ok whould you do it or not

Discussion in 'Guns - Blackpowder' started by reloader1220_270, Dec 14, 2008.

  1. reloader1220_270

    reloader1220_270 New Member

    Messages:
    40
    State:
    north carolina
    whould you buy .223 fmj bullets and modify them to be leagle for hunting to save caust. Me personaly i have done it before and still do it but i just want to know what yaw think :tounge_out:







    and remember if a frog had wings he wouldnt bump his butt on the ground
     
  2. peewee williams

    peewee williams New Member

    Messages:
    3,111
    State:
    Pembroke,Georgia
    With no more information than you gave.I think only you could possibly know the right answer.

    If it is legal,you can hit your target where you should and it kills your game clean,I see nothing wrong with it.I had to be very careful as it is very hard to retain accuracy.I was satisfied with some for close range.

    It is legal to hunt with a bullet that groups within 100 yards at 100 yards but that don't make it right.

    In Georgia,you must use a expanding bullet.It is is very hard to modify ball ammo to do this.When you do,accuracy goes everywhere.You best stay a mile or more from state lines unless you are licensed to hunt both!In some states you just had to give it a hollow point.I found this to be more accurate,but not very accurate and it does not expand very well.

    The steel jacketed lead core bullets were a mess to work with,Tools that cut steel often plug with lead and the gilding.Tools that work with lead and the gilding do not handle the steel very well.The steel in different batches have different hardness from HARD to SOFT.

    I spent a lot of time in the past attempting to do this.I ended up with a lot of bullets from terrible to usable at best.It was not worth it to me.Work overtime or a second job if you can to buy the correct bullets.You will come out better with your time and money.If you can not afford the right ones,do the best that you can and shoot close enough that your game will have powder burns!
     

  3. 223reload

    223reload New Member

    Messages:
    10,798
    State:
    Oklahoma
    Robert,Glad to see you posting. I would not ,But not from a legality standpoint. It would be legal to modify them to expanding. But the time and hassle wouldny offset the cost to me,I would rather spend a bit more and get a proven varmint bullet myself.



    PS We'd be glad to have you chime in on our reloading knoweledge that Ken fired up.
     
  4. peewee williams

    peewee williams New Member

    Messages:
    3,111
    State:
    Pembroke,Georgia
    In Georgia we can hunt "Non Protected Species" with any firearm or bullet.I was once told that "you could use a club or spear or just jump up and down on them" by a Game Worden.I can legally hunt small game and feral hogs with a BB gun.The same for a Coyote.At least they leave you room to use your own common sense and morals.

    I look at it this way.Any one who will hunt a wild Hog or Coyote with a BB gun,ain't going to pay attention to any law.I guess our law makers think the same.It might just be a good thing.I imagine that fewer of the people who Hog hunt with with BB guns will be around to breed.Perhaps we should put Bears on there!
     
  5. brinley45cal

    brinley45cal Active Member

    Messages:
    2,606
    State:
    kentucky
    well another problem you might run into is the bullet not expanding like it suppose to,heck some bullets that are made to expand out of the box sometimes fail to do so.JMO i dont think i would do it.
     
  6. reloader1220_270

    reloader1220_270 New Member

    Messages:
    40
    State:
    north carolina
    in my state(north carolina) we cannot hunt with fmj bullets and the way all the others snap up you cant hardly find any that dont have a fmj. also with my job we have a crapload of time on our hands (in the winter that is)and can do pretty much what we want (thats why my boss tells me to try not to blow the place up :smile2:) but just for other people info. i use only hand tools not a grinder to knock the ends off the metal doesnt heat up as fast,and is alot safer then use an mery bord for fine tuning. the way the bullet flies has not messed up a bit.
    but if anybody knows a good powder,primer and bullet to reload for it i am all ears,cause i would rather reload them than to modify them.


    and remember if a frog had wings he wouldnt bump its butt on the ground
     
  7. Kip Brandel

    Kip Brandel New Member

    Messages:
    502
    State:
    Glasgow, Kentuc
    There were several tools made just for turning ball ammo into a hollow point round. I remember reading a whole article about them in one of the reloading mags a few years ago. One of the easiest ones was a caliber specific guide that you used a step drill bit with it and it removed the tip and cut the hole.
    Nosiler also has published several articles about damaging tips on its bullets even blunting them over to one side with no affect on accuracy. The amount of weight moved to one side or the other is not even equal to variation of case wall run out that is acceptable. With the tip being at the dead center a weight difference one way or the other will not make as much difference as a weight imbalance at the outside of the bullets diameter.
     
  8. 223reload

    223reload New Member

    Messages:
    10,798
    State:
    Oklahoma
    Robert,Its time to start reloading that .223 instead of buyin factory ammo.:wink:If you have brass,They can be reloaded for about .50 a round.
     
  9. gonefishing

    gonefishing New Member

    Messages:
    157
    State:
    Near Monroe LA
    I have been reloading for 30 years. I dont hunt much now but still will break out my reloading Press if I get low on shells. If you dont have the gear you can buy some good shooting bullets out there now ( alot better then when I got started.

    Sam W
     
  10. Snagged2

    Snagged2 New Member

    Messages:
    6,252
    State:
    Verde Valley AZ
    Well, interesting ,,,,

    If I HAD to do it,, I'd make a little "holding" jig and just touch them on my belt grinder.. for a bit of consistency...Makin sure they were good and square and uniform.

    Blunt it up a bit I guess... If they would group, and they should,, at medium ranges.. I'd have no problem sending them through the hydraulics of a critter...

    I'm suspect, from observing bullet wounds of some of the premium bullets, that are made to hold together in Large, Big game, may not expand fully, as they go completely through a deer sized animal... ,,but, they're bleeding out both sides, and not usually for very long,,,!!!
    A lot of Game has been thoroughly killed with "Solids"..and, not just head shots...

    So, If you Have to modify the projectiles,, They'll probably work within certain parameters. Main thing that concerns me, is that the bullet wouldn't just vaporize superficially,, as good penetration is paramount, in quick kills. I don't just want to, "leave a mark"...
     
  11. Snagged2

    Snagged2 New Member

    Messages:
    6,252
    State:
    Verde Valley AZ
    Also, You can buy a Collet style bullet puller, and exchange the FMJ's for a hunting style round, of the same weight..
     
  12. katfish ken

    katfish ken New Member

    Messages:
    4,092
    State:
    Paintsvill
    This to me would be the best alternative.. Another option would be to use the fmj rounds for practice and save the brass for reloading.
     
  13. Kip Brandel

    Kip Brandel New Member

    Messages:
    502
    State:
    Glasgow, Kentuc
    I would NOT recommend this!!!! Depending on the bullets shape and jacket makeup you can severely spike pressures and damage your gun or worse.
    For an example Alliant recommends 53 grains of Reloader 17 with a Speer 100 grain BTSP BUT if you load a 100 grain Speer soft point they do not even recommend Reloader 17.
    Another few examples are 25/06 = 100 grain Speer loads show a maximum for IMR 4350 as 53 grains, The same powder with a Noser 100 grain has a max load of 51 grains. 2 grains of powder difference can destroy a firearm.
    223 Remington = and 50 grain bullets Nosler shows a maximum load of 26.5 grains of Winchester 748 but a 50 grain Speer bullet shows 28.5 grains of Winchester 748.
    2 grains of powder in a 06 sized case is big enough, 2 grains in a 223 case is a HUGE difference!!!!!!!
    FMJ rounds are generally thinner cased than other rounds as they are sealed and only ment for penetration of people. Hinting rounds, even varmint are thicker and will cause higher pressures.
     
  14. Snagged2

    Snagged2 New Member

    Messages:
    6,252
    State:
    Verde Valley AZ
    I certainly don't recommend it. I've done it though... on .308 and 06. And, It's been done a lot, w/ military ammo.... through the years, as surplus ammo was aplenty...by some....:crazy:

    Military brass is Thicker and heavier. than commercial, it needs to be mentioned here, that is why the reloading manuals usually have a caution regarding the use of US military cases, at full power loads. At least the older ones did.

    Also, the newer manuals have much lower maximum loads than some of the older ones I have..

    I'd only exchange one bullet for another of the same weight,,,,55-55,, 150-150 etc..
     
  15. Snagged2

    Snagged2 New Member

    Messages:
    6,252
    State:
    Verde Valley AZ
    Also, after thinking about this subject, It's not for the inexperienced, as it is chancy..:roll_eyes:

    .223 Richard made a real good point about it being relative inexpensive to load GOOD loads. Then you have a known commodity.. :big_smile:

    Kip pointed out some dangers associated with unknowns...:crazy:

    so, If you're going to be in the business, might as well do it safely...:wink:
     
  16. kat in the hat

    kat in the hat New Member

    Messages:
    4,875
    State:
    Missouri
    I'm no expert, but I wouldn't do it. Maybe because I'm not an expert. Might I suggest a different round? :big_smile: So, as a non-expert, is it really that difficult to obtain soft tiped ammo? I know folks that deer hunt with a .223. I know they have soft tips. When I had a .223, I didn't hunt with it, but I don't remember having a hard time finding hunting ammo. I know it's more expensive, but worth it IMO. Especially if you can reload.
     
  17. katfish ken

    katfish ken New Member

    Messages:
    4,092
    State:
    Paintsvill
    Greg you have brought out many good points. The military cases are different, and it takes time to work up a good load with them. It is much simpler to use factory cases to reload.
     
  18. xringer3

    xringer3 New Member

    Messages:
    950
    State:
    Oklahoma
    I wouldn't shoot a deer with a 223 to begin with. I shot a buck this year during rifle season that had been shot twice the day before with a 223. I found fragments of the bullets in the skin enough to piece them back together to see what caliber they were. They were good hits, just exploded and didn't do enough damage to the vitals. He wasn't even limping when he came in, I didn't see he had been shot till I started to take the hide off of him, but it was obvious the wounds were fresh.
     
  19. Jerry60k

    Jerry60k Member

    Messages:
    882
    State:
    Chelyan, West V
    A person needs to remember that the .223 was developed to cripple humans instead of killing them out right.
    The .30 cal lineup was designed for 1 thing only to absolutely kill without a doubt a warm-blooded mammal around 150 to 250 lbs with the first hit.
    Now I love to varmit hunt and plink around with a .223 but when its time to put big game down I always reach for my 30-06.

    I sure hope my tax return is good so I can maybe post about a .223 Bushmaster next year ;)
     
  20. reloader1220_270

    reloader1220_270 New Member

    Messages:
    40
    State:
    north carolina
    Well i have to say this all of the input is good to hear and i do intend to start reloading the .223 (5.56) after the first of the year. I also have to say this, in the past 3 years i have killed 9 deer with my .223,(and i am sure that some of you will agree) that its all about shot placement.When i looked inside of those deer the lungs were almost totaly gone,and some of them were shot at 350+ yards.Others i spine shot so they wouldnt go no where.In my personal standings the .223 has done more damage on the inside of a deer than my .270 has ever done.I give you it doesnt have as much knock down or leave as big of a blood trail but it does get the job done.And also all those deer was shot one time never have i needed a second.