Patriots Cheating?? Under Investigation.

Discussion in 'NFL Talk' started by LilRyjoe04, Sep 11, 2007.

  1. LilRyjoe04

    LilRyjoe04 New Member

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    I want to get your guys' take on what happened on Sunday during the Jets/Pats game. Someone from the Patriots sideline was seen video taping Mangini when he was sending in play calls on defense. The tape was confiscated by NFL security and now the Patriots are being accused of cheating and if found guilty of this they might lose their first round pick for the 2008 season. The same guy that was video taping was caught two years ago doing the same thing in Green Bay.. Sounds fishy to me, it is kind of funny how the Patriots got beat before the playoffs last season and then turned around and whooped the Jets in the Wildcard game.:misdoubt: If they were cheating it serves them right to get in some kind of trouble. What do you guys think? (Especially Phil)LOL!
     
  2. Dano

    Dano New Member

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    Video taping and using it to cheat. That is the first I heard of pats using it to cheat. It doesn't sound like the Pats too me. I didn't even hear about it happening in Green B.
    Video taping is all over the field. I guess that is why some call plays with clip board hiding their lips.
    I dont think the Pats are cheating. It's a set up. They just be good dang good at what they do. That Brady cant be stopped this year. LOL.
    Ryan, that is a good try, spreading that rumor around trying to help out your Colts. They need all the help they can get when they face the Pats this year. LOL

    I missed most of that game. I heard there was a video of a record breaker run back for the Pats. I think. :wink:
     

  3. floundahman

    floundahman New Member

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    I'm a big Pat's fan and have been all my life. I heard about the accusation this afternoon. When Ty Law went to the Bills a couple of days before the season started, he brought the knowledge of the Pats' playbook and Buffalo whooped up on the Pats (I believe it was 31-0 ) in the season opener. Niether Law or the Bills were accused of cheating. That being said video taping signs to gain an advantage is cheating and if it proves to be true I'll be terribly disappointed. The Pats didn't need to cheat to beat the Jets, and they deserve to lose a draft pick if they cheated.:sad2:
     
  4. Phil Washburn

    Phil Washburn New Member

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    oh come on, ryan...belichick ain't that stupid:smile2:
    you think he would send some flunky WEARING PATS CREDENTIALS, NO LESS, to tape????:smile2:

    he may have had pats credentials on, but i am betting he gets a check from the colts:wink::smile2:
     
  5. Phil Washburn

    Phil Washburn New Member

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    another headline on it:


    ok, i never heard of this. let's say it's true, for the sake of argument. how can that possibly be an infraction????
    the coaches are making signals in public. any fan or network camera in the stadium can tape it, but it's illegal for another team to do it???

    this is beyond stupid:eek:oooh:
    if it's true, i cannot believe that it came from belichick. he doesn't need that to win. it had to come from the booth, imho. what do you guys think about this? should there even be a penalty at all?
     
  6. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

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    It is beyond stupid. These guys make great big bucks... surely they are smart enough to change their signals. If they are so stupid they don't change them, they should loose.
     
  7. PhillyCatcatcher4

    PhillyCatcatcher4 New Member

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    Pats Dynasty???:0a28: Make me wonder.:doubt:
     
  8. Duckpoor

    Duckpoor New Member

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    I know Baseball is a different game but the sign stealing is a part of what ya do.
    Lookng for an edge.. Ya learn early to watch and ya learn better to mask them. heck they call pitches ,hit and runs, steals, sucide squeezes.. darn near ever aspect of the game.

    Gee wizz .. Thats just un believeable..
    Come on boys just play the game. :roll_eyes:
     
  9. tomcat85

    tomcat85 New Member

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    What's going on w/ sports that is what I want to know. Michael Vick the dog killer, the dirty gambling referee in basketball, roids in baseball, now the patriots cheating? Imagine what's going on that people aren't coming forward about. I think the 50 billion dollars a year is going to all these peoples head. Way to ruin the sport. Just my opinion though.


    Tom
     
  10. PhillyCatcatcher4

    PhillyCatcatcher4 New Member

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    And they said he was a football mastermind. :angry:
     

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  11. fishnfwl

    fishnfwl New Member

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    LMAO! COMON fellas, Vic is old news, Bonds is old news, hockey is not going, Soccer well they had there 5 minutes, and the MEDIA just didn't have anything to run with for a week or two! It is never gonna stop in any sport no matter what........ Media News! The way I feel about it is that these fellas are PROFESSIONALS there for they should be able to ACT LIKE IT, once in a while anyway:tounge_out: Heck what do you expect an 18,19,20 year old kid to do when they have NO idea of the value of a dollar and then someone dumps Millions in their lap? As far as filming the plays, thats funny to me, they have been printing off plays on film for 20+ years.......... Just nothing more than the MEDIA Making some money....
     
  12. Phil Washburn

    Phil Washburn New Member

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    you pats haters go ahead and miss the point:angry:

    the point is, this was a public game and ever tom dick and harry in the stadium BUT the pats could video the coach making PUBLIC signals.
    that makes sense to you?

    i am saying this is manipulation by the nfl. it is an idiot rule that is used for manipulating teams.....

    you honestly believe, tomcat or philly, that the jets don't do it? or the colts? or the cowboys?????

    were you boys sheltered in a closet during your teen years?

    the rule is idiotic, and, by comparism i will try to illustrate my point.
    in 1990, roush racing was penalized by nascar and it cost a championship:

    the spacer in question had been welded to the manifold. it did not excede height measurement, nor did it improve performance.

    there are rules, it seems, in all sports that seem to be there for little more than manipulation for the sanctioning bodies pleasure. this is one of those.

    do you really think that the pats are the only ones that have done this? do you not believe, in the nfl record winning streak the pats had, that the teams they faced weren't busting their butts any way they could get away with to beat them???

    get a life..this is so far from reasonable it makes me nauseous:eek:oooh:
     
  13. jim

    jim New Member

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    Very reasonable arguments by all.Of course every NFL team tapes games of the other teams on their schedule so they can evaluate what that team does in certain situations.Green Bay complained about this when the same thing happened to them and I believe the Dolphins also.The Commish issued a ruling and told ALL the teams to stop strying to steal the signals.Evidently the PATS didnt get the memo.:smile2:Next they will be doing electronic intercepts of the helmet signals.NSA will be able to make part of their budget by selling these intercepts to the NFL:smile2::tounge_out::big_smile:NASCAR teams call it "Pushing the Envelope".The way I see it it is OK if you are a Patriot fan and an outrage if you arent!!!!!!!:wink:Yes Phil I do think they are that stupid to be wearing Pat credentials.Security at large venues today is such that you couldnt get down there without it.Wouldnt do any good to wear Colt credentials.If you want the ultimate in sports cheating just look at the Russians.After the 56 Olympics sex testing had to be introduced because the USSR female discus and shotputers outdid the AMerican men!!! Seriously the USSR was accused of using men in the female events ergo sex testing.The USSR "amateur" hockey team were all made Colnels in the Russian Army and all they did was play hockey sudsidized by the state.Hardly "unpaid amateurs" were they?Every sport has always had those that "Push the Envelope" trying to get an edge and its naive to think others dont do it.Remember where the Jets head coach came from!!!!:roll_eyes::big_smile:
     
  14. Ketch

    Ketch New Member

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    Well, personally, I think its a pretty big deal. If the competition committee decides that the patriots have done this, look out Pats. Roger Goodell has a pattern here of making examples of people. Its a good bet the Pats will lose more than one draft pick if found guilty.

    Jim, your thought that stealing signals from helmets next.

    Although never confirmed, back in 2000 that thought already came up when the NY Giants blanked the MN Vikings 41-0 in the Conference Finals. Personally, I think that did happen back in 2000 (you guys may think I am biased since I am from MN). I also think the Vikings would have lost that year even without it, perhaps with more dignity though.

    To me, the real question is where do you draw the line of rule infractions.
    In baseball you have roids, corked bats, files for baseballs
    In basketball you have gambling issues, behind the door deals (Joe Smith with the Minnesota Timberwolves)
    In racing you have engine mods
    So what constitutes an infraction in football? Radio intercept? Pictures of called plays? Off the field issues?
     
  15. jim

    jim New Member

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    Chad actually as part of this investigation the league is looking into the number of frequencies the PATS were using also,to see if they were intercepting the helmet signals.:crazy:
     
  16. vfourmax

    vfourmax New Member

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    I have not followed this real closely but in my opinion if the video taping was being done from the patriots side of the field then where is the harm or the foul?
    My opinion stems from the argument that the patriots own their sidelines and any info that can be obtained from within those boundaries make it a fair tool to be used within the game.
    Now if this was a case of the patriots sneaking someone onto the opposing sidelines to obtain information that could not be had from their sidelines then we have a case of cheating.
    Next we will have teams crying foul and not fair that a team uses a hurry up offense without a huddle to run a pass play because of the defense's personnel on the field was run oriented and not a pass oriented defense. Is this something that should also be considered cheating as it gives that team the advantage on that play?
    We have teams that will sign a player to a 40 MILLION DOLLAR contract but yet we are saying they are not intelligent enough to devise a signal system the other team cannot tell in advance what their play calling will be?
    I guess it would also be cheating to use your signals to intentionally try to sucker the other team to call the wrong counter to the play you were actually going to run or would that be considered a coach that was smart enough to use that as a part of his game plan to get the matchups on the field that were to his advantage?
    Cut the BS and play football! Actually the increase in the amount of season ending injuries should be of a much higher priority for the NFL to spend their time trying to solve than a coach that uses all available resources from their own sidelines to win a game. ( I am guessing the taping was done from their own sidelines here as I have not really followed this that closely as previously stated.)
    They say all is fair in love and war and football is war people! GO RECON!
     
  17. fish

    fish Active Member

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    Go Colts!!! I am a Colts fan and as much as I like you fellows, the Pats are the one main team I love to see get whooped.LOL:0a33:BUT:0a37:
     
  18. Dano

    Dano New Member

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    I still haven't heard the reported story. Did catch part of it at the end.
    I agree with Phil. If any kind of cheating was involved, it had to come from the booth. Every game is video and pic's are taken for players to review on and off the field. Pic's are printed out in seconds and reviewed as the game is being played. Video is reviewed by all off the field. Most QB's gives out singles on the line making changes, trying to confuse the defense etc. . Manning throws out singles on every play, changes up a lot. I'm sure every
    team reviews tapes on him and others trying to figure out what those singles mean.
    The booth, coaches, players all try to review and read body language.
    This whole thing is probably giving people what they wont, more dirty laundry, better ratings, money etc. people love to tar and feather. Video/Pic's have been reviewed since the beginning of all sports.

    bugging the other teams bench with a sound device ,or stealing the play book might be pushing it a little too far.

    If this turns out to truly be cheating by the staff. I dont think the players should take the heat. The person who did this, fire them. If its the owner's fault, fine him big time.
    I dont approve of cheating but it's hard to swallow video is cheating when there are a million cameras taping the games and part of training is reviewing tapes. I'll wait an see what the results are before I tar and feather.

    On a joking side. I'll treat this like a political view. The other party/team did it first. LMAO.
    "they will be doing electronic intercepts of the helmet signals"
    Did the Gov. ever pass the law making wire tapping legal. LMAO

    Cant we all just get along. LOL

    Is it too early to order this years SB Champion Hat from the Pats. LOL.
     
  19. Ketch

    Ketch New Member

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    I just heard that too Jim. I didn't think they were checking into their frequencies to check for stealing of the play calls.

    I think it is a big deal for once reason, let me clarify. Roger Goodell spoke very bluntly to all the teams earlier this season about this very issue. If it is as prevalent in the league as we all know it is, they need to either do something to stop it, or admit it is happening and allow everyone to do it (this only speaking about video and pictures of play calls and audibles).

    I would also like to add that more and more coaches are scripting their first however many plays and not needing calls for these plays (I have heard some script up to 40 per game) so I don't think that would help unless someone is behind the other team zooming in on there play list. I do realize that just because the coach has them scripted, doesn't mean the players all konw them so some are still called. I know this is why some Offensive coordinators prefer to call plays from the booth.

    Also, even if you know what play the other team is going to call, it doesn't mean you are going to stop it. I also think it is up to the coordinator to make sure that the playlist isn't exposed to anyone, that's their job.
     
  20. Pennsylvaniacatchaser

    Pennsylvaniacatchaser Well-Known Member

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    All the Pats fans are in denial! :smile2: :wink: :crazy: