New to boats here, advice and info needed

Discussion in 'Boat Tips' started by AllenM, Jun 4, 2006.

  1. AllenM

    AllenM Guest

    Well, as some of you know, last fall I got my first boat. It's a 1959 14 foot wards seaking aluminum fishing boat with a 9.8 HP 2 stroke engine. Got it for $500. Took it out a few times and I think there might be a minor leak in the hull towards the bow and when I'm up front and the motor's running full out I can hear a little squeaking from that area as it pounds the waves. Nothing serious though, far as I can tell. In a day of fishing with 3 grown men and tackle boxes etc., it took on maybe a gallon or two of water at the most, and considerably less when it was just me and one buddy. I figured some of that can be accounted for by splash over while under way. Bought new plugs to see if that would stop the problem though and planning to seal the inside of the bow with silicone after I strip and sand it down good. Is there a way to replace the rivets that hold the bow together though? Any info / advice on that end of things would be a great help.

    Also, would like any leads on info where I can find out the max HP rating for this boat, max weight, etc. I'd like to redo the interior and put light blue outdoor carpet on the wooden bench seats and deck boards as well as build in a live well. Had all the boards and seats out of the boat to run wiring for running lights since it didn't have any on it when I bought it, and I noticed there is no foam anywhere in the boat. Should I get some? And where / how should I put it in?

    Any and all info, tech specs, suggestions, and/or advice is more than welcome.

    Thanks guys! :smile2:
     
  2. Doyle

    Doyle New Member

    Messages:
    582
    State:
    Illinois
    If it has no floatation, I would put some in. It don't bother me much when it is warm, but when it gets cold and the boat sinks, you may not make it out even with a jacket.
     

  3. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    I would say, completley off the top of my head, that if you had 3 grown men, tackle boxes, fuel, possibly a battery & trolling motor, bait, and possibly some soft drinks, you were close to, if not exceeding, the max weight for the boat. You didn't, to my knowledge, state wether it was a jon boat or a semi V bottom, and that makes a difference as the freeboard on the V bottom should be greater than the jon boats. As to capacities, you may do a search on the US Coast Guards web pages. I believe another brother once sent me the link for a boat problem I was having, and if your lucky, one of the knowledgeable brothers will send you the link. If you can find the rivets which are leaking, you and your friend with two ball peen hammers can usually brad the rivet to get it to stop leaking. If you silicone the rivets, I believe you'd want to do it on the outside of the boat. Don't put it on thick, it's like Brylcream - a little dab will do you. I just think as it stands you are pushing the limits quite a bit, and would hate for you to sink your ship. LOL. Be careful.
     
  4. AllenM

    AllenM Guest

    Found this MAX HP formula: L X W X 2 - 90 = Max HP

    The poster there said it was adopted by the USCG in the 70's but never "officially". 14' x (guesstimating) 4' x 2 - 90 = 22, so if my boat is 4 feet wide I guess it would be rated for 22HP. Been considering the possability of brazing the hull seem in the bow... if I recall correctly that's what you have to do with aluminum, right? I do know you can't "weld" it by normal means. If I braze the seem to strengthen the bow and put a 20hp on it then I'm inclined to believe it would certainly be river worthy.

    In answer to your comment, AwShucks, I'm not greatly familiar with the terminology you're using, being that this is my first boat. Can you define a semi V and a john boat for me? I'm assuming the semi V is what I have and the john boats are flat bottomed from front to back, but I want to be sure I know what I'm talking about before giving a definate answer. I'm including a pic of my boat with this post if it helps.

    I'm still looking for a formula that they use to determine max safe weight limitations, so if anyone finds it or knows it, please post it or PM me with the info.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. jdstraka

    jdstraka Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    4,722
    State:
    Council Bluffs, Iowa
    Name:
    John
    Allen the boat is a semi v hull boat. And yes you can put new rivets in it. Have a friend help you so you can pound them tight. and you should put some flotation under the seats you can use the kind that they use under floating Docks and cut it to fit.check what kind of shape your transom of your boat is in and if it's sound I think it should handle a 20HP motor I also belive that three people with full gear is pushing the max on capacity of the boat. In calm water it might be alright but if it the weather turns bad before you get back to the ramp You might be in trouble. Be careful especially on the river!!! Bigcatman0816.:big_smile:
     
  6. catsmith1

    catsmith1 New Member

    Messages:
    1,073
    State:
    Haughton, Louisiana
    Nice rig allen. I definatly would add the foam. As far as the motor Just dont get carried away and triple check the transomfor cracks or rotted wood. Not an area to overlook.

    As far as three peopleand gear, I have done alot of hours in a 10 fy jon with the same load but make sure you wear a life jacket while underway for sure with that kinda load. I got creative with my boat I have now to keep the weight down. you will find some good ideas out there.

    Have fun!
     
  7. FishMan

    FishMan New Member

    Messages:
    2,293
    State:
    Tennessee
    3 people is 1 to many, just my thought
     
  8. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    Yes, it is a V bottom. The important thing is the freeboard you have on the boat. Freeboard is the distance from the water to the top of the side of the boat, at its lowest point. Your boat displaces water, and as long as the amount of water it displaces is less than the length, width and depth of your boat, it will float. The constants of your boat is the length and depth. The more weight you add, the less free board you will have. If it ever gets to the point that the water starts breaking over the side of you boat, your gonna get very, very wet. Therefore you have to look at everything you put into the boat so see how it is going to effect your freeboard. A jon boat does not have much free board at all, whereas you boat will come close to having twice as much as the jon boat. That in itself does not mean you can carry twice the load than what the jon will carry.

    I am sure you have seen the movies or tv news reports of the hydroplaning boat races. Invariably one flips clean over. That is what the horsepower can do to a fishing boat if you put too much on it. The larger the motor also, the more weight you have added - which means you must carry less gear. The transom of fishing boats are possibly their weakest link. You hang too much of a motor on there, your gonna damage the transom. I can almost guarantee you that it won't crack or pull apart until you are a long ways from shore. When it does, the boat will normally play submarine. You don't want that. Be patient, don't overload the boat, don't over power the boat. Plenty of people use 5, 71/2, 10 or 15 HP motors on boats that size. Be safe.
     
  9. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    Here is info from the US Coast Guards web pages on motor size.

    * * * * *

    Can I use a bigger motor on my boat than what it's rated for?

    It is not a violation of Coast Guard regulations to install or use an engine larger than specified on the capacity label, but there may be state regulations prohibiting it, and restrictions from your own insurance company regarding this. There are no Coast Guard regulations against exceeding the safe loading capacity, however, there may be State regulations or restrictions from your insurance company which prohibit this. There is a Coast Guard regulation that gives Coast Guard Boarding Officers the power to terminate the use of a boat (send it back to shore) if, in the judgment of the Boarding Officer, the boat is overloaded. There is no fine for this, unless the operator refuses the Boarding Officer's order. We certainly hope that you will abide by the rating, as overloading may lead to capsizing or swamping of the boat.

    NOTE: The Coast Guard Capacity Information label is required only on monohull boats less
    than 20' in length. The label is not required on multi-hull boats, pontoon boats (catamarans), or
    on any sailboats, canoes, kayaks, or inflatable boats, regardless of length
     
  10. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    Info from US Coast Guard web pages regarding capacity on I/O boats.

    * * * * * * *

    Sec. 183.33——Maximum weight capacity: Inboard and inboard-outdrive boats
    (a) The maximum weight capacity (W) marked on a boat that has one or more inboard or
    inboard-outdrive units for propulsion must not exceed the greater value of W obtained from
    either of the following formulas:
    W = (maximum displacement) – boat weight - 4(machinery weight)
    5 5 5


    W = (maximum displacement –– boat weight)

    5

    (b) For the purposes of paragraph (a) of this section:
    (1) Maximum displacement is the weight of the volume of water displaced by the boat
    at its maximum level immersion in calm water without water coming aboard. For the
    purpose of this paragraph, a boat is level when it is transversely level and when either of
    the two following conditions are met:
    (i) The forward point where the sheer intersects the vertical centerline plane and
    the aft point where the sheer intersects the upper boundary of the transom (stern)
    are equidistant above the water surface or are equidistant below the water
    surface.
    (ii) The most forward point of the boat is level with or above the lowest point of
    water ingress.
    (2) Boat weight is the combination of:
    (i) Hull weight;
    (ii) Deck and superstructure weight;
    (iii) Weight of permanent appurtenances; and
    (iv) Weight of full permanent fuel tanks.
    (3) Machinery weight is the combined weight of installed engines or motors, control
    equipment, drive units, and batteries.
     
  11. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    Info from US Coast Guard web page in ref: weight capacity of outboards.\

    * * * * *

    Sec. 183.35——Maximum weight capacity: Outboard boats
    (a) The maximum weight capacity marked on a boat that is designed or intended to use one or
    more outboard motors for propulsion must be a number that does not exceed one-fifth of the
    difference between its maximum displacement and boat weight.
    (b) For the purposes of paragraph (a) of this section:
    (1) Maximum displacement is the weight of the volume of water displaced by the boat
    at its maximum level immersion in calm water without water coming aboard except for
    water coming through one opening in the motor well with its greatest dimension not
    over 3 inches for outboard motor controls or fuel lines. For the purpose of this
    paragraph, a boat is level when it is transversely level and when either of the two
    following conditions are met:
    (i) The forward point where the sheer intersects the vertical centerline plane and
    the aft point where the sheer intersects the upper boundary of the transom (stern)
    are equidistant above the water surface or are equidistant below the water
    surface.
    (ii) The most forward point of the boat is level with or above the lowest point of
    water ingress.
    (2) Boat weight is the combination of:
    (i) Hull weight;
    (ii) Deck and superstructure weight;
    (iii) Weight of permanent appurtenances; and
    (iv) Weight of full permanent fuel tanks.
    [CGD 72-61, 37 FR 15782, Aug. 4, 1972, as amended by CGD 73-250, 40 FR 43857, Sept. 23,
    1975; CGD 75-176, 42 FR 2681, Jan. 13, 1977; USCG-1999-5832, 64 FR 34716, June 29, 1999]
    Sec. 183.37——Maximum weight capacity: Boats rated for manual propulsion and boats rated
    for outboard motors of 2 horsepower or less
    (a) The maximum weight capacity marked on a boat that is rated for manual propulsion or for
    motors of 2 horsepower or less must not exceed 3/10 of the difference between the boat’’s
    maximum displacement and the boat’’s weight in pounds.
    (b) For the purposes of paragraph (a) of this section:
    (1) Maximum displacement is the weight of the volume of water displaced by the boat
    at its maximum level immersion in calm water without water coming aboard. For the
    purpose of this paragraph, a boat is level when it is transversely level and when either of
    the two following conditions are met:
    (i) The forward point where the sheer intersects the vertical centerline plane and
    the aft point where the sheer intersects the upper boundary of the transom (stern)
    are equidistant above the water surface or are equidistant below the water
    surface.
    (ii) The most forward point of the boat is level with or above the lowest point of
    water ingress.
    (2) Boat weight is the combination of:
    (i) Hull weight;
    (ii) Deck and superstructure weight; and
    (iii) Weight of permanent appurtenances.
     
  12. AllenM

    AllenM Guest

    Uh.... I was right there with you until you started speaking USCG regs. I guess the W in the formula I found does NOT stand for width then. So how in blazes do I find out what my boat weighs, or any of that other stuff?? I'm TOTALLY lost now! I WAS thinking that 15hp would work and be sufficient for the main body of the river as long as my trasnome is in good shape, but now I'm back to square one and don't have a clue!

    Dumb it down for me, would ya?? In plain old english, how do I figure out the max weight for my boat, including motors, interior, and all that crap? And how do I figure out what is the max HP my hull and transom can handle? I can't make heads or tails out of all that nautical talk. This is my first boat.