One Body

Discussion in 'Wolfman's Nascar Pit Stop' started by Kittyhunter, Oct 6, 2005.

  1. Kittyhunter

    Kittyhunter New Member

    Messages:
    291
    State:
    Princeton, NC
    I have thought for a long time now that Nascar should go to a generic body for everyone. Make a template body shaped the same for everyone, let them paint Ford, Chevy, or whatever make they want on it. That would eliminate all this "they have a better downforce than we do" crap. Make them all the same, let the teams put their chassis and drivetrain under them. Let the driver and team speak for themselves.
     
  2. s_self88

    s_self88 New Member

    Messages:
    198
    State:
    Shawnee, Kansas
    I thought that NASCAR had the same template for all cars already. The only thing that was different were the nose, the block, and maybe transmission. I think all the cars run a 9" ford rearend.
     

  3. JERMSQUIRM

    JERMSQUIRM New Member

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    13,145
    State:
    il-waynesv
    well that takes out what nascar stands for. think about it. the national association of stock car auto racing. they race stock cars. now dont get me wrong. they are anything but stock. but why do ya think they put the headlight and tailight decals on em. it is to make em look like stock factory cars produced by the manufactuer.

    if they all had the same body it wouldnt be stock cars. they have to have some similarities in the body style of the factory car produced by the manufacturer. they would loose sponsership if they just got rid of the style of the car.

    i asked a fella once "why don't nascar go to a 1 center lug like indy." got same response. its because they want to stay stock. the 5 lugs keep the pitting like a stock manufacturerers car. 1 lug they slip further from what they are. stock car racing. thats why they have templates for each manufacturer. to keep em as close to stock as they can get. the grill openings for pontiac before they got out had two openings on top and one under side in the valance. just like the grand prix. the fords and chevys had the same as the stock shape of one opening.

    there so close now especially on the restrictor plate tracks it really doesnt matter but on the weekly tracks the manufacturers compete with body styles on downforce and drag. thats why you will not see the taurus on tracks much longer. ford has a more aerodynamic replacement for the coming year.

    its all about dominance. make em exact and you loose that difference in the manufacturer. the ford taurus was the first 4 door car to hit the track. a family car. and we just seen it win at talledega. THE WORLDS FASTEST SUPERSPEEDWAY. for loved that win. first since fall of 98 when jarrett won the no bull million. and was sundays winner. last ford in victory lane since. its a competition between the manuf, thats keeping it like it is. it coudn't keep the name nascar racing if it were exact with just a decal. thats why the race carbs instead of fuel injection. they spend countless hrs testing in the wind tunnel to check the arodynamics on each madel to be able to tell each one a certain spoiler hight they must be within. that keeps one from being dominate overall.

    however each year the bodystyles change one seems like its more aerodynamic. when the taurus first hit tracks the chevys and pontiacs complained and the fords were running at the front more. so nascar took a look and added i think was an " to the read spoiler. to level the playing field.

    if they were all alike they would have to call it. nascar. the national association of same car auto racing. WAIT. THATS THE SAME INITIALS. HELL. maybe they should.
     
  4. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    I'm with Jeremy.
    Nascar should never lose its roots and one the biggest rivalries over the years was the manufacturers.
    Bottom line is , this is racing, if you are getting beat on the track week after week go build another car.
    If you continue to get your butt handed to you , question yourself if you really like the brand of factory support you get or either become proactive in new car design.

    Dale Earnhardt is the main reason the Monte Carlo looks the way it does today.


    There is alot more to it then just making everyone run the same bodies. You got the manufacturers that are pumping hundreds of millions in this sport to win races on Sunday and sell cars on Monday.
     
  5. Kittyhunter

    Kittyhunter New Member

    Messages:
    291
    State:
    Princeton, NC
    Stock cars my butt. There is not one thing on any Nascar race car that even resembles anything stock. All the fenders, quarters are shaped different. Wider here, lower there, let's drop the valance. When was the last time you saw a 2 door Taurus on the road? How about a Monte Carlo with a 6 inch spoiler? You haven't. Even with the generic body, the teams could still put the decals for the headlights and stuff to make them resemble the factory cars. Doing this would put all the teams on a level playing field as far as downforce, aerodynamics, etc. They can gain advantages with their chassis design, setup, engine, etc.
     
  6. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

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    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    Obviously we all know these cars arent stock but there are fords, chevies, and dodges on the track and I can tell the difference by looking at them.
    There are 3 templates on these cars that are a duplicate of the stock part.
    The deck lid , the roof, and the hood.
    In fact some teams run a factory deck lid .

    Take the manufacturer out of the design of these cars and you might as well pull the plug.
     
  7. ryang

    ryang Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,336
    State:
    Blacklick, Ohio
    Name:
    Gary
    Dont they all race the same car for IROC?
     
  8. s_self88

    s_self88 New Member

    Messages:
    198
    State:
    Shawnee, Kansas
    Since Nascar is at Kansas Speedway this week, Joe Nemechek's Chevy, and Ricky Rudd's Ford came to my engineering class. They had some technicians from each racing team there. They showed us that they use the same template for all 3 types of cars. The template on the ford fit the chevy perfectly. And we had to find the differences between the cars, and the only difference between the cars was the nose and the block. They also came to my automotive technology class. We learned about how they can meter the fuel using a carberator, and why they can't use a fuel injection system. We also learned about the dry sump engines. And how they all run ford rearends because they are easiest to install because they are the only ones not built into the housing. It was a good opportunity to get to talk to the techs.
     
  9. Phil Washburn

    Phil Washburn New Member

    Messages:
    7,680
    State:
    Shawnee OK
    sounds like fun, sean - hope you enjoyed it

    i was going to say, they are already pretty much the same body....certainly almost identical aerodynamically, except for the grill.

    the 9in ford allows the gear setup to be done at the shop. they just bring a few to the track and the assembly can be changed in minutes.

    i don't know when they will go to fuel injection, but it will be awhile. it is almost impossible to police, and nascar would probably have to furnish all the electronics in a tamper-resistant package, which they simply cannot do at this time.
     
  10. Kittyhunter

    Kittyhunter New Member

    Messages:
    291
    State:
    Princeton, NC
    What I am saying is different teams bitch and moan about so and so has a better aero package than we do, they get to run a spoiler an inch higher than we do, blah blah blah. If they put the same grille and spoiler on them all, everybody would be even and would have nothing to complain about.
     
  11. Phil Washburn

    Phil Washburn New Member

    Messages:
    7,680
    State:
    Shawnee OK
    lol, mark. i hear ya, buddy. i used to race: them guys are gonna find something to bitch about anyway :D
     
  12. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    Kitty, thats not what it was founded on.
    Nowhere in the Nascar rules or the history does it say the cars have to be the same or equal.
    It's more then just a battle on the track between drivers. It's a manufacturers battle as well.

    You run what you can bring until you can bring something better.
     
  13. Kittyhunter

    Kittyhunter New Member

    Messages:
    291
    State:
    Princeton, NC
    You're right Mark, it WAS founded on run what you brung. It couldn't be further from that now. There are so many rules now it's stupid. But, like it or not, thats what the sport has evolved into. Nascar keeps letting one manufacturer change this, another manufacturer change that to stay more competitive and the other always complains. The point I was trying to make is if they let them all use the same body, there would be nothing to complain about. The teams could use their own chassis, drivetrain, setup, etc. But, noone would have an advantage as far as aero is concerned.
     
  14. ohiocattracker

    ohiocattracker New Member

    Messages:
    215
    State:
    Cincinnati Ohio
    Well Nascar has said Gary Nelson for years they plan on have there own stock car pretty much also same engines.They do now all but nose peace and engines and the fact that Ford,Chevy,Dodge pump alot of money in there without them,there wouldnt be any Nascar nor Nascar fans.I already disagree with Toyota joining the truck series it's a american sport should stay that way.Talking about those Ford 9in rearends back in 90s i use to go from Ohio to junkyards from about three states each direction buying those to sell to dirt racers around here lol.Early 90s went to Florida one time picked up 15 or 16 of them and had them sold before i got home lol i bet you couldnt find one in a junkyard anymore lol.
     
  15. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    Well Toyota starts Cup racing in 07.
     
  16. JERMSQUIRM

    JERMSQUIRM New Member

    Messages:
    13,145
    State:
    il-waynesv
    ya know there is an option to not liking the bi%^$ing and moaning. its called not watching. ;)
     
  17. JERMSQUIRM

    JERMSQUIRM New Member

    Messages:
    13,145
    State:
    il-waynesv
    read the post better. thats why NASCAR USES 5 LUGS AND NOT 1 LIKE INDY. the factory cars have 5 and i too can tell the bodys apart. even when thier at daytona with primer and no decals.

    no thier NOT STOCK BUT ITS 2005 NOT 1978. THE SPORT IS EVOLVING WITH THE TIMES.

    THEY CANT GO OUT THIER AT 200 MPH WITHOUT MODIFICATIONS. STOCK CARS ARENT SAFE ENOUGH FOR THOSE SPEEDS. MOST COMMON FOLKS THAT HIT A CONCRETE WALL AT 160 IN A STOCK MONTE DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    THERE AS CLOSE TO STOCK AS THE TIMES WILL ALLOW.
     
  18. ohiocattracker

    ohiocattracker New Member

    Messages:
    215
    State:
    Cincinnati Ohio
    Well they have already i was told that Nascar Scene mag lost thousands in people droping scripts in last couple years i droped mine.My parents and about 4 other familys and me and my wife also have had Daytona speedweeks tickets for close to 20 years and three other tracks and my parents and others didnt renew after this year i did got mine already for 2006 Daytona and all speedweeks.Some said due to tickets being to high others didnt like the hour long hoop la before the race said it was like super bowl half time show lol also that the crowd is younger and just there for the partying not for the racing.And most all the people i have asked about it have stoped watching every sunday in past few years even before the new points structure but some say thats why they quit watching.This maybe my last renew of tickets after next years races just spend it more at the dirt tracks and fishing.I have quit watching already ever week i just watch the races i want to see went fishing more on sundays this year lol i did last week for Talladega but i did listen on radio to finsh.I think Nascar is slowly running there fans that made them away i just hope that the new ones are as loyal as the ones there loseing.Still some real racing out there in some good series that have nothing to do with Nascar.
     
  19. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    I feel as you do. I went years without missing a race. Last year and more so this year, I listen to them on the radio or just read it in the paper on Monday.
    Nascar has targeted and continues to target the younger fan base which is where the WWF likeness comes into play with it.
    Nascar wants to move away from the older fan base (the ones that have seen real racing) in favor of new more demanding and upbeat marketing strategies.
    What we are watching often times on Sunday is nothing more then a loosely choreographed parade of cars with the famous line, " I couldnt pass him, I got a bad areopush off of turn 4."
    But still there is even some tracks Nascar can't tame or turn into a parade like Bristol, Darlington, Daytona, 'Dega, Richmond, and Martinsville. Those are the races worth watching to me and I'll continue to create my own racing enviroments with NASCAR Sim Racing.

    When I was a kid I'll never forget all the races I attended at the Rock and Dover. the mid to late 70's and early 80's era I was fortunate that my parents had VIP seating at these tracks and met a man by the name of Charles Hisey from Va. He and his wife travelled by motorhome to every race on the circuit every year and he was also president of the official Richard Petty fan club. After the Rock races we would leave the lounge and go sit in his motorhome outside of the track while traffic died down and often stayed until 8 or 9 pm. On average I would say 10-15 drivers would knock on the door to say hello to Charles. As a kid I was in awe to be around such names and get the pats on my blonde head and the handshakes. Those are the days and names cup racing is truelly at a loss without with todays mega million dollar sponsorships and hectic scheduling.

    I'm just glad that I was there to see some some of history's best racing with man and machine, factory against factory rivalries, and a fan base that didnt lack for excitement on the track without all the drama off the track these days.
     
  20. quadman

    quadman New Member

    Messages:
    98
    State:
    Danville, Virginia
    Well if anybody watched the news show the other night it was laid out exactly what they want. They want all of the SOUTHERN roots gone! They even attacked the people flying the rebel flags and such. They may gain a few fans here and there but like was said on the show they are fair weather fans and won't be there in the long haul. I still don't like the fact that Toyota is coming in, it has nothing to do with not liking the company, I just think it does away with the heritage. I know alot of the racers claim to support it but imagine what would happen to those who publicly said they didn't. One thing lately that I do agree with is doing away with the 5 car teams. Theres just too much of an advantage for them over the smaller teams and this year it really shows. I guess we can give the chase the credit for exposing that advantage