Missouri Votes to End Hand-Fishing Experiment

Discussion in 'LOCAL MISSOURI TALK' started by GrandpaGoneFishing, Apr 21, 2007.

  1. Mr.T

    Mr.T Active Member

    Messages:
    2,554
    State:
    MO
    "Among other things, scientists found that when adult fish were taken away, leaving their nests of eggs unattended, their eggs died within hours."

    We must have a bunch of rocket scientists working at the MDC.

    Noodling never should have been legal in the first place, whether as an "experiment" or otherwise. Glad to see it's no longer going to be an issue.

    Now if they'd just crack down on the illegal noodlers in Missouri we'd be getting somewhere...
     

  2. jbarnes17

    jbarnes17 New Member

    Messages:
    536
    State:
    Commerce, Oklahoma
    I live over here in Oklahoma where noodling is legal. I'm glad to see Missouri banning it because it is devestating to the catfish spawn. I grew up with alot of people who do noodle and most of them are to greedy and they think they have to empty every hole on the river. It is hard to regulate noodlers because wardens can't cover every mile of the river. I wish Oklahoma would ban noodling.
     
  3. Cuz

    Cuz New Member

    Messages:
    7,241
    State:
    DeSoto, MO
    Agreed. There is some HUGE abuses on the trotline end of the things too. There are guys taking Tens of Thousands of pounds of large cats a year to sell to the lake owners. The fish usually die in a year and they are back out there on the rivers taking fish to the their eventual death on a staggering scale. I realize these can be hot issues. The states better jump on these practices soon or none of us will ever have any catfish to catch. I wish I could have taken photos of the Thousands of pounds of Blue Cats I watched hauled out of the Cannelton Pool in Indiana last week by a Commercial Guy. ( He told me he sold all the fish to lakes.) Sorry for the rant guys. If you had been there with me and saw what I saw, you would probably have the same feeling in your gut that I do. It left a mark on me and I'm in the process of determining what each of our bordering states laws are regarding commercial fishing. From there I will take it to our elected representatives. I have no right to interfere with a commercial fisherman who is operating legally by the laws of the land. However, when i do come across an illegal line, my knife's are always sharp. For what its worth, this guy had 50 fish over 30 pounds. (He was running 50-75 lines at once, each with 50 or more hooks. Each one went from the bank out into the river 100 yards.) I could only imagine how many of the Bros from the BOC would have been tickled to death with just one of those fish and he had 50 or more HOGS. All of them will be dead in a year.
     
  4. jbarnes17

    jbarnes17 New Member

    Messages:
    536
    State:
    Commerce, Oklahoma
    I wish there was something we all could do to put a stop to all this B.S. I know most of us live in different states but I think we all feel the same way about comercial catfishing, noodlign etc.
     
  5. Cuz

    Cuz New Member

    Messages:
    7,241
    State:
    DeSoto, MO
    Sorry guys, my last post was "reedited". I'm sure you can read between the lines regarding "lake owners".
     
  6. tnkatman

    tnkatman New Member

    Messages:
    846
    State:
    Bluff City, TN
    I'm glad to here it. You won't here any pro-active comments from me about noodling and unfortunately it's legal in my home state.
     
  7. SassyManxLady

    SassyManxLady New Member

    Messages:
    101
    State:
    MO
    I do run trotlines. I like to take a weeks vacation and go to the lake and set my trotlines. Some may see this as wrong in their opinions, but I do enjoy trotlining and will continue to do so.
    And if I ever catch anyone cutting my lines, it want be pretty.
    Becky Davis
    Strafford, MO
     
  8. Cuz

    Cuz New Member

    Messages:
    7,241
    State:
    DeSoto, MO
    You bring up a good point Becky. Are you running the lines by the recreational or commercial code? I think there lies quite a bit of difference between someone that is running a handful of lines for recreational purposes, and the person that is running hundreds of lines for resale of the fish to 'lake owners'. Perhaps I should have elaborated a little better on 'trot lines' as I am not totally against the practice. Its an ancient fishing method and in moderation provides enjoyment for several of our members on this board. Is it fair that you and I as recreational fisherman can only have two fishing rods, or run our 'lines' not to exceed 33 hooks when the other guy is running several hundred lines with tens of dozens of hooks? Is it fair that this guy can put upwards of 600 hoop nets in the river during the flathead prespawn? Is it fair that NONE of these fish are being captured to support a need for the public only to pad the pocket of a greedy person that is stealing a precious resource for monetary gain.Is it fair that you and I can harvest five blue cats on a daily creel limit, yet this guy can take several thousand pounds in one day alone? Like I said in my post, we have no right to say anything to a person that is following the laws created by the state. Its another when a person is abusing the laws and hiding behind an ancient wildlife code with no enforcement to place hundred of thousands of dollars a year in their pocket.. I doubt you fall in the latter category Becky.
     
  9. SassyManxLady

    SassyManxLady New Member

    Messages:
    101
    State:
    MO
    John,
    First off, please don’t think I was being hateful or catty. As usual I didn’t think out what I wanted to say first before replying. I was raised on the river and what time I wasn’t on the river, I was in the woods hunting.

    Yes, I do love to fish and if I was truthful, my biggest thrill comes when I reach down into the water, grab my line and feel those ole fish ‘knockin’ back at me.

    I can’t in all honesty say that I have always followed the law to it’s fullest when on the river or lake fishing. I can remember the time when the only way I was able to feed my family is by what I was able to catch on my lines or able to kill out in the woods. I have gone to bed hungry before. Not because I didn’t like what was fixed for supper, but because there was no supper to be had or because I wouldn’t eat, so that my family was able to have some food that night for supper. So yes, I have set more than the legal amount of lines and hooks. Everything that was caught on them lines that year was food for my table. Well everything except that ugly ole gar and I did turn him loose. I killed, deer, turkey, rabbit and squirrel that year as well, out of season, to feed my family.

    The closest I have ever come to wanting to shoot someone was one day on Truman Lake near Warsaw MO. I had been there about 4 days and was really enjoying running my lines. The weekend hit and there was a big bass tournament that day. As I went out early that morning, I was going to one of the coves where I had set one of my lines. I had shut the motor off and was just trolling from one cove to the next. When I got to the mouth of the next cove, I saw two men in a bass boat, they had found my trotline and were in the process of taking two bass off my line and put them into their live well. I then watched them reach down and cut my line from the tree I had it tied to. They turned and saw me, called me terrible names and then sped off. It took me the better part of the whole day to finally find my line and try to bring it in. The death and ruin of the nice flathead’s and blues on that line literally made me sick to my stomach.

    I love to eat fish. I like to have about 300 pounds of processed fish in my freezer every year before winter hits. I do take the catfish legally. Now I must confess my ignorance here. I don’t know if it is even legal in MO to have that much fish in your freezer.

    Having said all of this, I want to say, IF we don’t do something, the day will come, when there will be no fish to take on a fishing trip. Either that or our waters will be polluted that we want be able to eat of the fish we catch. So yes, I do agree, something has to be done.

    Now, I have a question please. A big cat or any fish for that matter can’t survive very long in a pond. Why trap a big cat, haul it to a pond and put it in a pond? IF it lives through the ordeal, it ain’t going to live a year, if that long. What is the attraction to having 30 or 40-pound cats put into your pond? I don’t understand. Anyone who has fished very much knows a big fish of any kind isn’t going to survive in a pond for very long. IF I was going to spend good money to have fish put into any of my ponds (as I do every year), I am going to go to ‘Fish Days’ order my fingerlings and maybe a few bigger ones for breeding stock and have them put into my ponds.
     
  10. cook

    cook New Member

    Messages:
    1,494
    State:
    Plattsburg,Mo.(near K.C.)
    Sassy,I think in Mo. the possesion limit is twice the daily limit.20 channels 10 flats 10 blues (2X) so your 300# may very well be legal,provided they came from those numbers.
     
  11. theonecatfishbob

    theonecatfishbob New Member

    Messages:
    4,100
    State:
    Wright City, Missouri
    Before I would let my family go hungry I would shoot a deer or something out of season. I think the numbers of wildlife taken in this manner are probably pretty small. I do have a problem with people breaking the limits wether it be fishing or hunting. Feeding a family is one thing but greed is quite another. I also do not believe in killing a catfish over 10 pounds. I keep mine 6 or under but that is me. I have never seen a trotliner or jugger turn a big fish loose. That is my problem with trotliners and juggers. They are obeying the laws and limits they should be left alone. My theory on releasing is this. Once a fish is over 10 pounds or so he only has one enemy and that is us. If left to grow he could be the next world record. And if a 10 pound fish lays say 10,000 eggs then how many would a 30 pounder lay? This is not meant to offend anyone. It is just mho
     
  12. Cuz

    Cuz New Member

    Messages:
    7,241
    State:
    DeSoto, MO
    Becky, outstanding post. You make some very good points. I salute you for being a survivor and making use of your god given resources for your own personal enjoyment. A good healthy debate on our precious natural resources is good for us all.

    There are some serious problems facing all of us sportsman thats for sure. If you happened to be a "little" over the creel limit does that make you a criminal? Absolutely not. I'd bet 99 percent of the brothers and sisters on this board have "tweaked" the rules a little bit here n there, even if inadvertantly. Cuz is certainly no exception. :embarassed:

    I'm sure there will be those who will disagree with me, which is fine. We each are entitled to our opinions, and my opinion is no more important than the next sportsmans. Here is where I generally stand with the issues

    1. Do I think trotlines should be banned? Absolutely NOT. I believe they should be strictly regulated and be limited to a person's daily creel limit. (Sounds like you are quite the fisherman, so you wont have any problems filling that freezer every year with the generous daily limit)

    2. Do I think Hoop Nets should be banned? Absolutely NOT. Again, I think they should be strictly regulated and be limited to a person's daily creel limit.

    3. Do I think Gill Nets should be banned. Your darn right I do. These nets while catching the "targeted species", are fatal to the non targeted species as well. These nets are not selective in what they kill. Everyfish dies, even the one's your not after. With trotlines, and hoop nets, you can release the fishes you are not after to the water unharmed.

    I believe, and I would support some sort of a "traditional methods" stamp which would coincide with the above methods of fishing. Lets say for 10 bucks you can get a trotline/hoop stamp added to your fishing license. This money would be allocated to code enforcement, and perpetuation of our three big catfish species. As well, the Missouri Department of Conservation would have a "list" of those that are approved to fish in "traditional manners" so tracking trotline/hoop net activity would not be such a burden. This would be very similiar to adding a doe tag to our deer permits. It seems it would be a very small price to pay to give the MDOC the resources they need to protect our native fishes.

    Finally, regarding these "lake owners". The rules of the BOC are very straightforward on even the mention of these type of fisheries, so I will do my best to tip toe around the gotchas, or else Ken (itch2scratch) will chase me down and chop my fingers off. :big_smile:

    Lets just say they rhyme with "slay lakes". :smile2:

    Am I against "slay lakes" - I have to say NO, not in all cases. Let me clarify.

    To my knowledge, there are two types of slay lakes.
    type 1 - Usually a small, mom n pop owned outfit that specializes in channel cats usually, that are purchased from either the Missouri Department Of Agriculture/Fisheries, or from a few fish farms in Louisianna (the state). These fish are not "wild" fish, and were not harvested from any governmental body of water. They were born in captivity and were raised for the sole purpose for public consumption and/or for stocking of private owners personal ponds. These lakes are usually frequented by families with small children. I have one 1 mile from my house. I think its fair for these type of places to operate and is an OUTSTANDING place to introduce your children to the great sport of fishing, without taking them out on the Big Rivers until they are old enough to understand the dangers.

    type 2 - :angry: Lakes who's sole motivation is "profit taking" by charging trophy fees for the catch of large fish, which includes contest which run into the thousands of dollars. The fish in these bodies of water :)roll_eyes: ) were harvested from governmental/state waters, and were WILD fish. These fish are captured by the previously mentioned methods, and the large fish are dumped into these "lakes". They are usually not fed too much, and are usually caught a half dozen times before they perish. These fish are replenished on a continous basis. The guys with "commercial licenses" are running "hundreds of lines", and 'Hundreds of hoopnets", on a daily basis. In MANY cases, the (dare I say fisherman) that is catching these fish by the 10's of thousands of pounds is the same person that, (coincidentally) also owns the lakes.

    Whats the answer? My Opinion, immediately place a length limit on the BlueCat and Flathead Cat fishes. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 inches. This would immediately protect our biggest fishes, which do the majority of the spawning. This would also allow for the sassymanxlady's of the world to fill their freezers with lots of eater size fishes, and the cuz's of the world lots of big fish to catch, and RELEASE. Either way, WE ALL WIN. The type 2 lakes would gradually go away and our catfisheries will prosper in the long term. I commend the MDC for banning commercial fishing on the Missouri River. I hope to soon see the same thing done on the Mississippi River system. I can tell you, there are a couple dozen (fisherman) out there that are WIPING out are fisheries. They travel long distances, and only fish the pools that have the largest fish. Cannelton Pool, YOU ARE BEING TARGETED NOW. Pickwick/Wilson, they hammered you hard last year. (to the tune of 20,000 pounds worth) The Mississippi from Saint Louis to Cairo has been hammered hard the past 5 years. Folks it takes decades for these fish to reach their maximum potential. A few greedy folks can wipe it all out n just a few short seasons.

    I say IMMMEDIATELY, place a length limit on the 2 big catfish species, including imposing the length limit on the commercial licenses. That way, the legitimate commercial fisherman can keep providing for their families by catching/selling the eater size fish, and the not so legitimate trophy hunters for pay fisherman will fade away into the woodwork.

    Sorry for the long rant. Your opinions are welcomed and encouraged.
     
  13. Rockin' Blues

    Rockin' Blues New Member

    Messages:
    310
    State:
    st.louis mo.
    Cuz,I couldn't agree any more great post:smile2:
     
  14. Grumper

    Grumper New Member

    Messages:
    2,277
    State:
    Crystal City MO
    Just wanted to voice my opinion on the issue, as far as trotlines go, I just ran one this morning, I see nothing wrong with the everyday law abiding fisherman running a trotline,but as far as commercial trotlines and nets, they need to go. You can drive down to the boat ramp where I live, and at all times there are 3-5 trucks there, all belonging to commercial fisherman from Illinois. Half the time you can watch them run their nets, I usually don't get close enough to see what they are pulling out, but I'm sure they are taking too many cats. I talked to my game warden, and he tells me there aren't too many catfish let down here in the river. I told him he was full of it, but then again, with all of the commercial traffic we are having, he might be right to an extent. He says he would like the MDC to put a ban on the Mississippi for commercial fishing, but he said that he didn't know if that would happen. I have been fishing all winter on a regular basis, fishing deep, fishing shallow, and fishing holes that we were pulling a ton of fish out of all last year, and nothing. A couple of bites, on, I don't know how many trips. I guess it just discourages you when you fish 2-3 times a week for 5 months, and you can't even catch a dinker channel. I don't know if the commercial fishing has anything to do with it, but then again the river has been screwed up all year. I guess time will tell.
     
  15. cook

    cook New Member

    Messages:
    1,494
    State:
    Plattsburg,Mo.(near K.C.)
    Well,this thread sure took a turn:lol:

    There is a "slay" lake near my work...hate to see them shut down..why?
    It is a C&R lake...they have many species,but it is a carp lake..very family orientated,people camp out all weekend...no alcohol..playground,cook outs etc..... I'm sure this might be the exception,but they seem to do it right.
     
  16. Cuz

    Cuz New Member

    Messages:
    7,241
    State:
    DeSoto, MO
    Sounds like that would be one of the Type 1's I mention above. :big_smile:
     
  17. turtle1173

    turtle1173 Member

    Messages:
    613
    State:
    Mayfield, KY
    Cuz, that's a great post and I agree completely.

    All I can add is, Cuz, if you promise not to raise taxes, I'll vote for ya!:big_smile:
     
  18. FishMan

    FishMan New Member

    Messages:
    2,293
    State:
    Tennessee
    If the great cat fish could be made a sport fish we can save them. If not it is only a matter of time until we loose them. If this happens we will become the BOC ( Brotherhood of Carpfisherman )

    States need to see how much profit catfishermen can bring them that care for the great fish. This may already be the case but the numbers need to be put together.

    Danny
     
  19. Cuz

    Cuz New Member

    Messages:
    7,241
    State:
    DeSoto, MO
    Read my lips "NO NEW TAXES" :roll_eyes:

    Sound familiar?