Jug and trot lines on Missouri Rivers

Discussion in 'MISSOURI LAKES / RESERVOIRS TALK' started by Burwell40, Apr 23, 2006.

  1. Burwell40

    Burwell40 New Member

    Messages:
    247
    State:
    Iowa
    I realize that jug fishing is legal in MO, but I was shocked by the number of jugs I saw on Truman and LOZ. You could hardly get a boat around some spots. I reckon there are juggers and limb liners, etc who come on this board also, but you guys might want to consider that you could well be destroying one of the most productive fisheries I've ever seen. Those big blues and flatheads are a state, even national, treasure. If you guys don't lobby to protect them, your grandkids might never experience the thrill of reeling in one of those hogs.

    I must admit that I'm a little prejudiced against the whole concept of set lines of any sort. I mean, it's not like this is a great depression and guys need to feed there families with a 50 year old fish. Anyway, as a neighbor to the north, I love your state...it's lakes and its fish. I hope something can be done to protect the big fish for all of us and our kids.
     
  2. Mr.T

    Mr.T New Member

    Messages:
    2,553
    State:
    MO
    Seems odd, doesn't it, to see that many jugs and trotlines set when the daily limit is now 5 blue cats.

    If everyone was a fine upstanding citizen, I'm sure it'd be no problem. But I know there's a bunch of good ole' boys out there who could care less what the limit is. And they're the ones who will ruin the fishery.
     

  3. jtrew

    jtrew New Member

    Messages:
    4,404
    State:
    Little Rock, AR
    On some waters here in Arkansas, you are only allowed to use a single, barbless hook; and only artificials are allowed; and it's strictly catch and release. That would be really great for catfishing, wouldn't it? While I recognize and defend anybody's right to have their own opinions, as soon as they begin to feel that their opinions are the only ones that are 'right', they have become bigots. Every fisherman has the right to catch and keep all the fish allowed under the law, using any method allowed under the law. Or, they can release them if they wish, and the law allows. Notice that I specified that all these things must be done legally. Often, where trotlines are legal, snaglines aren't; limits are there for a reason. If violators don't have to pay much of a penalty, there's no incentive to obey the law. If someone has good reason to believe that fish & game laws are being broken, they have the same obligation to report it, AND see that the report is acted on, as they would if they saw a bank robbery taking place.
     
  4. flathunter

    flathunter New Member

    Messages:
    5,723
    State:
    Ohio
    I agree, we must protect our catfish.
     
  5. Bigmagic

    Bigmagic New Member

    Messages:
    382
    State:
    Edwards Missouri
    Mike I wish they would put a season on trotlines and juglines. I especially don't like to see them during the spawn they take way too many cats out of the lake. I can show you a point where people dump the cleaned remains of large cats from trotline fishing and no one needs to take that many. I do believe that even with trotlines 90% of the fish are taken by 10% of the fisherman.
    How did your trip with Steve go?
     
  6. wayne7009

    wayne7009 New Member

    Messages:
    40
    State:
    miller missouri
    there will allways be plenty of fish no need to worry about it really if god sees the need for more fish there will be more fish thats what there there for to eat and have fun but what do i know !!!!!!!!!!
     
  7. Catmaster

    Catmaster New Member

    Messages:
    391
    State:
    SE Kansas
    I also noticed that last summer when I went there. It was kind of amazing to see all of those lines.

    I personaly dont mind setting lines but I am also the kind of person who likes running a trot or limb line i think it is fun. Dont get me wrong I love hooken hogs on rod and reel too.
     
  8. Bigmagic

    Bigmagic New Member

    Messages:
    382
    State:
    Edwards Missouri
    #1 Jess your statement that there are 30 times more rod n reel fisherman than Trotlines is BS. There are not that many Rod n Reel Catfisherman. No rod n reel fisherman stakes out a piece of the Lake and keeps it all year to himself. As for knowing those carcasses came off a trotline I do know and I know the people who caught them. No rod n reel fisherman leaves 33 hooks in the water year round baited or non baited killing everything from spoonbill to Catfish.

    A knowledgeble trotliner can take out thousands of pounds of catfish in a couple of weeks show me a rod n reel fisherman that can do that. What rod n reel fisherman puts 30 jugs in the water and spends the next four hours harvesting cats? I doubt you know one trotliner that throws anything back but a dink. How many times have you came upon a dead Spoonbill or Catfish on a rod n reel that someone left in the water? You wanna know how many dead cats I've found on limb lines or how many limb lines are still hanging in the lake from last year? Running a trotline is more akin to trapping than fishing and there are seasons on trapping. You may not be concerned about the number of Large Cats in the lake but I am. I'm out there almost everyday. I've fished in this lake since the fifties and you or no one else can tell me that all the rod n reel fisherman combined fishing for cats catches one tenth of what the trotliners do. You also cannot tell me there are as many large cats as in the past the MDC will tell you different. Most of the "rod n reel" catfisherman are bank fisherman that fish all night for one or two fish. The number of successful rod n reel fisherman for cats is growing but it ain't anywhere near what the number of successful trotliners are. I can show you ten trotlines in a 1/4 mile stretch that have been there thruout snagging season. Lets see 33 hooks a line fishing 24 hours a day gee that equals about 300 rod n reel fisherman fishing 24hrs a day. I know the guys that have those lines and they are great at it. So go ahead and quote me and disagree but get your facts straight and realize that if we do nothing the resource will disappear. Its happened other places.
     
  9. jholman

    jholman New Member

    Messages:
    85
    State:
    Columbus Mississippi
    I agree with wolfman I have never seen a r&r with a concience. no matter what method you choose to fish with, you are your own judge and jury. At the end of the day no state has the ability to police every fisherman every minute of every day and night. if the fishery stays viable it is due to the fisherman/SPORTSMAN involved.
     
  10. Bigmagic

    Bigmagic New Member

    Messages:
    382
    State:
    Edwards Missouri
    #1 Jess your statement that there are 30 times more rod n reel fisherman than Trotlines is BS. There are not that many Rod n Reel Catfisherman. No rod n reel fisherman stakes out a piece of the Lake and keeps it all year to himself. As for knowing those carcasses came off a trotline I do know and I know the people who caught it. No rod n reel fisherman leaves 33 hooks in the water year round baited or non baited killing everything from spoonbill to Catfish.

    A knowledgeble trotliner can take out thousands of pounds of catfish in a couple of weeks show me a rod n reel fisherman that can do that. What rod n reel fisherman puts 30 jugs in the water and spends the next four hours harvesting cats? I doubt you know one trotliner that throws anything back but a dink. How many times have you came upon a dead Spoonbill or Catfish on a rod n reel that someone left in the water? You wanna know how many dead cats I've found on limb lines or how many limb lines are still hanging in the lake from last year? Running a trotline is more akin to trapping than fishing and there are season on trapping. You may not be concerned about the number of Large Cats in the lake but I am. I'm out there almost everyday. I've fished in this lake since the fifties and you or no one else can tell me that all the rod n reel fisherman combined fishing for cats catches one tenth of what the trotliners do. You also cannot tell me there are as many large cats as in the past the MDC will tell you different. Most of the "rod n reel" catfisherman are bank fisherman that fish all night for one or two fish. The number of successful rod n reel fisherman for cats is growing but it ain't anywhere near what the number of successful trotliners are. I can show you ten trotlines in a 1/4 mile stretch that have been there thruout snagging season. Lets see 33 hooks a line fishing 24 hours a day gee that equals about 300 rod n reel fisherman fishing 24hrs a day. I know the guys that have those lines and they are great at it. So go ahead and quote me and disagree but get your facts straight and realize that if we do nothing the resource will disappear. Its happened other places.
     
  11. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    Well, I would just say if you buy your license your entitled to whatever the law allows, and it don't matter if you do it juggin', trotlining or via rod and reel. You know what fellas, it just don't matter in the grand scheme of things. I am a trotliner. I also run jug lines, and I also fish with rod and reel... but I bet you I don't keep 10 fish a year... and none for my personal use. I spend just as much money on gasoline, oil and bait as you do...I pay my taxes, I buy my permits and license... so as far as I am concerned, you can have your opinion - just don't try to force it on me as I'm not buying. I have issues with people who hunt, I also have issues with noodlers, and people who snag spoonbills... but that's their right. I just don't grab my bible and jump on a stump to preach my relegion. It is their right... it is my right. So, I'll try to keep my nose on my face and not put it elsewhere.
     
  12. jtrew

    jtrew New Member

    Messages:
    4,404
    State:
    Little Rock, AR
    Again, unless you're talking about commercial catfishermen, trotliners and juggers are NOT legally taking thousands of pounds of fish a week. If we're simply putting out BS, how about this. A trotline may have 33 hooks and get checked once a day; maximum number of fish brought into the boat is 33. During that same period, a rod & reel fisherman can make hundreds of casts, bringing a fish into the boat on each cast. So, according to those figures, it's rod & reel fishermen catching all the fish. Of course, that's nothing but BS. And anyone who has reason to believe that anyone keeping more than the legal limit of fish, yet doesn't report it, then bitches about it is definitely a hypocrite. By not reporting the violation, they have become an accessory, both morally and legally.
     
  13. Bigmagic

    Bigmagic New Member

    Messages:
    382
    State:
    Edwards Missouri
    Lawrence you may think I'm anti trotline I'm not, my father n law and I ran lines for many years untill he was unable to do so anymore. I ran them with my dad as a kid and with my brothers growing up. I would venture to say that we were about as successful at it as its possible to be, but I am more than a little tired of finding dead fish that pulled a line up or limb lines full of dead channel cats. I don't even fish for channels and it sickens me. In all the years I ran trotlines with my family we only had them in the water maybe two weeks out of the year and a couple of weekends. I see lines in LOZ that have been in for years. One guys line is made of steel cable and if your boat hits one of his jugs its your tough luck. If rod n reel fisherman need to not fish during the spawn fine make it no catfishing during the month of June. As long as I find dead fish in the Lake and lines left in the lake unbaited with the hooks on killing fish I'll call em as I see em.

    Show me a rod n reel fisherman with 3 freezers full of large cats. A few years back a trotliner I was purchasing a vehicle from led me to his shed where there were three large chest freezers full of catfish. He wanted to give me 55lbs to take home with me. There are some expert trotliners out there just as expert as the best catfish guide. Yes everyone has a right to fish in whatever manner is legal and I'm not totally against trotlining or jugging or even limb lining.

    Funny the MDC didn't hesitate to impose restrictions on the rod n reel fisherman when they thought they were catching too many big cats below the dam. Its time to fix the problem the MDC is hoping the new limits solve the problem it will among the law abiders but those that skirt the law will still skirt the law. If we stopped catfishing during the spawn that would help. Most trotliners do not leave their line in more than a weekend or a couple of weeks but a lot do (on LOZ anyway). One morning two years ago I was fishing near the mouth of a creek where a trotline had been set for a couple of weeks I was there when the guy ran the line and pulled up a number of dead fish. Turns out he had been back in KC during the week and left his line in. Enforcement is near impossible for the MDC. I think we have a total of about 13 agents in this area and they would have to spend all their time lifting and checking lines.

    A reasonable season would make more sense. Why does that threaten trotliners? How many of you have a line in past October anyway? Do you deny that these problems exist? Should we just ignore them and hope they go away? This isn't my ethics being forced on anyone its common sense.

    Everyone is aware of the abuse(I thought so now I wonder). I would very much welcome more trotliners to discuss this topic. I am perfectly agreeable to a rod n reel season if needed. I wonder how many people have encountered a dead fish on a limb line or an abandoned trotline. Am I the only one?

    Does a brother ignore the problems of the family?
     
  14. jtrew

    jtrew New Member

    Messages:
    4,404
    State:
    Little Rock, AR
    I've seen rod & reel fishermen give away 55# of freshly caught catfish just so they could keep fishing. Turning them loose didn't seem to be an option for them. I've seen even more rod & reel fishermen carry out a limit of catfish so heavy they had to make two trips, then be back fishing in less than an hour.
     
  15. Bigmagic

    Bigmagic New Member

    Messages:
    382
    State:
    Edwards Missouri
    And if they deny a problem they know exists they are a hypocrite as well.
     
  16. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    Well, your post got me to thinking and I remembered I was going to e-mail our state warden about a few illegal jug and trotlines I have been running across (I guess I should say I have been seeing, as I am not going to run someone elses lines - good way to get extra holes in the body). I am just as positive as you can be that these lines are illegal, not being maintained as the law requires. So, I just emailed our state offices reporting my beliefs. Guess I went ahead and stuck my nose in other peoples business after all... I don't want much, just a perfect world. You know, it's just a personal thing...I love fishing...it don't matter wether I catch any or not...I like setting out in the heat, swatting mosquito's, muddy britches legs on cold mornings...I just love it. I would think if I would catch another 40+ lb catfish in my lifetime I'd be fortunate... there are not that many large fish in central Oklahoma... yeah, I know there is some... but it's not like in the Mississippi, or the Ohio, or the James or hundreds of others... they are just not here... but I'm gonna keep on fishing... and I'll keep right on putting just about everything I catch right back in the water. That's how much I love it.
     
  17. jtrew

    jtrew New Member

    Messages:
    4,404
    State:
    Little Rock, AR
    I've seen rod & reel fishermen give away 55# of freshly caught catfish just so they could keep fishing. Turning them loose didn't seem to be an option for them. I've seen even more rod & reel fishermen carry out a limit of catfish so heavy they had to make two trips, then be back fishing in less than an hour. It's not the method of fishing; it's fish hogs. To be fair, it's often lack of education on the subject. Most of us older folks were raised to believe that if you caught it, you kept it. Some 12 or 15 years back, Bill Dance had a show where he was jugfishing off a party barge. It showed him releasing a 30# or 40# flathead. He seemed like an idiot to me at that time. Since then, I've learned about releasing fish today so I'll be able to catch fish tomorrow.
     
  18. Bigmagic

    Bigmagic New Member

    Messages:
    382
    State:
    Edwards Missouri
    I have given away many catfish Jerry and it wasn't to keep fishing. Some folks don't get to fish but like to eat them. I also donate to the volunteer fire department fish fry. I have seen rod n reel fisherman doing just as dispecable things as the one you mention but what does that have to do with the problem? This isn't rod n reel fisherman against trotliners do you honestly deny that every year lines are left in killing fish many more fish than almost any other source? I invite you to LOZ in July the heart of the vacation season we can get up in the morning and go remove dead channel cats from the limb lines on Monday after just about any weekend. If you stay a month we can monitor trotlines that aren't run the entire week but just on weekends. You say to not report illegal activity is hypocritical than come to LOZ and report. I have reported trotline abuse nothing happens. If I have a discussion with a group of local trotliners I can't report their comments as fact its hearsay. I am not an enforcement officer but I do care about the fishing here. As a former trotliner I know what the problem is and no we were not leaving our lines in and killing fish, but we saw plenty of it. We saw unmarked lines and reported them. I challenge anyone to honestly say these problems don't exist. Come to LOZ and see for yourself. I am on the water almost daily April thru October when I'm able. Propose a solution instead of hurling barbs at rod n reel fisherman. Clean up your act trotliners!
     
  19. wayne7009

    wayne7009 New Member

    Messages:
    40
    State:
    miller missouri
    geez how old are you guys ur all acting like its the end of the world or somthing get over it and catch some fish dont be greedy. be happy u get the chance to even fish and hunt its just a fish
     
  20. fraid_knot

    fraid_knot Guest

    Lets ban those ariel water drops on forest fires. Who knows how many fish are scooped up just to be dumped onna fire somewhere. :p



    Bob,
    Heading out to a forest fire fish fry........