Overkill?

Discussion in 'Trapping & Fur Taking' started by plumbertom1, Mar 2, 2007.

  1. plumbertom1

    plumbertom1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,902
    State:
    Eugene, Or.
    Can someone give me a perspective on this?
     

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  2. justwannano

    justwannano Active Member

    Messages:
    1,003
    State:
    SE Iowa
    NTA fur buyer. There ain't enough time in a day to catch that much.
    You've gotta figure prospecting time and travel time. You've gotta know the area too.
     

  3. CaTmAnDo55

    CaTmAnDo55 New Member

    Messages:
    154
    State:
    florence, SC
    a lot of them look like coyote and i hope they are cause thats one pest that should be wiped out
     
  4. plumbertom1

    plumbertom1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,902
    State:
    Eugene, Or.
    Look, I'm a hunter. I like to go out into the woods and mountains and track down game. I hunt for the table and am not into killing some animal just to display it's head or hide or whatever, but I don't have any objection to someone else doing so as long as they don't waste the meat from the trophy. And I understand the need to control predators numbers and one very good managment tool is hunting. But. And thats with the capital B, this looks to me to be nothing more than wholesale slaughter of wild life. What possible purpose could it serve other than to boost someones ego?
    This type of photo I'm sure will be used by the anti-hunter to prove that all hunters are blood thirsty egomaniacs with no regard for the ecosystem.
    If you know who does this or anything like this I strongly urge you to vnnot only condem the practice but to call your local wildlife regulatory agency and turn them in.
     
  5. 223reload

    223reload New Member

    Messages:
    10,798
    State:
    Oklahoma
    looks like a job well done to me
     
  6. plumbertom1

    plumbertom1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,902
    State:
    Eugene, Or.
    That's a terrable attitude.
    Coyotes have their place in the ecosystem just as much as deer, ducks, quail, or whatever game you prefer.
    If you think coyotes are a pest think on this; coyotes mainly prey on rats and mice with the occasional larger game. If coyotes were wiped out as you suggest these pests would lose an important control.
    Coyote numbers can and should be controled, but to suggeat that they should be wiped out is irresponsable.
     
  7. massa_jorge

    massa_jorge New Member

    Messages:
    2,137
    State:
    TEXAS
    that looks like a lot of yotes on the shed, but there are way more than that in the areas the guy hunted, i'm sure. you'll never see even half of a given predator population, most times way less than half.
    that guy has a good fur check coming i imagine.
    coyotes are our most adaptible predator, except for maybe feral and free range housecats. the money that has been put into eradicating them over time, and their huge and expanding population today are testaments they will always be here. why not pack up and shoot a few? even if you wanted to kill every last one, THERE'S NO FRIEKING WAY! :big_smile:
     
  8. plumbertom1

    plumbertom1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,902
    State:
    Eugene, Or.
    I'm not convinced that it would not be posable to wipe out a population of coyotes today. With the current firearms night vision technology, scent technology and electronic calling these dogs could be threatened in a short time by overhunting. A better understanding of their role in things would be a good place to start.
    Don't get me wrong I am not opposed to hunting varments of all types. and I am a vocal proponant of returning to hunting mountain lions in California. But I think that this type of photo shows an unrestricted hunt, possibly for profit, and it just seems wrong to me. Even if the population of coyotes is healthy enough to support this level of hunting this photo in the hands of anti-hunting groups could be desasterous for hunters.
     
  9. yotetrapper

    yotetrapper New Member

    Messages:
    69
    State:
    Illinois
    The first thing I was wondering is what that person in the pic could be turned in for? I dont know where it was taken, but where I lived in NY there was no limit on them. Here in Illinois, there is no limit and no season. You are encouraged to shoot as many as you can as often as you can. Coyotes do terrible damage to wildlife and livestock. This past season we removed 5 coyotes from a farm where they were killing sheep every night. They would kill one or two, eat one or two bites. They wouldnt return to that carcass the next night...they'd kill another sheep. They are very hard on wild turkey populations and my area in NY had virtually NO rabbits left when the coyotes moved in. They will also kill every red fox they catch. Any place with a high population of coyotes have none or next to no red and gray fox. Should we eradicate every one? Most farmers would tell you yes. I dont think so though, because I happen to like coyotes, despite all their bad habits. You needn't worry about them becoming endangered. Did you know that when hunting/trapping pressure is high a coyote will have 8-12 pups instead of the normal 4 or 5? Someone once said the last 2 things left on earth will be coyotes and cockroaches and I believe that is true.

    As for wasting the meat.... I'm a bit confused on what the difference is between killing a rabbit and eating the meat but wasting the fur, or killing a coyote and using the fur and wasting the meat?

    To the man in the picture, I say job well done.

    To you, plumbertom, I hope you dont think I'm being mean, I'm just stating my opinion for you and others here the same as you did. If you dont want to hunt large numbers, thats your choice and your welcome not to. Dont mean to come off as argumentive. I dont know squat about catfishing, but trapping and furbearers I do.

    Angela
     
  10. bootshowl

    bootshowl New Member

    Messages:
    2,288
    State:
    Indiana, J
    I wouldn't pose for a picture like that. I think the poor guy needs to get back on his meds, maybe go get his "ham glased". That's just sad...
    :sad2:
     
  11. plumbertom1

    plumbertom1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,902
    State:
    Eugene, Or.
    I certainly don't think that you are being mean or argumentative.
    As I stated when I posted the picture I wanted perspective.
    That is asking for the viewpoints of others, something I value especialy whenI'm trying to learn about things I am not familier with such as taking furs.
    I am a conservationist by mt nature like all hunters, when I see something that apears on the surface to be unwarrented I feel compelled to speek out.
    Here in Ca. we do experiance Urban coyotes from time to time taking pets and even occasionaly threatening small chieldren. And I believe I stated my views on hunting to control predation.
    That having been said I still think this kind of photo does not serve the best interest of hunters.
     
  12. yotetrapper

    yotetrapper New Member

    Messages:
    69
    State:
    Illinois
    Could an anti use that picture as ammunition? You bet. But they could use your statements just as well. This is an ongoing topic on a trapping website I used to frequent... about not posting this picture and not saying that because the anti's might use it. It's true, they might. But they can use ANY picture, especially any picture with blood, to there advantage. Heck, they can use a post about eating fish to their advantage. Where do you draw the line about what is acceptable to post, and what is not? The anti's seeing your post would thrill them, as it shows division amongst ourselves. The only wait to combat the anti's is to stay together. If someone does something you dont agree with, it's okay for you to think to yourself that you dont agree with it, but I honestly feel that showing division is every bit as detrimental to our (all sportmen) cause as the picture itself is. A picture of a fish with a hook in its mouth is fuel for the anti's. So is a dead buck. Or a garage full of coyote pelts. It's all the same. Until hunting, fishing, trapping, and meat in general is outlawed, the anti's will use EVERY bit of info they can.

    Me, It'd be a proud day for me to catch that much fur and pose with it for a picture. Fur catching aint near that easy. Just my opinion.
     
  13. primitivefrn

    primitivefrn Member

    Messages:
    783
    State:
    collins mo
    If I remember right that pic came out of Canada. Believe the guy was advertising for trapping instructions trips for people. anyway their is alot of hard work their, not only, in getting fur to that, stage, streched and dryed.
    Would make statment, most people would not have enough work ethics, (Lazy) To put hides on that barn. does seem like a lot of fur for one man.
    bet their helpers around some where.
    Jim
     
  14. Bigun

    Bigun New Member

    Messages:
    234
    State:
    Burnet, TX
    I would agree that a Coyote would rather play with a mouse than any thing else. When it is hungry it definately prefers something larger. For many years the town dogs packing up and going on a sheep/goat killing spree was the reason for the gun leaning against my back door. Now it is the Coyotes. They are about two orders of magnitude smarter than and more efficent killing machine than a dog. At a $100 a head how many would you like to donate to the preservation of the local pack. They have just about put me out of the sheep and goat business. In any population of animals ther are variations in intellegence and ther a fair number of Coyotes that are easily killed. Their average intelligence is so far above other animals that even in the old days when goverment trapers and ranchers had unlimited uses of Cyanide guns and poisons they only controlled their numbers they could not be wiped out.
     
  15. fishhook

    fishhook New Member

    Messages:
    658
    State:
    Willow Woo
    There is Red Fox, Coyote, Wolf and Lynks or Bob cat in that picture which took a lot of work and I don't think one man did all that in one season speaking from experience. The only ammunition that is given to the anti's here are the derogatory remarks made by the one's on here that don't have a clue about what they're looking at and as far as the coyote dining on rats and mice needs to look up just what the diet of a coyote really is and how much harm the coyote does the the small game that some on here likes to hunt. The coyote population is running rampit in this country and migrating eastward at an alarming rate. I think that if sportsmen can't say something fair about a trapper, hunter of fisherman then you're just siding with anti's which in fact are only about 2% of the population, they're just really vocal where sportsman are not.
     
  16. plumbertom1

    plumbertom1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,902
    State:
    Eugene, Or.
    It's obvious to me that those of you that are trappers are so overly sensitive about what you do that you cannot tolerate anyone questioning your practices even if its a request for information.
    Either I did not make myself clear or you are just looking for any chance to strike back at what you see as unfair criticism.
    To try and compare a single fish with a hook in it to that photo is not being realistic.
    Most people that do not have a clear understanding about trapping (like myself) would have a similar reaction to that photo, where seeing a bleeding fish would not cause it.
    I still think the only purpose of that photo is egotism and self aggrandizement.
    I you don't see that then in my opinion you are just wrong.
     
  17. fishhook

    fishhook New Member

    Messages:
    658
    State:
    Willow Woo
    In other words this picture is offensive to you but pictures of tuna or sharks hanging in a row on block and tackle with blood running down their bodies or large numbers of fish of any kind laid out in rows for the purpose of picture taking, or a row of deer hung at a hunting camp is not. Then you need to take a long look at who you're calling wrong here. All this posting you call asking for information and then attacting the very people that is passing along information to you is the best ammunition you can give to the very anti's you claim everyone else is supplying. I've been a public relations officer for long time now in trapping and hunting organizations writing to newspapers and appearing on tv once to dispute things anti's put out there to brainwash the general public and I find that most people that write like you do, think more with their heart and feelings then with a factual mind.
     
  18. yotepeeler

    yotepeeler New Member

    Messages:
    71
    State:
    Illinois
    Trapping is under attack now in several states . Yours has already outlawed trapping by any means other then box traps . If you check you will find your state now employs government trappers to control the predetors that used to be controled by private trappers . Read this as higher taxes .:roll_eyes:

    You now advocate cougar hunts , that makes me think it is because of the cougar attacks on humans has come home . In the east they are having coyote attacks on people too not to mention the pets taken daily .Think we should of listened before the wolf was reintroduced into Yellostone . BTW the ones brought in were never native . Now the elk are almost totally gone from there .

    To deem the photo as ego driven that can also be said of all the people with fish held up in their pictures . The real enemy is H$U$ . Notice the $ instead of the S . That is the whole game for them . ALL sportsmen that use wildlife are under attack . If we continue in our division we will all loose .

    The entertainment industry has a lot of this to their credit . When you turn on the animal planet or the Croc hunter you are being conditioned toward their side .

    Yep I am sensitive when my way of life is threatened by folks uneducated in real life . We are all involved in the food chain . We just happened to be at the top today . Myself I prefer to stay at the top .

    Yotepeeler
     
  19. 223reload

    223reload New Member

    Messages:
    10,798
    State:
    Oklahoma
    First a hearty Welcome to the BOC Pete glad to have you. and isint it strange that California most allways leads in the change for the rest of the nation first polution .....whats next? I'm from the old school of thought ,if it works for you then you do it .And if it works for me leave me alone and let me do it my way. But dont change things to force your way on me!!by making it a law.
     
  20. beetle

    beetle New Member

    Messages:
    1,003
    State:
    Ohio
    If I could still stand after putting up that much fur you can bet your a%$ I would be proud to have my picture taken with them. A deer hunter holds up their rack and get a picture taken with their trophy Buck don't they? They may process the meat but rarely the hide. What's the difference when a trapper takes the fur but not the meat. We sold a some of our coon and muskrat meat to some people who wanted it, but finding people who want to eat what we trap is not easy these days. As far as the photo goes my guess is he bought the animals from a lot of trappers and maybe put up the fur but I do not think he hunted or trapped that many myself. Here in Ohio there is no closed season for Coyote or limits on them. If the ODNR thought they were loosing to many numbers they would limit what you could trap or hunt just as they do the deer and other game. I do not bird hunt or water fowl hunt. I do not rabbit hunt or fly fish, but I will do everything I can to make sure those who do have that right. We as sportsman and women must stick together to insure that the kids of tomorrow also have that right. I stand by my catch for photos every time...they do not come that easy and trapping is hard work.:smile2: