Patriots run up the score?

Discussion in 'NFL Talk' started by Phil Washburn, Nov 12, 2007.

  1. Phil Washburn

    Phil Washburn New Member

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    what poor sports the pats are...remember the flack they took on this board AND the national media when they whipped the skins???

    and the talk was all about how they weren't college, this was pros, and yada, yada, yada:smile2:

    let me tell you something from a COMPETITORS point of view...when someone spits in your face or challenges your ability to compete, it will raise your hackles...that's what the little spy thingy did to belichick...he is a great coach and the cheating affected NO games outcomes...and yet, the media (and ryan:wink:), yelled like someone that was juked out of their dime at a county fair:smile2:

    anywho, here is the link...notice this coach mouthed off and then the other team did the onside kick thing:smile2:


    http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=ap-wyoming-apology&prov=ap&type=lgns
     
  2. Ketch

    Ketch New Member

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    OK Phil, point taken. But I digress, did anyone "guarantee" a victory or do anything else so infuriating to the coach (other than the league catching him at violating the rules)?

    My team got smoked this weekend Phil, and I respected the Packers (Man I hope none of my buddies read this) for taking Favre out when they did. 20 points isn't a huge lead. 27 to me, in the 4th quarter is. I hate the Pack, but I respect how they handled it. And let me tell you, there is a lot of smack being talked between the two teams.
     

  3. Ictalurus Punctatus

    Ictalurus Punctatus New Member

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    Hey, You don't like it....Stop them. Let your play do the talking. Play lights out, wide open every down. Amazing that nobody whines about defenses who shut teams out, "Why don't they let us score? Are they trying to make us look bad? Boo Hoo hoo" No, they're trying to beat you, just like you should be trying to do to them. They're just better at it. It's not their fault they're good, it *is* your fault you suck. Go get better, stop whining.

    I don't like NE myself, but they are Just.. That.. Good this year.

    As far as being ticked off about an attempted onside kick?... Play good special teams, and make them pay for their arrogance. A coach should know better than to act like that. Lead by example, show some spotsmanship. At least he did apologize.

    Jon
     
  4. floundahman

    floundahman New Member

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    Chad there's a big difference in the Green Bay, Minnesota game and the Pats Washington game. First of all Brett Favre is old (in football terms) and Minnesota hadn't scored any points at all. Minnesota was not able to do anything to bring him back. Brady came out of the game against Washington but the Redskins picked Cassel's first pass off and ran it back for a TD. Football is a game of momentum and games can turn on one play. Brady came back into the game for one drive. He marched them down the field, scored the TD and went back to the bench. He changed the momentum back in the Pats' favor. There have been many teams that have piled up points in a hurry this year including Dallas, Detroit, and Cleveland late in a game. I believe Detroit scored 28 points in the fourth quarter of one game. So when is a game out of reach?
     
  5. Ketch

    Ketch New Member

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    Well, for our team, it was out of reach when Peterson went down.

    Detroit has been considered a playoff caliber team.

    I don't think the same has been said about Washington.
     
  6. jim

    jim New Member

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    One thing about GUARANTEEING sporting events,Crow tastes like crap no matter how you cook it.:smile2::wink::big_smile:After Joe Willie Namath everybody else is just a copycat anyway.:smile2::big_smile:Its those darn feathers,they get caught in your bridges,plates and cavities.:eek:oooh:If somebody just kicks your butt and runs up the score ,you cut the newspaper article out and post it on your BB,and use it for motivation ,not cry about it.Jeff Gordon yesterday admitted on the air that his team just flat got stomped!!! Didnt like it but admitted it.
     
  7. floundahman

    floundahman New Member

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    Detroit has been considered a playoff caliber team.

    I don't think the same has been said about Washington.[/quote]



    Chad, I realize that but look at the St. Louis-New Orleans game. The Rams were winless and the Saints still have a chance of winning their division. You can't base your game plan on the other team's playoff chances. You can only be concerned with the game at hand.
     
  8. Ketch

    Ketch New Member

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    Jim, I guess I meant more on what the teams are capable of rather than their actual playoff chances. The reference was a poor assumption at best that playoff caliber teams are more likely to be able to make a comeback. It should have said that the skins were a bottom of the pack kinda team IMHumbelO.

    I also realize that none of us played pro ball, so we are basing all our banter and debate on personal feelings with no relevant experience in the matters at hand. That being said, I did play football in high school (yeah I know, glory days, blah blah blah, lol). We were really bad. We got beat a LOT sometimes by a LOT. If someone rubbed it in our faces (by running up the score), we tried to HURT them, because we couldn't beat them.

    If the Pats, Colts, or anyone else wants to run up the score on someone, I can deal with that. But the minute they come whining when someone takes a cheap shot on them for doing it, it will fall on deaf ears here.
     
  9. FATFLATTIE

    FATFLATTIE New Member

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    Yeah, they have ran the score up. There is no question about it. I don't care about the lame excuses that Bill has for his team putting it to the other teams late in games. I don't feel sorry for any of the teams that got the crap kicked out of them. Hey, the Pats may be terrible next year for whatever reason and it'll be their turn. It's not 1st grade peewee football. Nobody does or should care about the feelings of the opponent. I however won't feel sorry for the Pats if somebody does take offense to it and takes a cheapshot at some of the Pats players.
     
  10. floundahman

    floundahman New Member

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    Quite frankly if Tom Brady was taken out of a football game when the score gets out of hand, then he'd only be playing half of most of their games. That's not what he gets paid to do. I have a hard time believing that anyone should have sympathy for a team of professional football players that gets beat badly, but not for someone injured by a cheap shot. That lacks decency. Getting humiliated in a high school game where teams are made up of players from a particular geographic area, and not based on ability, is far different than being humiliated in a game where the teams all have access to the same talent pool. Tom Brady was a 6th round draft pick. Every team in the league had multiple opportunities to get him. That's the only time anyone should have "gone after" him. Now he's making every other team in the league pay for not picking him. And he's doing it the right way, by beating them on the field.
     
  11. Ketch

    Ketch New Member

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    Ok, let's relate this to t he real world then. I used to be a foundry supervisor (dirty hot miserable job) and my people needed to get X amount done. If they got it done early, the job is already done, they earned their money. I can let them take it a little easier the rest of the day. Tomorrow, I will have X+a little bit more, but for that day, they can rest easier.

    I'll take Tom Brady to play HALF of every game this season if he has the game in the bag by the time he wants to sit. Guess what, I am still gonna pay him full price, he achieved what I asked him to do, WIN.

    I never said cheap shot. If my job is to stop a running back for example, does that mean I need to gently put him down? No (and I don't think that is what you are proposing). But if I know I got him, I might tackle him with just as much as I need to. If that guy was running up the score on us, I would hit him that much harder (hurt) him. Not trying to injure him, just let him know I wasn't happy. I still did my job, I tackled him.

    I am a very competitive person in most things I do in my life (my wife calls it a guy-thing). If someone humiliates me, it pushes me harder. Not by some intentional thing I got to think about, but a fire inside of me takes over. Aggression, raw unadultered aggression.

    I don't like the fact that some teams give up at the end of the game. I can't see how they can when they should be really happy to get paid to do something that many of us would do for free. And they get paid really good at what they do as well. Just because another team gives up, I don't think that makes unsportsmanlike behavior acceptable.

    IMHumbleO.
    Chad
     
  12. floundahman

    floundahman New Member

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    NFL football is not the real world, and these guys aren't working in a foundry. They're not "making widgets" so to speak. They are in the entertainment business and their customers are paying for the show. I don't want to pay full ticket price to watch Matt Cassel play (at this point). Sponsors don't pay for adds during a game only to have star athletes sit on the bench. I'm sure that your interest in last Sunday's Vikings game when Adrian Peterson went down (as did everyone else's). Sunday's game against the Bills was moved to prime time. Why? Not because it's supposed to be the best game on Sunday, but because people will be watching to see if Brady and the Pats will continue to make history, or root against them and hope they lose (as I did the Colts last Sunday). If your employees met their quota and you gave them a break, good for you. The quota for these guys is to win the Superbowl, no rest until then. These guys are not "work-a-day" men making "work-a day" pay.
     
  13. Little Luey

    Little Luey New Member

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    I don't completly agree with your point. See if I am understanding you correctly, the way you put it, on last Sundays game between the Vikings and the Packers, after there is an X amount of points advantage then it becomes the Packers responsability not to emberres the Vikings by scoring more points?!?! or any other team for that matter?!?
    That does not make sence, the offence has a job to perform and the defence has to stop them, if your offence is better than my defence you will more than likely score more times than I can stop you. The same way in your job, if you are good at it your job will seem easy to do, if you have a new employee or someone who does not know the job well enough, he/she will have a hard time doing what you do, in comparison with you, they will strugle. Now this new employee can do two things, get better at it or give up and go do something else.
    As a supervisor you train your poeple to help them become the best they can be, coaches have the same job, make the team better, it is not the others team coach job to make your team look good, or not so bad on the field.
    You ever seen strippers feed on boils of shad? that is what the "running up the score" resembles to me. The big fish eating the little fish untill they are satisfied or the little fish are gone. You have your big fish (NE) and your little fish (Wash) going at it. Is it the big fish fault that they can eat the small fish? NO, they do what is natural to them. NE is a scoring machine just like the basketball Dream team is, and I don't see anyone feeling sorry for the other contries national teams who have lost to the USA team.
     
  14. Ketch

    Ketch New Member

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    469
    State:
    Minnesota
    I in no way meant that it was the Packs job to not make my team look bad. The Packs offense has a responsibility to score enough points to WIN the game. The Vikes defense has the responsibility to not let them. It is not the Packs responsibility to not embarass us, that is our teams responsibility.

    My job is to have the right people in place to do the job at hand. If I don't have the right people, I need to give them the tools (training, mentoring, physical tools, etc.) to be able to become the "right" person for the job. If my team gets their job done, my bosses are happy. That makes me look good, and my people look good. If we continue to do our job successfully, then we make the company more money. If we have free time, we find other productive things to do (lean improvements, meetings, etc.).

    None of my guys get to take it easy until everyone gets their job done. If someone isn't carrying their weight, the employees help police themselves by motivating the guy holding them up.

    This is the exact point I was trying to make. The coaches job is to win games and make the team better. Tom Brady is an excellent performer, but what happens when he goes down? Practice is one thing, but if given the opportunity to work with the first stringers, they can develop a repoir that will help if anything should happen to Brady. If Brady goes down, the 16-0 talk goes away. Not that the Pats aren't a good team, but Brady is the reason they are as good as they are. That, and his ability to adjust his game to the people he has and make them better.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  15. Little Luey

    Little Luey New Member

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    740
    State:
    Arizona
    Got you.
    So how is it bad for any team to score points, isn't that what they get paid to do? If all the training and mentoring you do at work reflects on a weeks production with your rates going up and your defects going down; just as a football teams "production" is to score more points than the opponent with as few mistakes (TO, INTs) as possible. How is that different? your company would like to eliminate your cometition so they are the only ones making "X" product and benefit the most, right? they don't care about the other companies, just like the Coke and Pepsi comercials a few years back where both drivers seem to have a competition going on but at the end they are friends. I worked for Pepsi Cola when those commercials came out, I can tell you the competition is real, the camaradery is not. If we outsold Coke on a district it was good for the company and our bosses where happy. The same way I am sure the CEOs on the NE and Colts teams are about their teams performance.
     
  16. Little Luey

    Little Luey New Member

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    740
    State:
    Arizona
    Check this out, talk about running the score up

    NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- Lipscomb came within a point of setting the Division I women's record for biggest winning margin with a 123-22 rout of Fisk on Tuesday night.
    With the 101-point victory, the Lady Bisons were a point short of the mark set by Grambling against Jarvis Christian on Feb. 12, 1986.
    Valerie Bronson scored 20 points and grabbed 15 rebounds to lead the Lady Bisons (1-2), who shot 57 percent from the field. Cree Nix added 14.
    Tia Williams had eight points to lead Fisk (0-2), which was 9-for-54 from the field.
    Lipscomb outrebounded Fisk 67-19 and led 61-10 at the half.

    Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press

    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/news/story?id=3109357

    on ESPN they said the bench score 86 points (I think), they did not leave the starters in the game for long and still got a big win.
     
  17. Ketch

    Ketch New Member

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    State:
    Minnesota
    Here is the difference in our opinions. I feel they get paid to win, not to score points.
     
  18. Ketch

    Ketch New Member

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    469
    State:
    Minnesota
    If the score got run up by the 2nd teamers, I am fine with it.

    I do hope that every player that suited up got to play...
     
  19. Little Luey

    Little Luey New Member

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    740
    State:
    Arizona
    Ok, one last comment and I promess I let you be. I realize you have your right for your opinion as much as I do and neither will convince the other.

    You mention you are a production supervisor, is it the same to have the day's production done and 1% scrap rate as opposed to have it done but have 20% scrap rate?

    do you then consider to have a succesfull day at work or a not so good day? i mean you still got it done, in football terms you got the W but made a lot of mistakes.
    I saw my beloved Bears win over the Raiders, I hardly think they beat them or proved to be a good team. The W stands, but the team did not performed well. I am not happy about that win because I know that the moment the luck runs out they are still a subpar team. Think of the teams who performs well all around as a 6 sigma company, or a world class company. (If you have not notice I am a Quality team member, LOL)
     
  20. Ketch

    Ketch New Member

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    469
    State:
    Minnesota
    Actually, I used to be a production supervisor. I now do consulting.

    No, everyone done early with 20% scrap is unacceptable.

    All lean, 6 Sigma, and 5S are is a way to reduce waste. That waste being wasted labor, scrap, or wated movement. Take out anything that doesn't add value.

    But, aside from all that. If I got the customer the part, when he wanted the part I saved myself in the customers eyes. In this day and age, lead time and on time delivery are what counts in the foundry industry if you want to keep work in the states. Or facility ran 5.5% scrap - good considering other foundries. We also ran .01% customer returns - too low some companies would say, obviously we are scrapping too much. In addition 99% ontime delivery.

    Yes, if we ran with 1% scrap and 0% returns we would make more money. In a green sand foundry, that is all but impossible. Our scrap accounted for .8 of that 1% late shipments.

    In football, I'll take the cheesy win. It gives my team a chance to fight another day at the end of the season and in that time hopefully they have gotten it right. If not, they get their butts handed to them.


    On a side note, in all honesty, lean methodology is the biggest load of BS around. I've read tons of books on this subject, led Kaizens, done Value Stream Mapping, worked with JIT and kanban, did plant-wide 5S, and redid all our documents to TWI standards. Guess what. If people used common sense, non of this is needed. Why does someone need this "Toyota" mentality to tell them don't waste and you make more money. Don't take an extra step if you don't need to and you will be more productive. Put things away so they are in reach if you use them a lot and you will be more productive.

    The principles are all sound, but they are also all common sense.

    Why in the world do Value Stream/Lean Managers make $80k a year, now that's waste.