I was catching perch with a pole in a local creek and caught this shiner. I didnt measure it, but put a 12 inch ruler by it. Looks like about 8 inches. Caught a mess of good size perch too. Probably 12-15 that are 4-6 inches. Going to go use em tonight, around a rocky area that I figure is the best chance of holding flatheads. http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=minnow6tc.jpg I think there called golden shiners, Im not sure what type of shiner they are specifically but there the same kind for sell around our part for bass/crappie fishing, they're just grown up.