Kat's Inquisition:

Discussion in 'The BOC's Animal House' started by kat in the hat, Sep 28, 2008.

  1. kat in the hat

    kat in the hat New Member

    Messages:
    4,875
    State:
    Missouri
    Dr. John, I am starting this thread to serve as a platform for me to ask you random, various questions about animal care. I can see your other thread getting long, and possibly confusing to you. Not that I won't participate in any other thread in this forum, rather, just an attempt on my part to organize a small portion of this arena. I will hence forth post any direct questions towards you here. Some may be just questions. Some may be questions followed by my thoughts, opinions, and/or any speculation on my part. Maybe it will be useful. If not, eh, it's conversation.

    So, this question will deal with animal nutrition. I sell about 10 30# cases of chicken backs a month to a lady who then chops and feeds them to her many dogs. She cites that canines are inherently carnivorous, and raw, unadulterated meat is the most healthy meal they can have.

    I'm not a nutritionist, or an expert to any degree in animal science, but I disagree with her logic for a few reasons. Mainly, it is my belief that canines are omnivorous, not carnivorous. From what I've read, and watched about wild canines, they will hunt and kill mostly herbivores, and routinely eat the contents of there stomach and intestines...which is mostly grass, fat, and blood. They also eat a variety of grasses right off the ground. I'm not saying they don't eat meat, just that they don't eat meat exclusively.

    Also, I don't even know how much comparison can be made between wild dogs, wolves, and domestic dogs in terms of their diet. I just don't believe the whole 'dogs are carnivorous' idea. I also don't believe that the Science Diet that I feed my dog is the best she can have either. I mostly feed her the same thing day in, day out for behavioural reasons, and for sanitation reasons being an inside dog. Her food is also specialized due to potential obesity reasons, and possible food allergies. I like to feed her diet food made with lamb and rice.

    Do you think her diet and logic is correct?

    She has had a relatively high mortality rate in the pups at times, but blames that on the required vaccinations. Do you think that an improper diet, like strictly raw meat, could contribute the the mortality of the pups, if not adult dogs as well?
     
  2. Catpaw

    Catpaw Well-Known Member

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    8,947
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    Name:
    James
    REP'S TO YOU MATT ON STARTING THIS THREAD I HOPE IT STAY'S TRUE TO FORM -AND DOES NOT TURN INTO A BUNCH OF NONSENSE ...THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE ON HERE THAT HAVE REAL QUESTION'S THAT NEED ANSWERED FOR THERE PET'S.
     

  3. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

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    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    Hey Dude, we got us an Inquisition going. Do you prefer the rack or thumb screws? LOL. I like the thought and the purpose of your proposal. I appreciate your input and I don't mean it to sound like some might think. I ain't no expert in things in life. I have an opinion and I will freely give it. Don't mean it is right or wrong. Just an opinion.

    I don't want to turn this into a modified HI. I hate that Shi$. Guys playing pingpong with crooked paddles, never know where the pong will ping. Here nobody is right or wrong even if it can be proven in a supposed court of law. I like back and forth without bloodshed or hurt feelings, and if I sense such happening I will come in and cut you (I don't mean "you" Kat here) off at the knees, right at the patellar ligament insertion.

    There are no professors here. No backgrounds are better or worse than others. Talk like you were around a campfire and not drunk. Look at the stars when you speak and speak like you speak to your Mother.

    Yes Mr Kat. I like your proposal. I will come back tomorrow and offer you my opinion. I would hope others render theirs too.

    John.
     
  4. 223reload

    223reload New Member

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    Matt,I have trapped coyotes in the past, and I know at least they are omnivirus,Just like raccons,They will eat anything that will" build a turd " so to speak. I have often wondered of the DONT FEED YOUR DOG TABLE FOOD logic. I can see the dangers of the processed foods tho.
     
  5. catfish kenny

    catfish kenny New Member

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    6,064
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    I have to question the table scrapps too....we had several dogs over the years and all of them ate left overs and all of them seemed prety darn healthey to my recolection.....my dogs now are fed purinia in the green bag they are in exelent health acorrding to the other vet we have......like humans diffrent dogs are giong to have different problems too.......KITH I dont freakin know myself .....We dont feed our dogs people food because behaviors and kids I will chalk that upto the breed and responsibilitey....LOVE OF OUR ANIMALS.......right now my kids can take anything from my dogs and they will not even begin to flinch....my female will even let them hold her pupps when there hours old.....Id like to think that it has lot to do with TLC....They are vicious Pit bulls after all(LOL)Ofcourse I woulndt reccomend you messing with them pups or takin no food out there jaws but its ok fer my kids...:cool2:
     
  6. Plowboy411

    Plowboy411 New Member

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    918
    State:
    Georgia
    one thing we just found out the hard way.
    do not let your dog eat BBQ.
    it will cause bloody stool/runnys.:crazy:
    we almost lost out red nose because I give him two BBQ sandwiches.
    I'LL never do that again.:sad2:
     
  7. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

    Messages:
    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    You are what you eat or you could be what you should eat.

    What applies to us applies to companion animals. They can't vote and they make no decisions, we do it for them

    Animals today are fed obviously out of necessity, (or they will die) and it usually is done in the most convenient and economical way possible. That most usually is dry food manufactured by rendering, cooking, extruded and dried then sprayed with a variety of palatable fats. With most of these dry foods unless that fat is sprayed on there most animals would turn their nose up at the food and walk by it. Little Anthony eats it because the sprayed fat tastes good. That's why those bags of dry dog food smell so good when you open them up. That's where the pet food manufacturer hooks ya.

    Matt's client who feeds so much chicken backs is surely on the right track (If) and that is a big (If) she formulates other things in the diet. Take Richard's reference to coyotes. If you have ever seriously hunted or trapped as I have at one time you go about your business looking for (sign) of what ya what to kill. One of the signs you look for is scat (feces, droppings) Tells ya what passed through, often when and what they were feeding on if you look closely. If you are after canivores (meat eaters) you often will see more hair and undigested parts than anything that was just meat. Animals don't have a carving knife or fillet knife and seperate the meat from the rest. They only have their mouth with a highly developed set of kitchen tools built in. Some times I have found kills of whatever and the only thing eaten is the gut or the abdomen. That animal that did the killing was lacking something, something he needed at that time from the gut and nature took its course.

    Now to the nitty-gritty. Yes I advocate table foods or all out home prepared meals for your pets. Again, like everything in the world nowadays when you count on someone else doing something for you, you are going to get burnt somewhere. Look at the most recent spate of contaminated food products, milk, dog foods etc. And that is just the tip if the iceberg. However, some factors for you to consider. Remember that dog or cat can't vote or tell you what is best for him. So if you are a rural hoemowner you have acess to different things and probably eat differently that a city dweller. If you are Boheme, or Italian or Mexican your household traditionally eats entirely different than others, consequently your tablescraps will be entirely different. If you are coastal your diet may be entirely different than somebody who lives in the mountains. If you are a vegetarian your tablescraps may be more fit for chickens than carnivores or omivores. If you are Conservative or Liberal your diets are entirely different. Some religions eat entirely different than others. So here is where you have to do some research. There are numerous books available on concocting animal diets and the internet is rife with them. Find one to match your politics or religion and that contains what Fido needs and go for it.

    Other stuff later, enough for now.

    John.
     
  8. BIG GEORGE

    BIG GEORGE New Member

    Messages:
    10,362
    State:
    JOISY
    Speakin of "SCAT" to identify the animal.

    It has been recomended that folks hikein in areas inhabited by bears carry pepper spray and whistles to frighten bears away if an encounter is made.

    Also you should become familiar with what to look for in feces so you know what types of bears are in the area. For example. Feces that has alot of berries in it would belong to a brown bear. A grizzlies waste will have whistles in it and smell like pepper spray. :crazy:
     
  9. Ghosth

    Ghosth New Member

    Messages:
    241
    State:
    North Dakota
    I'd like to add one thing to postbeetles comments.

    Our pets do not have the same levels of self control we do.
    Its like feeding kids on cookies & watermelon. Yeah, they'll eat it, and love it. Once in a while is ok for a treat. But not as a daily diet.

    So feed them a balanced diet that contains all the nutrients they need. Most people don't want to take the time to do that figureing themselves. So they buy food off the shelf.

    Take the time to seriously compare apples to apples.
    Total fat content, protein, etc.

    Ohh and postbeetle, love the atttitude. :) Rock on dude
     
  10. lance

    lance New Member

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    2,658
    State:
    kentucky
    Great thread ! We had to give up a pair of dogs when our 3rd child was born . I had 3 in DIAPERS at the same time and couldn't wash 8 extra feet every night . My father in law took them and they are truely happy farm dogs the run 35 + acres and eat store food And you guessed it table scraps ! That includes tom. ,corn,peas, and various other veggies and love it . Still haven't been able to get them dogs to eat there beets yet tho !
     
  11. kat in the hat

    kat in the hat New Member

    Messages:
    4,875
    State:
    Missouri
    John, I appreciate, respect, and enjoy your opinions on a variety of subjects. I am super glad that you have carved out this very useful niche for us to share, and ask questions about our beloved animal friends.

    I have always been a fan of the iron maiden. You don't have to watch the torture that way. I'm kinda squeemish when it comes to torture.

    Thanks for your input on the question that I presented. It's not like I am going to feed my dog raw chicken, or table scraps, etc. Just curious as to your take on the situation. Every time I send all that chicken out the door, I gotta stop and think it might not be all that good for the dogs. It wouldn't even matter to me if I didn't have to listen to her go on and on about how everybody should feed their dogs that way. Not me. I wouldn't want to be the one to clean up that mess.
     
  12. Kat-tamer

    Kat-tamer New Member

    Messages:
    875
    State:
    Missouri
    We got 2 dogs in this house. Mine & Matt's is on the diet that he described already. The other one, belongs to the room-mate, he is on a cheaper dog food.

    Now here's a couple of differences between 2 different dry dog foods from my point of view.

    Both dogs are the same breed, but about 20lbs. difference in weight and size, plus the male/female difference. Now the female (ours) rarely has gas that will run you out of the house, but that male......:eek:oooh:. That will bring tears to your eyes. Plus, if one of them has an accident in the house, you can tell right away, by wether or not the whole house reiks or not, which one done it!

    The other observation I've made, trash digging. I've often wondered if it's just training or if the male is missing something in his diet that causes him to eat anything out of the trash cans. My female rarely gets into the trash, but the male does it on a regular basis.

    Now don't think that I believe my dog is an angel. She has other bad habbits. Main bad habbit she has with food is begging for table scraps. At least if the male is told to go away, he goes away. My female, will stare at you until your plate is empty. You would think that after years of getting no scraps she would give up!:confused2: She also vacumes the floors. Especially in the kitchen. I aint got a very big kitchen, so her sitting there just waiting to see if we are gonna drop something gets old real fast!!!:smile2:

    Ok, so all I'm really saying is that if your gonna feed only dry food, and your dog is gassy or in the trash all the time...try getting a better quality dry food. Might cost ya some cash, but if you got a house dog...it's worth it!
     
  13. oh no

    oh no New Member

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    11,108
    State:
    Indiana
    My big dumb dog Bo will get into the calf pellets out in the barn. When he does, I can tell, because he would clean out a Pentecostal Church with his farts.

    His farts are bad when he gets into the cow food. Don't know why.

    I do give him table scraps. And he eats the same as me when we are camping. He loves McDonalds double cheese burgers. lol
     
  14. kat in the hat

    kat in the hat New Member

    Messages:
    4,875
    State:
    Missouri
    Dr. John, what is the largest living thing in the world?
     
  15. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

    Messages:
    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    That's an easy one Matt.................

    My first wife's Mother.

    Nah, just kidding. Besides she's dead now. You want living. And you want thing. You didn't say animal. I ain't gonna cheat and look this up, so will tell you what I think and you correct me with the right answer.

    If you had asked animal I would have said whale, which species I don't know.

    Since you asked for thing and because I know you like mushrooms I will say I remember an article in some science magazine of the discovery of an organism, an underground mushroom if you will that has been traced in the soil to cover an extremely large area of land. The particulars I don't remember, only they know it is the same critter from genetic studies. It's mycelia extend for an unimaginable distance for a single creature.
     
  16. baitchunker

    baitchunker New Member

    Messages:
    1,689
    State:
    alabama
    just figured i would make an appearance.


    matt,

    when i was a kid, "pa-pa" got an old yard dog and brought it home to help keep birds out of his garden. one day i was over at his house busting wood, and washing cars when i noticed that the dog food bowl was full of left over collard greens. i asked him how he got his dog to eat collard greens and he told me... "it wasnt easy, but after the first 3 days he just sort of figured it out."
     
  17. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

    Messages:
    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    Grab the suspenders on your bibs Kat, puff out your chest and put a smile on your face.

    You got a compliment this AM from an unimaginable source. My wife Nancy has read these threads since she came home from Chicago last night. She rarely reads stuff on this forum and even more rarely comments.

    Her comments about your posts and the intelligence of them impressed her and she said so. She wanted to comment on your post about hitting dogs over in the other section, but I told her to go to work at 6 o'clock so I would have beer money.

    Also I see the JD has found ya. Man he's at work early. He must need beer money to. LOL. I didn't think his kid would be drinking yet.

    John.
     
  18. oh no

    oh no New Member

    Messages:
    11,108
    State:
    Indiana
  19. baitchunker

    baitchunker New Member

    Messages:
    1,689
    State:
    alabama
    36,000 sexes!!!???


    i dont know about a "fun guy" but i bet he was a happy one.
     
  20. kat in the hat

    kat in the hat New Member

    Messages:
    4,875
    State:
    Missouri
    WooHoo! JD is in the house! You beat me to the punch about the 36,000 sexes, but the "fun guy" pun...:smile2::smile2::smile2:

    Thanks oh no for an informative link!

    John, tell Nancy thanks for the compliment for me, will ya? That subject was just on my mind 'cause I had just talked to my mother. People tend to think they need to discipline their dogs with a news paper, a spray bottle, or, god forbid...their hand. I propose that none of that is necessary, and is actually counter-productive.

    So, how many bones does a rooster have in it's neck? :confused2: