Most effective 'human round' for .38 cal...

Discussion in 'Guns - Blackpowder' started by kyredneck, Aug 19, 2009.

  1. kyredneck

    kyredneck New Member

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    ...i used to know this, but need reminded. There's a particular round that's loaded specifically to not penetrate all the way through the body which results in the body absorbing all the energy of the slug.

    Anyone know this round?

    (I just came into possesion of a nice lil' Taurus SS revolver and need to buy some ammo for it)
     
  2. Catfish_Commando

    Catfish_Commando TF Staff Member

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    7,005
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    In the Army,"Scouts, Rangers, Snipers" etc, they are called RET rounds.

    RET = Rapid Energy Transfer.

    Some may know it as frangible or soft ammunition as better terminology.

    Used primarily to prevent over-penetration.

    A whole section in Sniper school was set aside for this application. Been a while, but it was lumped into terminal ballistics and round stopping power.

    It has never been a consideration of mine for home application. But I am sure you could find something in about any ammo line to fit the flavor.
     

  3. 223reload

    223reload New Member

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    Larry ,I think you're referring to the GLASER safety slug. its a brabd name ,I'm not sure if you can find it in components,but its available in several calibers,as loaded ammo
     
  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck New Member

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    Actually what I'm referring to maywell be an exclusive law enforcement round from back in the .38 cal standard issue days that was designed and loaded with just the right charge for maximum effect. I'm gonna contact (when I get time) a buddy of mine who should know where to find it.
     
  5. madmax-ooohhh

    madmax-ooohhh New Member

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    Generally, most 38 rounds, wether its hollow point or full metal jacket... body shots, is barely adequate to do the "job" as politically correct I can say.

    Of course a shot to the head is a different matter.

    That's why the US Army in the early 1900's contacted Colt and Savage
    to submit a new pistol chambered in 45ACP to replace the weak .38's
    of the period. Well, that became our venerable "Original" Muslim killer.
    (Philippine Insurrection, in 1904 I think)

    The COLT 1911.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2009
  6. Snagged2

    Snagged2 New Member

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    I was thinking the 125 Gr Hollowpoint , in +P loading. in the .38/.357 ctg.
     
  7. Dirtdobber

    Dirtdobber Guest Staff Member

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    158 gr scalloped hollow point ++P. If he is in my house I will know where every one is and I want to make big holes in the perp. Easier to clean up his blood than mine or my family's. Hard wood floors are easy to clean. JMHO
     
  8. NJ CLAD

    NJ CLAD New Member

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    The terms "energy transfer" and "most effective" don't mean the same thing. Any slug that breaks up on impact and doesn't exit will transfer all its energy to the target. If a person has a bullet proof vest and is shot, he absorbs all the energy, but is still in great shape to return fire. Just the same if a bullet hits the sternum or rib, and breaks up penetrating no further, your attacker absorbed all the energy, but will still be able to fully function; a very bad thing. Penetration has to happen to stop your attacker. If the bullet exits, so what. I'd rather push the attackers heart into his spine and have the bullet exit, rather than transfer energy into his sternum and have him continue the attack. I have personally witnessed a Glazer Safety slug stopped by a leather jacket supported by a cedar 1X2: The jacket and wood stopped the slug in its tracks, absorbing all the energy. It wouldn't have killed my chiwawa. Use penetrating ammo like Federal Hydro Shock, Speer Gold Dot, Hornady XTP, or Barnes X bullets. Then you can live to tell the story.
     
  9. Paraguayguy

    Paraguayguy Active Member

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    1,651
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    To heck with pistols. 12 gauge open choke spitting out 00 buckshot. I think each 3 1/2 inch 00 buckshot shell holds around fifteen 33 caliber round balls. My benelli with the 8 shot tube will cut a man in half in less than 3 seconds. :angry:
     
  10. Mr. Foster

    Mr. Foster New Member

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    The Black Talon is very effective.
     
  11. madmax-ooohhh

    madmax-ooohhh New Member

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    Your right NJ CLAD, any penetrating round especially for the .38 special should help. Since that particular round is slightly "weaker" than a 9mm, any help (even slight) will help inflict maximum damage.

    Short of moving up to another caliber like 40sw/10mm or 45acp, not much
    can be done to improve a already "weak" round.. this applies to .380 and other similar "mouse killer rounds"

    Make sure you get head shots with this round.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2009
  12. xringer3

    xringer3 New Member

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    The one that came in first in the ballistic tests and in actual street shootings was the Winchester brand lead 158 grain semi-wadcutter (SWC) holloe point +P loading. That's the one I've been carrying for years, and LUCKILY, still haven't had the opportunity to test it yet!
     
  13. kyredneck

    kyredneck New Member

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    1,021
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    Thank you Vince; that's it! That's the one I was trying to remember (they say the memory is the first thing to go , I don't remember what the second is).

    http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/handgundetail.aspx?symbol=X38SPD&cart=MzggU3BlY2lhbCArLVA=

    Here's an article on that particular round:

    http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/38 Special 158gr LSWCHP.htm

    It still remains a popular SD round; excerpt from the article:

    "Though kinetic energy figures were very commonly used to describe stopping power in the past, it is considered almost sacrilege to do so today. Some continue to go for higher than normal velocities with superbly designed expanding bullets while others go with a lighter recoiling flat solid, but the LSWCHP +P continues to sell and remains a very popular choice.


    Why is this so?

    • My own reasons for sticking with this "old technology" load are several.
    • It has had time to develop a "history." It has been used against human opponents enough to actually see that it "works" more than it "fails."
    • Because it is in the traditional bullet weight, POI is usually quite close to POA in fixed sight revolvers.
    • In the lightweight revolvers, recoil is present to be sure, but it doesn't seem as sharp as with the fast, light-for-caliber bullets. (An example would be Corbon's 110-gr. JHP +P, not DPX.)
    • This load can be found at more places than many of the newest loads, but it too can sometimes be elusive.
    • It performs well in 3 and 4" barrels and allows for a single, reasonably effective load in all my 38-caliber revolvers.
    Where the 158-gr. LSWCHP seems to fall from favor is when it is fired from 2" revolvers through 4-layers of denim before impacting 10% ballistic gelatin."

    As this is a snub nose I have, the Speer 135-gr. Gold Dot "Short Barrel Load" may be the way for me to go according to the article.

    Thanks

    Larry.
     
  14. lookin_4_moby

    lookin_4_moby New Member

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    lol what he said
     
  15. catfish10101

    catfish10101 New Member

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    Des Allemands,
    I knew there was a reason I was naturally drawn to the .45acp when I was looking to buy a new handgun.
    The wadcutter is what most police use.
    Federal Premium Hydra-shocks is what I keep in my .45 acp. Also, the 12 gauge stays loaded with buckshot, so anyone who has the guts to try me, has a snowball's chance in hell if I am home. LOL.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2009
  16. bootshowl

    bootshowl New Member

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    2,288
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    I read that Federal was bringing back the Nyclad HP, that became known as the snub gun load, for it effectiveness, and was taken off the market during the "cop killer bullet" media hype. It had a blue coating, and was soft lead, and made for the snub gun required ballistics. I hope so.
    :roll_eyes:
     
  17. canebreaker

    canebreaker Well-Known Member

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    1,311
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    Southaven,MS
    I found some 99.6% lead. Moulded 52 158 gr swc bullits, Loaded them with 6 grs. of accurate #2. A bit of an over charge for a .38spl. but good in a 357. We keep both guns loaded with a speed loader sitting closeby.
    I aim down, flutterby aims up. Oh dear for whomever.