200 on the back of the flange and insert the thru hull. Tighten the nut on the back. Do NOT over tighten.
    Now what I suggest is that the first thing you attach to this fitting is a cut off valve.
    Prime example of why is I think Tristan posted on his bilge pump leaking this week. A simple valve would make this problem not a problem until you could repair your pump. He may even have a valve , I'm not trying to imply he doesnt.

    Try to avoid the nylon thru hulls. Spend a little extra for alot more durability.
    Those nylon fittings get brittle and break easy if something bumps them.

    As long as you use 5200 your job isnt going to leak or be easily removed.
    5200 is no joke. It's not a tube of silicone that can be easily peeled off.


    The key to these often simple installations on a boat is using the right materials. You can't cheat below the waterline and its not wise to do so above the waterline if you want the install to last and the integrity of your transom or hull to last.
    It's tempting to use that partial tube of silicone sealer you have left over from another project. Spring for a tube of 5200 or 4500 instead.
    Only difference between the two is 4500 is very capable but less permanent. It makes your installations removable. 4500 cures faster.