i need some help bad!

Discussion in 'LOCAL IOWA TALK' started by bigcat22, Aug 4, 2008.

  1. bigcat22

    bigcat22 New Member

    Messages:
    8
    State:
    iowa
    ok heres the deal my cousin has a pond thats 32ft deep we measured in the winter he has fresh water coming in and going out of a tile line all the time well we stocked his pond with channel cats flatheads bluecat bullheads bluegill crappie and carp and theres big cat in there cus this winter the ice killed a couple that weighed 10-20IBs ive tried stinkbait minnows cut up chub ive tried bank lines jug fishing ive fished from shore and on ,y flatbootom boat but i never caught a cat yet but we know their in there ive even tried fishing at night ive tried liver and shrimp even ive been tryin to catch them for 3 years but i havent caught one yet some i need some help bad so please help me out i could use any advice i can get
     
  2. RamRod

    RamRod New Member

    Messages:
    2,047
    State:
    Ohio
    In all fairness, you've done what you can do. As far as the advice goes......I think I'd go fishing somewhere else! LOL!:wink:

    Also welcome aboard!
     

  3. thegavel

    thegavel New Member

    Messages:
    1,317
    State:
    West Des Moines, Iowa
    I would say you have it covered... Repeat maybe?

    I also think Johnny said it best... somewhere else maybe?

    Leopard Frogs... Try them:wink:
     
  4. Plowboy411

    Plowboy411 New Member

    Messages:
    918
    State:
    Georgia
    you didn't say if you were fishing on bottom or with a float.
    ponds 25 to 50 feet deep are not always a good thing,
    how much water acreage do you have,
    if you are sure the fish are there then try catching some small bullheads and bluegills from this same pond and fish some live and cut at different depths if this don't work then the die off may have been bigger than you think.
    hope this helps,,
    and welcome to the BOC friend.
     
  5. Boomer

    Boomer New Member

    Messages:
    1,037
    State:
    Oklahoma
    I would take me one of those bluegill and put him on a Jug. Let him float around. I have fished catfish ponds, and I have found that if you get skunked on liver, then cat a 2-3 inch bluegill and use his head. Works pretty good. If there are a lot of baitfish in the pound that might be your problem, pounds usually have an excess of bait fish. You might want to add a few more catfish. I would suggest a bigger Flat to thin them out. Dont go over board on the Flats though.
     
  6. Cuda

    Cuda Active Member

    Messages:
    553
    State:
    Iowa
    Name:
    Mike
    Try fishing 5' to 10' at night useing crawler. Do it every night for a week. When you are done each night throw in a few extra in. If you can catch some gills or bullheads use them for cut bait the same way. If you try some chicken liver you should be able to get some chanels or bullheads. They will get use to the new food source it just takes time. And in a pond try to fish without weight or as light as you can. The more you fish it the better they will bite. Hope this helps!:wink:
     
  7. fishndad30

    fishndad30 New Member

    Messages:
    65
    State:
    sigourney ,iowa
    try suspending cut shad , bottom out a few frogs , GRASSHOPPERS , crawfish tails , or stack some minnows on bottom ...when in doubt pile three of four earthworms on a long shank hook...if there is structure , fish it at night (concrete blocks , old pine tree piles , etc etc,,)...and be quiet, limit your shadow on the water..hope this helps
     
  8. wneubauer

    wneubauer New Member

    Messages:
    342
    State:
    McKinney, TX
    Nightcrawlers was my first thought if you haven't tried those yet...
     
  9. catfish kenny

    catfish kenny New Member

    Messages:
    6,064
    State:
    Iowa
    Basics may be it crawlers???? thats a good thought......I river fish mostly & this year has been way out of wack-when the water started giong down they would hit on worms one day then shad gut...stink bait...etc so maybe the weather is dion a # to ?????????????????????
     
  10. brother hilljack

    brother hilljack New Member

    Messages:
    7,305
    State:
    Shelbyville, TN
    Ponds can be hard to fish. Have you tried using live or cut bait? I would go with a 3-way rig/ long hook leader with a small float to get that bait off off the ground. Typically the hardest part of fishing a pond is presentation. Ponds create little to no water movement, therefore no bait movement. Getting you hook off of the ground may be the answer
     
  11. Iablue

    Iablue New Member

    Messages:
    91
    State:
    IOWA
    Most likely too many bait fish. Use a cast net and get some of the gills out and use for bait. I would scrape them up a bit. Good luck.
     
  12. ratkinson

    ratkinson New Member

    Messages:
    627
    State:
    NY
    I would suggest flying me in for a weekend fishing trip. We will try all of the above advice and have a pond side fish fry. If all of the above fails, I'll bring my mask,flippers, and a spear. LOL I have only had this problem with one pond, not nearly the size of what you are talking about, the fish were stunted(tiny bullheads). They had a particular prefference for a
    certain variety of bug larvae. Once we netted some of those we couldn't keep them off the hook. Most of the above are probably more likely the case, but, perhaps the pond is offering them something you haven't hit on yet. Deffinitely toss your net, but, pay close attention to what you pull in. Walk the pond edge and see what else is sharing the pond with them.
    Lastly if you have any die hard fishermen friends put the feelers out for an underwater fish cam. Hell invite them along, the guys who own those things love playin' with em. Get a bird's (fish) eye view of what is actually still in the pond. This will serve a multifold function. You can get an idea of the fish population. You will see if indeed the fish are there. You can narrow down the area and fish where the fish are. You can monitor their response to bait, or see what they are eating instead. You can also get an idea if you need to thin out your baitfish population. I have a feeling once you see what is going on down there you're going to have one of those, "I should have thought of that" moments. Good luck and please keep us posted. I'd really like to know what you figure out so drop me a PM when you figure out the key to that pond. It may come in useful later own down the road. I wish I had access to a 30'+ deep pond.
    Around here we call that a lake........LOL

    Richard:wink:
     
  13. ratkinson

    ratkinson New Member

    Messages:
    627
    State:
    NY
    One more thing......I am not an expert but I don't think winter should kill off a huge % of your fish if it has that kind of depth. If you get a solid freeze on top, shovel off areas to let the light in, or cut some holes. This will allow the plants inside to still do their job and make some oxygen. A supplementary source could be used as well to areate, and/or keep a section of the pond from freezing. If you've got a gem like that it will be worth the effort and time to do some preventative maintenance.

    Richard
     
  14. fish bait 999

    fish bait 999 New Member

    Messages:
    5
    State:
    iowa
    Here's a few thoughts to consider,
    We've all seen ponds loaded full of stunted bullheads. This is because the poop from fish like bullheads and carp are full of phosphate. The phosphate encourages extraordanary algee growth. Then when the pond ices over in the winter and the algee dies off the decaying algee sucks the oxygen from the water. This results in a winter kill. Bullheads can survive with less oxygen then bass or the larger kinds of catfish so you end up with a pond with only bullheads in it. As the preditors are all gone the bullheads reproduce to the point that there isn't enough food to sustain good growth all resulting in a pond full of stunted bullheads.:sad2: Carp can do the same thing. For these resons bullheads and carp shouldn't be put in a pond!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    As was pointed out earlier, depth isn't always good. Ponds can stratify to form layers with out enough oxygen to keep the fish alive. Decaying organic mater in the pond's bottom can deplete the oxygen.
    To dettermine if there are any of the bigger cats still living in your pond I would bait a trot line with bluegills from that pond. I would stretch it out so one end is near the surface at the shallow end and anchor the other end in the deep water.
    This will show two things, 1st if there are any still there you will catch some of them, 2nd if you are catching all of them near the surface it may indicate that oxygen has been depleted from the deep.
    Hope this helps!!!!!!!!!!!
    Good Luck and God Bless you and your's in all you do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Joe
     
  15. ratkinson

    ratkinson New Member

    Messages:
    627
    State:
    NY
    Joe,
    Good thought, not one that can be used leagally where I am. Since you seen to have a grip on the subject what is the diiference in stocking bullhead vs say channel cats. Do the bullead have more offspring? how come bullhead over population and stunting is so common vs other cats?
    I'm not sure because we don't have any other cats in our ponds around here. With fresh water coming in and out as Ronald said I figured he'd be in good shape oxygen wise. All our pond are shallow so the cause of winter fish kill here is cause by total freeze or by snow blocking out the light for the plants to function and produce oxygen. In lakes stratification is a normal cyclical thing, would it play a major role in winter fish kill of a pond? Look forward to hearing back on this subject. I have never had a stocked pond, always fished the wild population already in them.

    Richard
     
  16. Ahquabi_Master

    Ahquabi_Master New Member

    Messages:
    999
    State:
    WDM Iowa
    If you haven't done this already try to find critical times - like early morning and late afternoon. even try at night. the stink should work out, make sure you're trying all kinds of different spots too - don't just cast it into the depths.
     
  17. fish bait 999

    fish bait 999 New Member

    Messages:
    5
    State:
    iowa
    Richard,
    Bullhaeds don't have any problem reproducing in ponds. Channel cats ussually can't reproduce in ponds because they need running water. In most cases the channel cat population will need replenishing by restocking as they are fished out in ponds.

    May God bless you and your's in all you do!!!!!!!!!!!
    Joe
     
  18. fish bait 999

    fish bait 999 New Member

    Messages:
    5
    State:
    iowa
    Richard,
    To further reply to your questions above, the ponds in Iowa have a problem that you may not see in the eastern US. That problem is agraculture run off. 99% of the ponds in Iowa are affected in some way by this problem. I'm employed as a water treatment opperator at a water plant on the Mississippi River. Last spring when the rains came the ammonia levels across the state in our river jumped to record levels :eek:oooh: all due to ag run off. This came mostly from two sorces: First, our record high fuel prices have increased demand in ethanol. This has driven up corn prices so every farmer in the state is planting all the land they can in corn. To increase yeilds they fertilize. A very popular fertilizer is the application of anhydrouse ammonia. You know the old saying 'if a little is good, a lot is better!' so it is often over applied. The extra runs off into our ponds, lakes and rivers when the rains come. The second sorce is manure. The majority of ponds in Iowa were made to water livestock. When the cattle go for a drink, they also crap in the pond:eek:oooh:. But the worst offenders in this problem are the big livestock opperations, especially the hog confinments. Don't get me wrong. I like pork and America needs low cost pork. The most efficiant way to raise alot of pork in these confinements. But the problem that has risen from these is what to do with the sewage, especially in the winter once the sewage lagoon is full! :confused2: Ussually they will use it as fertilizer applying it by disking it in or just spraying it on the surface to soke in. Of course in the winter if the sewage lagoon is full and you have to do something with it you can't disk it in because the ground is frozen, so do you spray it? The problem here is it can't soke into frozen ground so the next rain washes it into the ditches, creeks, rivers, ponds and lakes. Streches of some creeks in Iowa have had every fish in them killed by this. The same can happen to ponds and do. Even if the farmer doesn't spray the sewage on his fields, If rains hit when his lagoon is full, the sewage can overflow into our surface waters if the runoff from the nearby fields flow into his lagoon.
    As was pointed out in earlier replies fertilizers in ponds increase algee growth. Increased algee makes oxegen depletion a much bigger problem and sorce of winter kills in Iowa. I've seen ponds that were once full of fish get completely covered with algee. Then the following year not have a fish left in it.:crazy:
    The above shows that the health of our ponds are at the mercy of the farmer who owns the lands around it where the water that fills it comes from!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    May God Bless you and yours in all you do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Joe
     
  19. ratkinson

    ratkinson New Member

    Messages:
    627
    State:
    NY
    Joe,
    I hadn't thought of that and you are correct rarely have I come across this even on a small scale where I live. In fact I can only remember one place where I have seen it. Not a fish left alive in that pond (on the downside of the hill where cattle were grazed) went from my secret spot to useless in one season.

    Richard