New Two Rod Regulation under consideration

Discussion in 'MINNESOTA RIVERS TALK' started by Goldenshinner, Aug 21, 2007.

  1. Goldenshinner

    Goldenshinner New Member

    ladies and gentlemen of the board. it seems rare that the public is well informed with potentialy new regulations before they are created. as i understand a two rod rule is being considered. in my opinion it makes sense, especialy for the river. if you are at all involved or interested in politics i would urge you to get involved and make you voice herd. as it seems that much of our laws are created by special interest groups that dont have the general publics interest in mind.
     
  2. nuthinlikeacat

    nuthinlikeacat New Member

    Messages:
    517
    State:
    Eden Prairie, Minnesota
    Thanks for the input!
    I like the thought of opening the rivers and streams up to 2 lines per person. Although it could be a good law, I already envision people sitting along the shore with 3 poles...as some people can never be happy with following the laws.

    Hopefully they will also examine the length law of bullheads for bait. I would like to see them lift the maximum length for bullheads.
     

  3. Goldenshinner

    Goldenshinner New Member

    Yes that is a perfect example of obscure laws in this state. interviewing several dnr fisheries employees the best explanation was that it was arbitrarily set more to distinguish between the commercial license (for food) and the bait harvesters license. (And yes there is a commercial fish harvesting license used for massive harvest levels of bullheads and carp which is sold for almost pennies a pound for cat food!!) their is NO REAL BENIFIT for preventing the fisherman from using larger bait, in fact it makes more sense if any. we(Minnesota) are trying to push for catch and release and more and more people are more interested in actually catching a trophy(and releasing it) it makes sense to selectively prevent smaller fish from getting hooked by using larger bait. some would argue that the states waters cannot sustain high levels of harvest of the larger fish(bullheads and other minnow species), that is compleate non-sense. Bullheads/ suckers/ and carp are all identified as underutilized fish in this state because the anual productivity of raw biomass way exceeds any demanded use. if we compare our state to say wisconsin which has roughly(somewhat) similar fishing population, there they are allowed to fish with game fish if included in the daily bag limit. this state has a number of obscure laws that realy dont reflect the interests of the public and in particular the ever growing crowd of both shore fisherpeople, and catfisherpeople in general.
     
  4. Dave L

    Dave L New Member

    Messages:
    1,012
    State:
    Minnesota
    Well for those that fish border waters, you can use two poles. The change is proposed for inner bodies of water. The no game fish for bait is what gets me. You could be fishing on the St.Croix right next to your buddy from Wisconsin and he has bluegill for bait and you can't, he's catching fish all day long and you aren't. The way I see it no matter where you come from if your going to fish that body of water your rules should be the same as the next guy.
    As for the rod thing, we should be allowed to use as many as we wish. Isn't that what bag limits are in place for? Who cares how fast we catch our limit? Daily limit is daily limit whether it is caught in five minutes or five hours. Other states have no restrictions on rod count and there fisheries are doing just fine.
    I think rod limits and bait restrictions are discouraging to future anglers. Say it is your first ever time fishing you buy your license, you buy your rod and reel, some tackle some bait and you go to the lake. You sit at the lake for hours and not so much as a bite on that one pole with that one bait. Are we having fun yet? Hope you get my point. Cause more lines in the water can certainty increase your chance of a hook up, changing that waste of time and money into some productive food harvest. I fish for fun as well as for food. This states rules are bassakwards as far as I am concerned.
     
  5. Pirate Jerry

    Pirate Jerry New Member

    Messages:
    613
    State:
    Yulee Florida
    ONE ROD !!! You gotta be kidding. It is very common in the south to use up to ten rods on one boat when crappie or hybrid/striper fishing. All set at different depths and different baits. Once the correct pattern is found then cut back to 4 or 5 rods cause thats all you can handle. Once you get your limit (or release all you want to catch) you stop fishing. Recreational fishermen (not game hogs who kill every thing they catch) are not a threat to fish stocks any where. Its poachers and commercial netters that wipe the fish out.. Since the netters have been restricted here in Florida the fishing is getting better every year.... There are still THIEVES that steal over the limits and oversized fish that are the breeding stock but you can bet I pull and burn illegal nets and monitor and report all violations that I see. Thieves they are and thieves I will call them !!!!
     
  6. CaptainBrad

    CaptainBrad Active Member

    Messages:
    622
    State:
    North Dakota
    Spending my time fishing the Red River on the North Dakota/Minnesota border where we can use to lines I am in favor of two lines in inland waters. Not that I have any say in Minnesota but I would strongly favor 2 poles per person on inland rivers.
     
  7. hanson

    hanson New Member

    Messages:
    94
    State:
    Plymouth, MN
    Its being worked on as we speak, and has been in process for over a year now. Good friend of mine Brian Klawitter has been at this (along with a few other guys) for quite awhile. The direction they are heading is bullheads up to 10" long can be used for bait.

    This was the latest word from the DNR, I believe from Linda Erickson-Eastwood.

    "I think that we are still on track for the bullhead language, but remember that it still has many hurdles to jump before it still becomes law. The language was approved by the Commissioner and we are working on getting a Statement of Need and Reasonableness prepared. The next step will be the Governor's approval to move ahead with the request to adopt. The earliest that this might get adopted if it makes it through all the hurdles is late September. "
     
  8. rushing

    rushing New Member

    Messages:
    561
    State:
    Minnesota
    The bullhead length proposed change is mentioned in the 2007 MN regs booklet. I am all for the two rod rule. I would like to see it as a two rod stamp deal. Buy the stamp, be able to use a second rod.
     
  9. Dave L

    Dave L New Member

    Messages:
    1,012
    State:
    Minnesota

    Why on earth would you want to pay twice for your fishing license, (that is what you are saying right?) as I had said earlier, why does it matter how many lines are in the water? It is the bag limit that regulates how many fish can be taken.
     
  10. DTro

    DTro Active Member

    Messages:
    243
    State:
    Minnesota
    First of all, there is nothing really going on right now with the two lines. the session is over. So at the very least this won't be revisited until early next year.

    There was a bill that was proposed that didn't make it far at all this year. I have the house and senate file numbers if anyone is interested. I also have a pretty large petition that was forwarded to a few legislators during the sessior this year regarding this matter.
    We can only hope it comes up again.

    Dave about the bag limits, the DNR doesn't caluculate that way. If everyone that fished, took a limit there would be no fish left.

    Also I would be in favor of Rob's comment. Just like a trout stamp. Buy the stamp, and you are allowed an extra line. The cost would literally be a drop in the bucket compared to everything else I buy to fish. And I would just consider it my entertainment expense.
    I don't think it would ever happen in this state as the catfish is still considered "rough" in most eyes.

    I would also be in favor of no fish over 35" kept.
     
  11. rushing

    rushing New Member

    Messages:
    561
    State:
    Minnesota
    You cant have your cake and eat it too. You want to double your chances at filling your limit then you should be willing to pay for it. You might not keep fish but there a lot of people out there who do which can devastate our fisheries if we aren't willing to pay for extra CO's and more management. Part of the reason we have such a great flathead fishery in the Minnesota river is due to the strict regs we have on it.

    Why not allow jug fishing and trot lines? You still have the same bag limit?
     
  12. nuthinlikeacat

    nuthinlikeacat New Member

    Messages:
    517
    State:
    Eden Prairie, Minnesota
    Why should I be willing to pay for it?? I fish 2 lines through the ice, and I dont have to pay for that. No difference, just different times of the season.

    jugs and trot lines...BAD idea. We all know what type of road that leads to. In 5 years I still want to catch and release 50 lb fish. That being said, IMHO trots and jugs would pretty much eliminate that thought. Although most on here would realease fish of that size, we all know/have seen plenty of people who wouldnt release the bigger fish. Not that they would anyway if it were caught on a rod, but the odds increase with the jugs and trots.

    Sure people have been doing it for years down south, But the catfish fishery is different down there. Some states 50 lb cats are of the norm. A 50+ cat up here is a trophy...has been and always will be, unless we loosen the laws, then the big fish may become even more rare.

    Is a 70+ MN flattie a possibility nowadays? yes. 20-30 years ago? Definitely. The possibility of one in the future, especially if they relax the laws, doubtful.

    AS for the Bullhead length limit, why have one at all? I cannot think of one person who DOESNT think we have a bullhead problem in our lakes, especially in southern MN. Let people take whatever size they want, afterall, if they want to use 10 oz of weight to keep one on the bottom, more power to ya!
     
  13. Goldenshinner

    Goldenshinner New Member

    I compleatly agree. I think that there should at the very least be a slot limit or closed season of the size between 30" and 48" , as that would atleast give the next potential record holder a chance to register or mount such a beast. it should also be a signed tag on the back of your fishing lisc. closed season is compleatly reasonable as these sizes are not healthy to eat, and no-one mounts catfish(or atleast it is rarely herd of, as they are difficult to mount)

    as too the the extra stamp or rod fee, I would probably do it, but honestly i think we pay enough already. it is very doubtfull that we would ever see any direct benifit from increased collections(at least in regards to the catfish bite) . the reality in my mind is that the river is a very difficult and massive streach of water to enforce, and ....got to go more coments latter......
     
  14. rushing

    rushing New Member

    Messages:
    561
    State:
    Minnesota
    Ryan, I was being sarcastic when I mentioned the jugging and trot lines, in response to the comment of "we still have the same bag limit". Hell no I don't want that crap on our river.

    Darren's comment is exactly right. If everyone kept their limit every time out there wouldn't be any fish left.

    Bottom line is this. Twice the rods = twice the chance to fill your bag limit which means more fish kept which means fishery being hurt. I would love to be able to fish two rods but I am willing to stick with one if it gives our fishery a better chance at staying at the same level it is at now. Flathead fishing pressure has absolutely exploded on the Minnesota river and not everyone is releasing fish. Until the DNR can figure out some better regulations to put on flatheads then I think we should stay with the one rod rule.

    One rod , no jugging or trot lines are the main reasons we still have a trophy flathead fishery on the Minnesota river.

    In reality we don't pay that much for a fishing license when you think about it. Its cheaper than one night at the bar or a dinner and a movie. It would be nice to just have the option to buy a second rod stamp . With as much as I fish and as much enjoyment I get out of fishing I more than get my moneys worth.

    Thats exactly why we need more money to have more CO's out there to protect our fisheries.
     
  15. Goldenshinner

    Goldenshinner New Member

    I completely agree. this state has way to high(and increasing) demand from this water system. Unfortunatly trotlines are there allready. I cut and toss afew every year. and i am super suspicious from time to time, as i watch people doing strange things that realy dont make sense at all. I know that on atleast one occasion i nearly caught a group seting lines, but they never came back as they must have gotton paranoid or something. Trotlines, and underwater hidden limb lines and the likes are just compleatly wrong for our waters.



    Here i am sorry but i dont compleatly agree. i realy dont think the fishery would change much be it one rod or three rods. with an exploding sport like this the bag limits, and size classes probably affect it more than anything. No offense intended(to the straigh hooked fans) i would also argue that a carefull examination of the open season and wether our rivers have the potential to be developed into a world class fishery by perhaps similar regulations like manitobas barbless or perhaps limit to circle hooks. I gave up on straight shaft hooks as it seemed a good portion of fish got throat hooked, but would such a cirlce hook rule make sense???

    but again as to the two rod rule, y must admit, that if such a rule passed you would join in. if we are all catch and relase(as im sure most of us cat kissing-licking fans are) than it realy shouldnt matter. for many i think it would dramiticaly help develop an understanding of comparison between say two sides or spots your fishing.
     
  16. Goldenshinner

    Goldenshinner New Member

    that would make more sense. no size restriction at all on live bait. as this state is moving towards a trophy sized fishery, using large baits helps prevent stress on smaller individuals in the population thus allowing them to grow unstressed(an interesting point as some research has sugested that rough handling of some fish will cause vertebrate damage and fusion, resulting in slower growth, and a lower ultimate length.)
     
  17. Goldenshinner

    Goldenshinner New Member

    oh and thats funny. i just realized, when were arguing about if two rod rule would change the world. it is also funny to think, we are actualy talking basicaly about the minnesota river only. As the ST.Croix has always been two rods, and if your a wis resident, you can get a permit for what i belive they call(something like) a set line. most of the missisiippi that has flatties is two lines, and in addition the mississippi has comercial trappers that decimate the fish populations way more than any clown with an extra snagged line would do.
     
  18. rushing

    rushing New Member

    Messages:
    561
    State:
    Minnesota
    Of course I would like I stated before and its not the catch and release fishermen I am worried about. As far as a world class fishery..well the Minnesota river is one of the top rated flathead rivers in the whole country.

    All I am is saying is with adding a second rod you are effectively doubling the already increasing fishing pressure. If you want to make sure it doesn't impact our trophy flathead fishery more money is needed for management. From what I understand the DNR is paying more attention to the increased pressure on the MN River because there are supposedly cat "contest" rule changes the DNR is working on. The increased popularity is shown in the number of "contests" held on the river. Went from 2 a few years back to now 4 and their was going to be a fifth one that didn't get their permit in on time. Large flatheads aren't walleyes that can be replaced in a year or two, much care is needed to protect this valuable resource. So I think paying an extra couple of bucks is a small price to pay.
     
  19. nuthinlikeacat

    nuthinlikeacat New Member

    Messages:
    517
    State:
    Eden Prairie, Minnesota
    I hope to see a 2 rod limit in the future. I just dont want to pay to play(extra line). Afterall, why would it be ok to fish w/2 lines in the winter, and have to pay for 2 in the summer? Could change the law completely to where you have to pay to fish with 2 lines, but that would really upset the avid ice fishing population, especially our senior citizens, who have been doing this for years.

    Why not just increase the license? I spent over $200 on a weeks vacation getting differnet fishing licenses from southern states. Our fishing licenses are incredibly cheap, compared to a lot of states.Sure I paid for an out of state license when I went, but the state angler license prices were unreal to say the least. Even 30 bucks for a full years of fishing in MN equals $2.50 a month. If the average sportsman complains about that, than they either need to take up another sport, or check out other states Fishing license fees.

    Rob~ I figured you were being sarcastic:wink:, as I really dont know other than a select few who would want trots/jugs in MN. IMHO I believe the people that want jugs/trots are also the ones taking the big fish out of the waters, with no cares about what a fish like that means(at least in MN, no offense to the ppl in other states where its legal).
     
  20. Pirate Jerry

    Pirate Jerry New Member

    Messages:
    613
    State:
    Yulee Florida
    I see a lot of comments that being able to use more than one rod would be a threat to the future of fishing.. Take a look at the states that have tremendous catfish, bass, crappie ect fisherys.. Mostly in the South, NC, SC, GA,FL and others. Most have no limits on the number of rods you can use but the size and bag limits are enforced. Also commercial fishing is closely watched. Jugs, limb lines and trot lines should be classified as commercial and expensive licenses should be required for them. the average Joe who wants to go fishing and toss out two or three rods, lean back and enjoy sport fishing should not be penalized.. His take is already limited by current bag and size limits.