Noodle Ethics

Discussion in 'MISSOURI RIVERS TALK' started by cpalombo, Jul 18, 2006.

  1. cpalombo

    cpalombo New Member

    Messages:
    318
    State:
    Nashville TN
    So I was out fishing the other day and saw at least 4 noodle sets go by me over the course of the day. No one was watching them. It was my 2nd time fishing for catfish, so these were new to me. I only learned of them a week ago on the BOC. Out of curiosity, I drove over to one and picked it up out of the water. Of course I promptly put it back after seeing how it was set up (milk crate, 1 foot of twine, 1 old rusty hook). It was old, baitless, filthy and probably floating around for a month in the river. I really hated putting it back in the water, but felt it was not worth someone assuming I was stealing.

    Reflecting over that event afterwards, I figure that I saw 4 unmanned free floating bottles/jugs/noodles with a 4/0 hook on them littering the river (or worse yet killing fish because they got away from the fisherman). I was thinking that these are basically little fish killing bobbers floating around spreading destruction. Am I wrong? I am not advocating for the elimination of noodle fishing, but I did feel very poor about not cleaning up that bottle.

    What is the ethic of cleaning up other people's noodles? If they are floating by themselves, is it OK to take them out of the water and discard them? Some of these must be left by a fisherman, and are therefore litter. The one I saw did not have a name or phone number on them (a fact that I feel is disappointing and is poor sportsmanship). I am not interested in taking them and using them, or stealing someone's fish. I just want to clean up litter with a dangerous fish killing hook on it. I will be using noodles some day, it looks like fun. However, if I did loose one, I would want some fellow fisherman to pick it up and take it out of the water for the sake of the fish, river, and community.

    Any thoughts here? What are the ethics in touching another fishermanÂ’s noodle sets? When is it appropriate to take them out as litter? When do you respect another fishermanÂ’s set, and when does that set become dangerous fish killing litter?

    CP

     
  2. PeZ

    PeZ New Member

    Messages:
    757
    State:
    Oklahoma
    i see them all the time with slime all over them been in the water for months but i have never removed them for fear it would get me in trouble or in a fight with a crazy old man lol but next time im on the water i will ask the marine patrol if i can throw them away. in oklahoma you dont have to watch ur jugs and they can be out for 24 hrs so not seeing someone watching themm doesnt mean there not being checked you no what i mean good question
     

  3. dcaruthers

    dcaruthers New Member

    Messages:
    756
    State:
    Alabama
    Chris,

    From a fellow who noodles frequently: Take them out of the water please. I try and stay close by mine, but some of them still get lost even after looking for them for what seems like forever. I am a firm believer of not leaving anything behind, so if you find one of my noodles floating along and you don't see me then check them. If they appear neglected then they probably are. I don't agree with people dropping off noodles in the water and then coming and looking for them the next day. There are too many variables in causing them to get lost to count.
     
  4. PeZ

    PeZ New Member

    Messages:
    757
    State:
    Oklahoma
    i anchor my noodles there in the same place i left them the night before 99% of the time
     
  5. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    The ethics are pretty darn clear. It is illegal for you to run (or even check) another person's lines. Big, BIG, NO - NO. Your course of action is to notify your state Deptartment of Wildlife of date/time/location. They will retrieve the lines. You could be shot for running a rednecks lines or ticketed by a game ranger. Your choice - choose wisely.
     
  6. MississippiJugHead

    MississippiJugHead New Member

    Messages:
    147
    State:
    Missouri
    Jugline/trotlines in Missouri must be labeled with name and address so the noodles you describe are illegal. They also must be checked at least every 24 hours. I would still be slow about messing with them for the reasons stated above.
     
  7. cook

    cook New Member

    Messages:
    1,494
    State:
    Plattsburg,Mo.(near K.C.)
    In Mo.,if they are not labeled,then it is litter.I pick up litter all the time.
     
  8. cook

    cook New Member

    Messages:
    1,494
    State:
    Plattsburg,Mo.(near K.C.)
    Jughead,ya beat me to it by 2 minutes,never should have skipped typing in H.S.
    :angry:
     
  9. tkyhnt

    tkyhnt New Member

    Messages:
    125
    State:
    Missouri
    I really enjoy going out with my kids and "noodling". I always count my jug/noodles before I put them out and do my best to make sure I take the same amount home. I have had some come up missing both anchored and free floating. In my opinion if you see a discarded jug/noodle then it is litter, and should just as anything else floating in the lake be picked up. Yes this is against the law in MO to run another persons lines and picking up jugs would fall into that category, however if there are no names on them and they have slime on them and obviously not being used then I think its our duty to clean up others messes. JMO.
     
  10. Gabowman

    Gabowman Member

    Messages:
    311
    State:
    Georgia
    You can pretty much tell if a noodle got left behind because it'll be by itself without any more around. If I saw three or four together it's likely they have drifted a little far from the rest but they are all still out and the noodle fisherman has yet to retrieve them. Many reasons could prevent the fisherman from picking his noodles up at daylight such as truck trouble, boat trouble, alarm didnt go off, etc., etc. I wouldnt even check a bait on one if I thought the fisherman's jugs are still out. You can also tell one that has been left a long time. They'll generally have slime on 'em if left for a long time but at least a nice sized water line around them. Those have been lost and written off by the jug fisherman. Pick 'em up and discard of them. If local you may even want to give the guy a call if you have a name to let him know where his jugs drifted to. Rusty hooks? Alot of people pick their noodles up (wet) and wind the line around them and stick the hook into the noodle. After being bagged up for a week or so they're rusty. This'll rust a hook in a hurry and most people I know dont replace hooks all that regular. They'll more than likely hit the tip of the hook lightly to keep it sharp enough to catch a fish. One other thing...dont be nosey and just "check" a jug or noodle to see how it's set up when a guy has his hooks out. If seen, the lightest you'll get away with is a severe tongue lashing. It could get a WHOLE lot worse than that too. :wink:
     
  11. cschottfish

    cschottfish New Member

    Messages:
    128
    State:
    Ofallon, Mo.
    All jugs or other forms must be labled and attend. You must be with in sight of them unless they are tyed off or anckored with at least 3# of weight. If they look like they are old, ben in the water a long time and free floating I would consider removing them but you still get a ticket for that other wise do not mess with them. If you are at Mark Twain call the game warden his name is Bobby Lyaons. He is abought a nice a warden as you can get, like others have said its not worth the fight or the flat tires.
     
  12. cpalombo

    cpalombo New Member

    Messages:
    318
    State:
    Nashville TN
    Thanks guys. I have made up my mind on what I will do. If they are: 1) free floating, 2) with no weights, the bait is gone, and 3) with an address and phone number... I will pick them up and call the number telling the person that I have the noodle, and will offer to mail it back to them if they pay the mail cost. If there is no number, I will throw it out when I get back to the ramp. If they have bait, I will put them back.

    This is only if I see the single, unwatched, unweighted bottles ONLY. If they are weighted, and or baited I will not touch them or proptly put them back. If I get yelled at, I will hope the sportsman will understand my intention.

    I probably see 3-4 of these each time I go out on the MO just close to St Charles. I have only been out 2X, but counted 4 last time, and recall seeing a few the first time.

    As a rule, we should all decide to put out phone numbers on as well. Cell phones can assist with knowing if this is litter, or someone's day out.

    Maybe the BOC should put out a white paper on the issue to help clarify the ethics of finding a lost noodle??? I hate to think about what a PETA person would say seeing hoards of old noodles comming down the river. We are really open to critisism on these when they get away from us and become litter.

    CP
     
  13. btmfdr

    btmfdr New Member

    Messages:
    85
    State:
    missouri
    for real, if they are coming down river unattended get rid of them. its illegal to have free floating jugs out of sight and its illegal to litter, but screw that its bad for the fish.
     
  14. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    It concerns me, not that it should, about these comments about ignoring the law. I beleive all states regulations state you cannot run another person's lines. When you become the judge as to when it is legal to pull a line or not, your itching for trouble. The simplest thing to do in each circumstance is to leave them alone and notifiy the dept. of wildlife. No state's legislature has empowered you to "pick up the trash noodles/jugs" on the river. You are possibly biting off more than you will want to chew.
     
  15. Taliesin

    Taliesin New Member

    Messages:
    680
    State:
    Missouri
    I have to agree with you on that one even though Missouri is chronically short of conservation workers.
     
  16. cpalombo

    cpalombo New Member

    Messages:
    318
    State:
    Nashville TN
    I am not sure it is as simple as fisherman ignoring the law. I think you have it wrong. The issue here is balancing the law's wording with the intention behind the writing of the law. I think it is an issue where the law's wording is unclear in this circumstance because the law was not written to address this circumstance.

    I suspect that most reasonable persons would acknowledge that there is a law that bars one from poaching another's lines, and that this law is just. Poaching a line, however, is not really what we are talking about. Poaching a line implies malice. There is no malice in this situation, only a regard for the environment. I think that there is a real desire to leave the river better off then when we found it, which is sportsmanship.

    I would like to hear a Conservation Officer's take on this. Is there one in the BOC I wonder? Even a non-MO CO would be helpful.

    CP

     
  17. catfishcentral

    catfishcentral New Member

    Messages:
    1,497
    State:
    OK

    This is the best thing to do even if the jugs are not being attended to, and are in violation of the law. The only way to tell if someone else's jug besides your own is to pick it up and look for a name and address. That alone picking up somebody's else's jug just to look at it is a violation of the law. Game wardens are known to sit on shore or by boat to watch for game violations. Now if your picking up someone else's jug trying to be a good samaritan they can look as YOU as the person running illegal jugs. I think it would be hard for a person messing with someone else's jug to prove they were just helping out. You also don't know if that person's jugs is watching you or coming around the corner of the river bend. People might rather shoot you and hear that your trying to help clean up...to them your stealing even if there in violation of the law.
     
  18. TDawgNOk

    TDawgNOk Gathering Monitor (Instigator)

    Messages:
    3,365
    State:
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Lets face it, in Mo, Ark, and Ok there are several people who live back in the country, and don't worry about if they are following the law or not. These type people wouldn't hesitate to shoot if they thought you were messing with thier jugs.

    Take the safe route. CALL YOUR LOCAL DNR
     
  19. GaryF

    GaryF New Member

    Messages:
    3,649
    State:
    O.P., KS
    Chris (cpalombo),

    I appreciate your intentions, but I agree with the others that it is just asking for trouble. Right or wrong, your good intentions won't mean to much to a conservation agent who has heard every story in the book. From what I've seen, most setliners have lost fish / equipment in the past, and have a "take no prisoners" disposition when it comes to finding people messing with their lines.

    Unfortunately there is plenty of other trash in the river, I would just stick to picking up the stuff that doesn't have a line attached.
     
  20. sal_jr

    sal_jr New Member

    Messages:
    1,390
    State:
    Ithaca, MI
    chris,

    Of course you know (but for the benefit of others who do not) that michigan doesnt allow jugs, trots, or setlines here. When I saw them in the past I would take and cut up the line, toss the jug or limb yo yo and keep the hooks if theyre in good enough condition. I got 18 of them in a half mile stretch of the maple river one night. One trot line had 40 hooks on it with 30 of them baited with a gill. Well posession of gills is limited to 25- and trot lines are still illegal. The fish ate well that day cause they all went loose.

    I understand your intention cause Id likely have the same reaction as you- disgust in people's lack of care for the world around us.

    I gotta wonder though-
    The fellow who is doing it here in michigan on the maple- and I know exactly who he is, is well known to the local DNR. It turns out that I found out from the DNR at the Birch Run Expo this past February that this guy is an ex-toughman fighter. He did time. Serious time. The DNR guy told me never ever to take down someone's rig again in this area cause it is likely his, but to call the RAP line instead. He said the guy's a (expletive) nutcase.

    Anyhow, it is difficult to prove intentions- I suppose that is why some people who deserve jail go free and some who deserve freedom do time. Although I know (and some others here perhaps who may have met you) that you're an upstanding guy with a lot of disgust for the conditions of nature around you... having moved practically from the south shore of Eden itself recently to the big green river system. I know green water and musty stink arent as appealing as say, a day on the French River... but maybe these guys are right. Maybe that DNR guy gave good advice- Then again, maybe the DNR is behind in the times.

    TELL ME THIS, Fellow BOC folks- Why would you insist on jug fishing as a right at all? Would you go along with a proposal to do away with it? Do the bad apples out there spoil the bushel... truthfully? We seem to do plenty good in michigan without it and have a surprisingly clean set of major world class lakes here- save for the occasional empty pop bottle and worm can that people leave here and there... so why do you need to jug at all?

    I think this ought to be debated on a state level there... I also think that this ought to be debated on a BOC level- seriously looking at the benefits of having the right to jug fish versus the cost of cleanup, the average loss of jugs per person compounded by the number of fishermen, the waste involved in as much as litter from lost jugs and death of lost fish hooked on them...

    Perhaps looking into this is not a bad idea for the ethics committee of the BOC (whoever that is) to nose through.

    Great thread, Chris. And a good collection of responses too from fellow members. :wink:

    For or against it, something ought to be done besides nothing!
    sal