Muzzle loading slight problem

Discussion in 'Guns - Blackpowder' started by fat_fish55, Oct 23, 2006.

  1. fat_fish55

    fat_fish55 New Member

    Messages:
    394
    State:
    illinois
    well after the first couple shots it is harder then heck to seat the sabot on the power
    i have to use all my body weight to shove it down
    also if i try to clean down that far with my ramrod and cleaning jag the jag will get stuck down there and i have to remove the breech plug and push it threw
    anyone know why?
    thanks
     
  2. Kittycatcher

    Kittycatcher New Member

    Messages:
    260
    State:
    Clarksville, Te
    Are you using loose powder or pellets? Are you using sabot or conacals? I have found out if I run a cleaning patch with Bore cleaner and then run a dry patch through, it makes it easier to load sabot between firing, for sight in Black Powder Rifle. I also use a patch with a lite coating of bore butter before each load. Now I don't do this in the field just only when sight in the the rifle.
     

  3. coltsfan

    coltsfan New Member

    Messages:
    714
    State:
    ohio
    what kind of gun are you shooting and like the other post powder ,pellets sabots or what need a little more info.are you using bore butter , or lubricated patches?
     
  4. bootshowl

    bootshowl New Member

    Messages:
    2,288
    State:
    Indiana, J
    Hey Fat Fish. Is your gun new? New barrels need seasoning just like the old cast iron cookware...Goodie hit you right. Clean it. Shoot it. Run a patch with T/C #13 cleaner down her. Run a dry patch. Then run a T/C bore butter patch down her. Then shoot her. Repeat steps. As she seasons she'll dial herself in. As she seasons she will foul less. That's why we have range rods, and then for hunting just a palm saver or something.
    Make sense? If it's a new gun & you follow this "process" I think after around 30 rounds or so you will notice a big difference. Hope this helps.
    I was guessing without more info. Sabots take a little longer to break in a barrel than conicals, as what you are pushing is a softer material. Be sure and butter her for you put her up. Good hunting...
    :smile2:
     
  5. bootshowl

    bootshowl New Member

    Messages:
    2,288
    State:
    Indiana, J
    I forgot to remind you to pop a cap without a charge between shots to keep from having moisture problems in your ignition after you swab the barrel.
     
  6. Paraguayguy

    Paraguayguy Active Member

    Messages:
    1,651
    State:
    Virginia
    Sabots are tough to load after a shot. Before I switched to Powerbelt bullets I always spit on a patch after every shot. I then ran two or three patches through until they come out clean. It was the only way to get another sabot loaded. I even cut a hand size piece of white oak limb and drilled a hole slightly larger than my ram rod's diameter to place over the ram rod end while loading so I wouldn't tear my palm up trying to get those blankety blank sabots to load.
    Powerbelt bullets are true 50 caliber. When I bought my encore and called Thompson to get load recommendations, they told me to use their 250 grain saboted bullets with 100 grains of pyrodex. Told me I would lose accuracy with the Powerbelt bullets. I probably shot 50 or so rounds using the sabots and my brother got me to try Powerbelts. I had sighted my rifle at 100 yards with the sabots and absolutely experienced no change on the target when I switched to powerbelts. They shoot perfect and if you ever try loading one, you will throw those sabots as far away as you can. I'll never use sabots again. The powerbelts slide down the barrel with minimal push and deliver consistant accuracy down range.
     
  7. barefootarkie

    barefootarkie New Member

    Messages:
    33
    State:
    central Ar
    The following was taken from Powerbelt.com:

    'With sabots, cleaning between every shot is necessary to maintain accuracy - and in many cases just to get the next sabot down the barrel. Why? Because sabots leave a plastic residue in the rifling every time you shoot a round. If not thoroughly cleaned, this residue robs your barrel of accuracy and makes loading a quick follow-up shot very difficult.'

    While most BP cleaning solvents will not clean the plastic fouling, There is one called 'Black Powder Gel' that claims to do it all. I don't know, I've not tried it. I'm with Paraguayguy. Powerbelts are the way to go.

    Jimmy


    http://www.powerbeltbullets.com/faqs.html

    http://www.shooters-choice.com/products/cleaning_solvents/black_powder_cleaning_gel.htm
     
  8. fat_fish55

    fat_fish55 New Member

    Messages:
    394
    State:
    illinois
    i am shooting a knight disk elite with sabots and loose old pyrodex
    i am switching over to jim shockey american pioneer powder stick ( says much cleaner burning)and powerbelts in the heaviest i can find
    on a site where a guy reviewed muzzleloaders of all types he said the knight disc elite with the heaviest powerbelts (like 405 grain or something) was the most accurate muzzleloader he has ever shot with .5 grouping at 100 yards, they dont make it anymore though

    another question about these powder "sticks"
    i am guessing that you put them in then when you push down it mashes them into powder again to seat the bullet right?
    is that how it works?
    thanks
    and while im at it :) i have a stainless barrel and in two tiny spots there are tiny little "freckles" of rust, very small dots that i cant scrub out any ideas? wont effect shooting but would like to remove anyway
     
  9. coltsfan

    coltsfan New Member

    Messages:
    714
    State:
    ohio
    i'm assuming the sticks are the same as pellets and all you do is drop them in and seat the sabot on top .you do not crush them back to powder
     
  10. bootshowl

    bootshowl New Member

    Messages:
    2,288
    State:
    Indiana, J
    Hey this is interesting. Other than the old which is more accurate, or the guy who won't shoot anything but a patch ball black powder,,,(notice I haven't met one who wears buckshins in the cold) I haven't heard or had a problem with the sabots. Are you guys using the jag tip for sabots? You know you have to have a special jag tip for sabots. About 5.00 but if you use a traditional tip with sabots it will do what I'm hearing. Just wondering as I am member at a BP club. Love the thunder!
     
  11. bootshowl

    bootshowl New Member

    Messages:
    2,288
    State:
    Indiana, J
    Fat Fish rub that bore butter on the outside too....It's all good.
    Guess you figured out stainless will rust.....just not as fast. Love the thunder!
     
  12. flathead willie

    flathead willie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,241
    State:
    Virginia
    I have the same problem with my Ruger. After the first couple shots it takes two men and a small boy to get another round down the barrel. I use loose Pyrodex and Sabots. I'm going to pick up some Powerbelts tomorrow and try them.
     
  13. bootshowl

    bootshowl New Member

    Messages:
    2,288
    State:
    Indiana, J
    I'm shooting a T/C Omega 50cal with the 250gr Shockwave sabots. But I clean between shots. Guess thats why I'm not having any trouble.....How did the Powerbelts work out for ya Willie? You never posted back. Hit me Brother, curious to know. My neck is swelling just a little, and the
    wife is wondering why I'm so frisky after 27yrs.....must be harvest time.
    :lol:
     
  14. flathead willie

    flathead willie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,241
    State:
    Virginia
    Boots, I just made the other post last night. I bought the Powerbelts about 30 minutes ago. It's raining pretty hard here today but I'm going out to do some scouting anyway. I'll empty the Sabot out that was left in the gun on Saturday and try the new bullets after I come home and clean my gun.
     
  15. bootshowl

    bootshowl New Member

    Messages:
    2,288
    State:
    Indiana, J
    Raining here too...I'll go grab some Maxihunter 275 or 350 grain. Be at the range Sat. and post Sat. night my results also. Being limited to slugs only in Indiana, I was so pleased at the performance of the shockwave last year, it was all I tried. But a fella should be open minded, & should try more than one type of projectile in whatever gun he's shouldering. Who knows, I might toss those sabots out too.
    :smile2:
     
  16. flathead willie

    flathead willie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,241
    State:
    Virginia
    Boots, I hope your luck is better then mine. I went out like I said, in the rain, because I'm scouting a new area. It was a good day for stalking so I eased about 2 miles back into the National Forest along a creek with hardwoods on the left side and Mountain Laurel thickets all along the mountain across the creek on the right. With 2 1/2 hours of daylight left I decided to go up the mountain on the down wind side of the creek (hardwoods) and stalk my way back watching the creek bottom and thickets as I went. I got back to an oak flat where I had killed a deer during bow season and was only a few hundred yards from my truck and hadn't seen a thing all afternoon. By that time I was soaking wet, it was almost dark, and I was getting cold so I headed down the logging road toward the truck. Thinking the hunt was done I emptied my gun into a dead tree, so I could clean it and try those Powerbelts I just bought, and headed out of the woods. I only went about 30 yards when I saw a Doe take off from the edge of the logging road I was on....with a nice buck right behind her! They ran about 50 yards, stopped to look back at me, then ran up the side of the mountain. And there I am with an empty gun, standing in the rain, cussing like a drunk sailor!!! I knew I should have hunted that last 300 yards and emptied the gun when I got back to the truck, but Oh No! "Sometimes it doesn't even pay to chew thru the restraints!" Nurse, can I have my meds now?
     
  17. bootshowl

    bootshowl New Member

    Messages:
    2,288
    State:
    Indiana, J
    Welcome to my world Brother. My hunting starts the 18th & I am pumped and concerned all at the same time....If I didn't enjoy the outdoors so much I'd just go to the grocery. But every year ya see so much you forgot during the other pursuits, and you remember how the good Lord meant for you to be....gonna go till I just can't anymore. But I'll have at least one story. I wish I had em written all down in a journal. If ya haven't; put one up on the "Fess Up" thread for the kids. Mine tops yours I bet. But I'm lucky in Indiana you get 2 weeks to screw up for shotguns or pistols, then 2 weeks for smokepoles. I can only get 2 in my little freezer. The odds are in my favour!
    :wink:
    God loves an optimist.
     
  18. flathead willie

    flathead willie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,241
    State:
    Virginia
    Yea, it could be worse. The rut is just starting. We still have 12 more days of black powder, then 2 weeks of rifle, then 2 more weeks of black powder starting Dec. 16th. You need a bigger freezer, Boots. I put five in my freezer last year and I only have 2 roasts left from last years deer.
     
  19. flathead willie

    flathead willie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,241
    State:
    Virginia
    I tried those 50 cal. Powerbelts yesterday and they do load much easier. The package suggested 110-150 grains of Powder so I went with 120 grains. The muzzle blast was really something. I was shooting from the prone position on wet leaves and the blast blew away several years of settled leaves for about 6 feet in front of me. The shots were 2 inches high and 2 inches left of where the Sabots were hitting at 100 yards. I'm ready to see what they do on a deer now.
     
  20. Paraguayguy

    Paraguayguy Active Member

    Messages:
    1,651
    State:
    Virginia
    What weight did you buy to try out. My brother gave me two packs of 245 grain bullets for my 50 caliber. The sabots I had been shooting were 250 grain 45 caliber. Both shoot the same. My brother loaned me his bench rest rifle cradle to sight my rifle in. What a huge improvement over sand bags. When you get the legs of the cradle all adjusted and the rifle strapped in, there is no wiggle wobble when you look through the scope. and equally important, zero felt recoil as the cradle weighs about 20 pounds absorbing all recoil.

    For the first time in my life I knew for sure that my point of aim was true as there could be no error on my part. I used it three weeks ago and re sighted in every rifle I own that sports a scope. I inherited an old Weatherby Mark V 257 magnum that I hadn't shot in 30 years. I shot 30 year old reloads and they worked as good as the day I loaded them. I am going to give that rifle to my son to use this year.