Motivated by failure

Discussion in 'Terminal Tackle Review' started by Blueyedturtle, May 4, 2020.

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  1. Blueyedturtle

    Blueyedturtle New Member

    Messages:
    15
    State:
    Ohio
    Name:
    Dylan
    Recently I've started targeting bigger fish, I've been bottom fishing a lake near by with bluegill as bait. It has treated me with several nice sized channal catfish (5-8lbers) . Today I hook the biggest fish of my life, I'm assuming a flathead atleast 20lb. I was running 30lb mono with a slip sinker to a swivel with 25lb mono leader. The fish picked up the bait and I let him swim a few feet with it before setting the hook. He headed straight for deep water, my drag was far too tight but he managed to pull several feet before breaking me off at the hook. I was using an improved clinch knot. Could that (plus my drag) be have been the problem? What knots should I use for heavy line and big hooks?
     
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  2. Brackish*Water

    Brackish*Water Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,181
    State:
    Texas
    Name:
    Wesley
    when I joined this place the only time I ever saw snelled hooks was those packs of eagle claw leaders with the loops on the end.
    I didnt even know a person could actually snell a hook. I thought machines did it or if a person did it it was really complicated.
    but alas now I snell everything in short order.
     
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  3. twaskom

    twaskom Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,349
    State:
    Indiana
    Name:
    Tom
    Welcome to the USCA forum. We have a few buckeyes on here.

    Somewhat depends on the hook you are using Dylan. The Improved Clinch knot is a common knot when using J hooks. If you were using circle hooks it is better with the snell knot. But I am not sure the knot was your problem. I think having the drag set so tight may have been the primary cause of the problem. ou want that drag to be able to slip just for the purpose of protecting the line. Ince you have hooked a big fish, it is easy to tighten the drag but if it starts out too tight, it is usually too late when you think about it.

    At least you felt his weight and know where he was passing thru. Better chance to land him next time.
     
  4. Flat Top

    Flat Top Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    386
    State:
    Missouri
    Name:
    George
    I have used the Improved clinch knot forever and never had a problem..........BUT....I retie my rigs directly after each trip, and sometimes during the day (after a snag or a catch) if I feel its necessary. I also use the snell from time to time with excellent results. I have also seen some fisherman tie a knot and then put an undue strain on the line by trying to pull the knot way too tight. That weakens the line. When I tie any knot I am very careful about stacking the wraps properly, and applying just enough pressure to snug it up where it wont slip...no more is needed.

    I use braid mainline, but, I always run my leaders at least 10 lbs heavier.

    I preset my drag just to a point where I can strip line from the spool under pressure, yet keep it tight enough to set the hook......when the fish is on I can adjust the drag to suit the load. If your drag is set too tight, you could break off...many fisherman use a scale (like a fish scale, a drag scale, or just weights) to set their drags.

    Another issue that will snap a line is a sticky drag pack. The drag must be smooth throughout its range to apply even pressure to the line. If the line is under pressure and the drag sticks it may increase the tension on the line and cause a break off. Six of one thing...a dozen of another!

    One more thing...how old was your line?
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
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  5. Herbhome

    Herbhome Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    593
    State:
    Arkansas
    Name:
    Neill
    Welcome Dylan,
    That's. some fish in your avatar pic. I don't have anything to add to those above. They know what they are talking about. Tight lines!
     
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  6. Blueyedturtle

    Blueyedturtle New Member

    Messages:
    15
    State:
    Ohio
    Name:
    Dylan
    My leader (the part that snapped) had just been rigged up that afternoon when I got on the water.
     
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  7. Flat Top

    Flat Top Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    386
    State:
    Missouri
    Name:
    George
    Hmmmm..........you said it broke off at the hook....was there any remnant of a knot where it broke, or was it a clean break in the leader line?
     
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  8. twaskom

    twaskom Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,349
    State:
    Indiana
    Name:
    Tom
    If the leader is what broke, it should normally break at a knot. When comparing a knot to the same straight line (in good condition) the knot is the weaker place. Shouldn't really matter though. A broken line is not the end of the season, retie and jump back in.
     
  9. Ammo

    Ammo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,793
    State:
    Glendale, AZ
    Name:
    Don
    If there is the possibility of hooking into a big flat, my line will always be 80 to 100 lb braid. Makes drag settings a fair bit more forgiving. Plus, a flat will usually make for the nearest snag, so it allows for you to impose your will a bit more.
     
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  10. eastforker

    eastforker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,917
    State:
    Indiana
    Name:
    Stacee
    Drag being set correctly will help protect your line from breaking.
    Keeping an eye out for nicks and abrasions in your line and leader will also help a lot.
    As the fish get closer to a landing I will also loosen the drag a little more just in case they make another run which is also when a fish breaks line or the hook gets pulled out.
    Two most trusted knots I use the most are the Palomar and the Snell knot.
    Going up to a heavier line size is another good option for extra protection from line breakage.
     
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  11. Blueyedturtle

    Blueyedturtle New Member

    Messages:
    15
    State:
    Ohio
    Name:
    Dylan
    When I hooked him he did just that, I was able to dissuade him from doing so by using the rod to apply pressure away from the snag. When he felt that he took off straight for the main river channel, that's when he broke me off.
     
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  12. Blueyedturtle

    Blueyedturtle New Member

    Messages:
    15
    State:
    Ohio
    Name:
    Dylan
    There was a slight kink in the line where it had broke which was what lead me to believe it was at the knot or just above.
     
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  13. Flat Top

    Flat Top Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    386
    State:
    Missouri
    Name:
    George
    I have noticed at times that I put too much ooomph into tightening up a knot that I tie, and I have to keep reminding myself not to do that. After reading this thread I tied up a knot and really bore into it when I tightened it up....I could actually see that the line was being stressed and that surely would weaken it at or near the knot. I have always made the attempt to stack the windings of the knot neatly, lube/wet the line, and GENTLY bring it all together a bit at a time until it is snug. That might have been the issue, along with the drag being set a bit on the tight side. It may be a number of things that contributed to the break off, but like Tom said...just retie and jump back in. Also you said that you thought it was a 20 pounder....maybe...maybe not, heck, it was probably a new Ohio state record, and 30 lb line just was not enough to haul it in!!!!:rolleyes1:
     
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  14. JByrd

    JByrd Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    649
    State:
    S.C.
    Name:
    Thomas D Price
    I use fish weighing scales to set my drag. I set up the rod and reel at a 45 degree or so angle up and pull on the line (on the hook) as if I had a fish. I set mine at 10 or 12 lb. 20-30 lb. mono, 50 lb Berkley leader-line, stainless swivel & latch, 7/0 Hookers circles.
     
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  15. 1gr8bldr

    1gr8bldr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    285
    State:
    north carolina
    Name:
    Marty
    Could have been a state record.... who knows. Always fun to think about the possibilities. However, back to the point. The drag is supposed to be the compensatory protection of the line. The line supposedly being the weak link that the drag protects. But the knots are the weakest link between you and the fish assuming you don't have a weakened line, by a nick, a wear from a sliding weight, etc. I suggest you get you a knot chart and have fun with this. Tie many knots and test them. Whether true or not... I assume that the best knot for braid is also the best knot for mono. Braid line is terribly prone to cut itself in the knot. So, if you find a strong knot for braid then likely you have a strong knot for mono. There is also a practically of it. Can you tie the knot efficiently, possibly by feel. A practical knot? I need a simple knot because I can't see well anymore. So, when I tested knots, I must have tried 30. 25 at least broke waaaay to easy due to the braid cutting the line. The remaining 5 were close but 2 stood out as better, noticeably better. I had to tie many, many times to prove my favorite as the best but it did show itself superior. I had fun with it. And I use this knot because I know it to be superior, not because someone else said so. Having a confidence in what you do can be satisfying. And... luckily, it's the most practical knot of all the choices. Glad of that. PM me sometime after you have done your own testing and we can compare
     
  16. 1gr8bldr

    1gr8bldr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    285
    State:
    north carolina
    Name:
    Marty
    LOL, it won't be the last time you get broke off. Those memories will cause you to lay in bed and wonder sometimes.... How big was he. What went wrong, what can I do next time............ LOL, I have lost lots of sleep over one particular fish.... I bet this would make a great thread topic
     
  17. twaskom

    twaskom Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,349
    State:
    Indiana
    Name:
    Tom
    It is nothing new to learn because of a failure. Many will say that is the only way you learn. When you fail at something, you either quite because it meant nothing to you or you put some time in figuring out what went wrong or at least what could make it better. That to me is a good thing.

    Don't lose sleep over it. If I did that it would make it something I did not enjoy. Fishing is supposed to be fun. Keep it that way.
     
  18. 1gr8bldr

    1gr8bldr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    285
    State:
    north carolina
    Name:
    Marty
    I hooked into a fish one night.... I'll never forget as long as I live. I have caught hundreds of fish over 50 lbs. I know what they feel like. I know what to expect. 70% of the biggest fish will surprisingly come straight to the boat, making you think they are going to pass it. I don't know why? But, that's not the point. At that moment when they go from coming to you, that moment they pass you... The pull on the fish goes from pulling him the direction he was going to all that you got in terms of drag, etc. Usually, you then feel that tail, as he puts it in high. Of all the fish I have ever caught, I feel the tail, sometimes the head. Smaller fish, roll, struggle, etc. But larger fish usually "pull". This fish, oh the power. Revealed by the fact that I never, not once "felt" him. It was as if he never struggled under the pressure I was applying. I watched... as he left out, at lawn mower speed. Never feeling him. He never speed up or slowed down. Half a spool left and I started thumbing the spool. I was telling my fishing buddy that I had no choice. He was either going to spool me or break off, of which I think it best to at least try to stop him. Thumbing him as I did, I'm surprised I did not break off. I was putting the pressure on him. About 220 yds out, very untypical of a catfish, it's as if he rounded a corner, and then nothing, as my line got cut. maybe a snag he intended to hit, I don't know. But that fish..... LOL, I made plans, that, if that ever happened again.... I cut all fishing and anchor lines... and go after him. I just kept thinking he would end his run, like a shark does. But, if you don't begin right away, cutting lines, you don't have enough time. however, the fact that I never once felt the fish, he never struggled under the pressure I applied.... This tells me this was a monster catfish. No other fish is in these waters. Rumors of a few Sturgeon from 100 years ago still surface from time to time, but I don't know how they fight or even if they could be as big as I imagined this fish. You catfishermen know, cats don't leave, they try to stay on the bottom, for the most part. Dang.... I would love to know what that was
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
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  19. Hurst11

    Hurst11 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    457
    State:
    Oklahoma
    Name:
    Nathan Hurst
    The best knot is the one you have the most confidence in and can tie the best. Never go fishin with any knot that your experimenting with without being 100% sure of it. Always practice a lot with any new knots at the house for a bit. I just pull on the line and find a resistance that feels good and if it needs tightened up during a fight then that’s no prob. Always better to be just a tad too loose than a smidge too tight. You’ll hang into another good en.
     
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  20. mooseman75

    mooseman75 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    725
    State:
    Utah
    Name:
    Justin
    And always remember the fish that gets off is always the biggest fish of the day or your life.....at least that's three story ROFL!!!
     
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