Important Question for Dr. John DVM:

Discussion in 'The BOC's Animal House' started by kat in the hat, Jan 14, 2009.

  1. kat in the hat

    kat in the hat New Member

    Messages:
    4,875
    State:
    Missouri
    John, I recieved this in an email from my sister. At first, I thought I would just email it to you. BUT...I decided that IF this is a credible situation, this is valuable information for other dog owners. I don't feed my dog human food, but she does find plenty fo it on her own, as the whole household is not necessarily on the same page all the time, and she is quick to nab anything that falls to the floor.

    So, here it is.


    ---Subject: Fwd: Fw: Do you own a DOG?


    If you have a dog ... PLEASE read
    this and send it on. If you don't

    have
    a dog, please pass along
    to friends who do.


    Written by:

    Laurinda Morris, DVM
    Danville Veterinary Clinic
    Danville , OH


    This week I had the first case in history of

    raisin toxicity ever seen at MedVet. My

    patient was a 56-pound, 5 yr old male

    neutered lab mix that ate half a canister of

    raisins sometime between 7:30 AM and 4:30

    PM on Tuesday. He started with vomiting,

    diarrhea and shaking about 1AM on

    Wednesday
    but the owner didn't call my
    emergency service until
    7AM.

    I had heard somewhere about raisins AND

    grapes causing acute Renal failure but

    hadn't seen any formal paper on the
    subject.
    We had her bring the dog in immediately.
    In the meantime, I called the ER service at

    MedVet, and the doctor there was like me -

    had heard something about it, but .
    Anyway, we contacted the ASPCA National
    Animal Poison Control Center and
    they said
    to
    give IV fluids at 1 & 1/2 times maintenance
    and watch the kidney values for the next

    48-72 hours.

    The dog's BUN (blood urea nitrogen level)

    was already at 32 (normal less than 27) and

    creatinine over 5 (1.9 is the high end of

    normal). Both are monitors of kidney

    function in the bloodstream. We placed an

    IV catheter and started the fluids.

    Rechecked the renal values at 5 PM and the

    BUN was over 40 and creatinine over 7 with

    no urine production after a liter of fluids. At

    the point I felt the dog was in acute renal

    failure and sent him on to MedVet for a

    urinary catheter to monitor urine output

    overnight as well as overnight care.

    He started vomiting again overnight at

    MedVet and his renal values have

    continued to increase daily. He produced

    urine when given lasix as a diuretic. He was

    on 3 different anti-vomiting medications and

    they still couldn't control his vomiting. Today

    his u rine output decreased again, his BUN

    was over 120, his creatinine was at 10, his

    phosphorus was very elevated and his blood

    pressure, which had been staying around

    150, skyrocketed to 220 ... He continued to

    vomit and the owners elected to
    Euthanize.

    This is a very sad case - great dog, great

    owners who had no idea raisins could be a

    toxin. Please alert everyone you know who

    has a dog of this very serious risk.


    Poison control said as few as 7 raisins or

    grapes could be toxic. Many people I know

    give their dogs grapes or raisins as treats

    including our ex-handler's. Any exposure

    should give rise to immediate concern.


    Onions, chocolate, cocoa and macadamia

    nuts can be fatal, too.


    Even if you don't have a dog, you might

    have friends who do. This is worth passing

    on to them.
     
  2. Netmanjack

    Netmanjack New Member

    Messages:
    3,734
    State:
    Ohio
    Who'd a thunk it. This is my animals Vet! lol Very nice lady.:wink:
     

  3. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

    Messages:
    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    Yepper it is an unsafe world out there for man and beast.

    Now how am I gonna get rid of that extra rum and raisin cake I got for Christmas?

    Better check Grandmas fruitcake and count the raisins per square inch before I give it to Fido.

    Mr Matt, aka Kat in the Hat. I Love the question. Gives me an excellent opportunity to be myself. ('Ol Flippin' Flippant John the Boheme Vet.)

    I look at it this way Matt. A little knowledge is helpful, a lot of knowledge makes one dangerous and arrogant. If we were to take the time to become aware of all the things in the world that would or could kill us or our substitutes for a normal relationship, called our pets, we wouldn't venture more than 3 feet from out straitjackets.

    Take cars for instance. Did you know your car can kill you? And did you know that cars kill more dogs in a years time than all the vineyards in the US of A? I think we should ban cars along with grapes.

    Did you know that guns can kill ya? Guns also account for a lot of dog deaths in the US of A in a years time. Ask some folks who have a neighbors dog that tears up their yard and how they solved that problem. I think we should ban guns for the safety of our pets along with raisins.

    And did you know that the biggest killer of dogs in the entire world, including Muslims and Chinese, is us, the bipedal creation of somebody.

    Why is that 'Ol John. Because we anthromorphosize our pets. If it is good for us it is twice as good for Fido, because Fido is twice as good as any human any day of the week. I haven't seen too many feral dogs, or coyotes or foxes climbing some vine or tree to deliberately eat grapes, or chocolate or acadamia nuts. Those critters that did, if they did, are long dead and weeded out of the system.

    In a nutshell, (don't give those to dogs either) become aware of what it is that dogs eat naturally and not what some advertizing agency wants to sell ya because they know you "love" your pet and can make money off ya.

    If you are losing sleep over this folks here are two references to ponder.

    http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/hazards.htm

    http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/grapesandraisin.htm
     
  4. Netmanjack

    Netmanjack New Member

    Messages:
    3,734
    State:
    Ohio
    Thanks for the links John. After my dog and I perused the list of death I ask him what he thought. He just sat there with a goofy kind of smile on his face steadily repeating this mantra. Horse poop wasn't on it, horse poop wasn't on it!..........:eek:oooh:
     
  5. Netmanjack

    Netmanjack New Member

    Messages:
    3,734
    State:
    Ohio
    As long as your in the office Doc, let me run this past you. My cats breath could knock a buzzard off a gut wagon!. I searched and found the cause,but cant afford the cure.:embarassed: Are their any home remedy's?:cool2:
     
  6. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

    Messages:
    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    Ah, a veritable plethora of intriguing questions from lay persons. I use that term as it is supposed to be used in this context. If George (BG) shows up he will perversafiy that term "lay".

    Jack, cat periodontitis (inflammation and infection around the teeth) the term used in the context you describe as your cats problem. Very common, very aggravating and can be expensive to clear up. Esp. when you get into antibiotics and dental scaling, not to mention those expensive office call fees.

    As in all things in nature there can be other things that can cause the "smell" you note. But for simplicity we are going to diagnose simple periodontitis here. Here is a very good link you should read if you have not already.

    http://www.petplace.com/cats/periodontitis/page1.aspx

    In addition to all they say here, short of paying all that money to the Vet, let me add a couple. These are bacterial infections of certain kinds of bugs in the plaque (that greasy kind of scum you feel before you brush your teeth). Get rid of the plaque and you get rid of the bugs and you get rid of the "smell".

    Hard foods instead of canned or a combination of both, shoot a bird outside the window and let the cat chew on it, rubbing the gums with a peroxide soaked cloth or Q-tip in addition to what they say in that link.

    John.
     
  7. Netmanjack

    Netmanjack New Member

    Messages:
    3,734
    State:
    Ohio
    Thanks John. He has inflamed gums, but his teeth are strong. I give him hard food, but I know his teeth bothers him as he pukes up whole kibble. I soften his food every three or four days to keep his weight up. He is a solid 16 pounds. is there anything to the drops I have seen that you add to their drinking water? I will try the peroxide and teeth brushing. Is there a safe way to knock him out? I cant hold a brush with thick leather welding gloves on.:eek:oooh:
     
  8. Catgirl

    Catgirl New Member

    Messages:
    13,546
    Get the NET Jack! :wink: Perhaps you could securely position a big dip net somewhere. Stick his legs through that, so he can't get 'em out. Get your wife to help you.....one of ya hold the cat's mouth open, and the other do the brushing/wiping. (Bear in mind, I've never tried this :smile2:.)
     
  9. kat in the hat

    kat in the hat New Member

    Messages:
    4,875
    State:
    Missouri
    Cats...I usually shoot them behind the ear with a .22 short before I brush their teeth. :smile2: KIDDING! I don't brush their teeth! :eek:oooh: Kidding about the shooting part too. :embarassed: *Putting foot in mouth...walking away.*
     
  10. Netmanjack

    Netmanjack New Member

    Messages:
    3,734
    State:
    Ohio
    I may go get some liquid courage and do it bare handed! Now there's a thought. Can you get a cat drunk enough to pass out?
     
  11. Jerry60k

    Jerry60k New Member

    Messages:
    881
    State:
    Chelyan, West V
    Back in my mean days of youth I can attest to the fact a couple pin pricks with an Anbesol coated stickpin will sedate a cat very well.(Its not as bad a story as you might think)

    Now let me also say our family tomcat was the single toughest animal ever poor guy :wink:
     
  12. postbeetle

    postbeetle New Member

    Messages:
    6,598
    State:
    Iowa
    Jack say Hi to Jerry, he's on the right track. LOL

    Jack, if this cat is that tough and ya got to do it, do it this way. Get a thick walled draw string bag. Shove the furry little beast in the sack rear first (head first if ya want to cut him) leave his head out and his feet in. Wah-La half the battle won. Now place your paw over his head and use your pointing finger and thumb and straddle his face. Place tips of fingers just behind canine teeth, use your palm as a fulcrum and crank his mouth open. Thus exposing all those stinky teeth and have at him with whatever you want to use on them.

    After the procedure is accomplished let him calm down and then release him (never to be seen again, and you have cured your cat problem) LOL.)
     
  13. anchorpuller

    anchorpuller New Member

    Messages:
    857
    State:
    North Caro

    Good heavens the visual this one gave me. Just gotta say, I'd NOT stradle that cats face unless you don't have to stradle that bag to do it. I don't know about your cat, but mine can shred carpet...hmm... just how thick do them bags come? :smile2:

    Found this and it made me laugh after reading Tanya's post.

    [youtubevid]ZSeS_lHnNdY[/youtubevid]
     
  14. Netmanjack

    Netmanjack New Member

    Messages:
    3,734
    State:
    Ohio
    Wonder why that vet didnt take his temp? lol:crazy::eek:oooh::smile2:

    John, I'm look'n for a bag.............
     
  15. bluejay

    bluejay Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,494
    State:
    Napoleon, Mo.
    Thanks for the vid sis. Think maybe Tanya has seen that done? If they had of taken his temp that net may of not held!!
     
  16. Kutter

    Kutter New Member

    Messages:
    5,379
    State:
    Arnold, MO
    My dogs have seen me pick ripe grapes and, later, I will catch them eating the overripe ones that have fallen. Course, being mongrals, they just got drunk for a spell. They weren't smart enough to know they was supposed to die.
    Oh, I would highly value a dog that could rid the world of "acadamia nuts", especially them there California-Berkley ones.:wink:
     
  17. Catgirl

    Catgirl New Member

    Messages:
    13,546
    As I said, I've never tried what I suggested, and each cat is different. If I used the net that's out on the pontoon boat (which is obviously much stronger than the one those folks had) to stick Annie's legs through, I think it could work. But, she's normally a friendly cat and only weighs a l'il over 6 pounds.

    Couldn't laugh at the video though Laura. I found it disturbing, but I guess you gotta do what you gotta do :0a30:. I b'lieve that feline detests going to the doctor as much as I do.

    I can see why they named him/her TAZ (Tasmanian Devil).
     
  18. anchorpuller

    anchorpuller New Member

    Messages:
    857
    State:
    North Caro
    Sorry Tanya. I know my sense of humor isn't shared by everyone. I used to send the neighborhood kittens down the swimming pool slide too. :crazy:
     
  19. kat in the hat

    kat in the hat New Member

    Messages:
    4,875
    State:
    Missouri
    YEEEHAWWW! :smile2: Sounds like a good time to me!