Help from those smarter than me....

Discussion in 'Fishing Reel Review' started by Colsrob, Jul 17, 2009.

  1. Colsrob

    Colsrob Active Member

    Messages:
    862
    State:
    Ohio, Columbus
    Hello all.

    I am new to posting, but I have been reading the threads for a little while now. Some really good info and it has helped me quite a bit. I thank everyone for that.

    Now I have a question that I have not seen a direct comment on yet.

    While I really do enjoy catfishing and have done it most of my 43 years, I guess I am not what most would consider a fanatic about it. I have nice gear, but it was mostly chosen as a multi-purpose set-up.

    I have a matching set of 4601C4's. They are terrific reels and have done great for the most part. However, i'm not sure if there is something wrong, or if they are just not designed to handle everything. Sometimes, when fighting a larger fish, not only will the drag release, but the handle will also turn without turning the spool. Basically, it appears to be slipping. Is that a common occurance?

    From that I also have this question: If I added a power handle and changed the gear to a 5.3:1 ratio, would there really be any difference between the 4601C4 and the 6501TC(Trophy Series)? The Trophy has the 6.3:1 ratio and that has caused me to reconsider purchasing them. I know the 65's are larger, but would there be any/much difference when fighting a big cat?

    Basically, would there be any benefit for me to upgrade to the larger reels, or just modify the ones I currently use?

    Thanks for any advice that you have.
     
  2. kscathunter

    kscathunter New Member

    Messages:
    2,367
    State:
    Louisburg,
    thats what it is designed to do, if its loose, easy to pull line by hand you can tighten it up turning the star. if its pretty tight and the fish is pulling line out, let it, wait for it to stop pulling... then reel, pull up with the rod then reel in as you lower the rod and repeat if hes still not coming.
     

  3. TITANSFAN2104

    TITANSFAN2104 New Member

    Messages:
    577
    State:
    Smith county TN
    thats just your drag- if your wanting more power- just crank it down. if you alreay have and it still slips, its time for you to upgrade the dag!! maybe snagged2 will see this!! he is the abu expert from what ive read
     
  4. shanelures

    shanelures New Member

    Messages:
    517
    State:
    ohio
    welcome to the boc! someone will know something about that!! good luck, shane
     
  5. bedbug jr

    bedbug jr New Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    State:
    Missouri
    Welcome to the BOC Rob. You'll find the Allstate of catfishermen here, in other words, you're in "good hands". Stay safe and good fishing!!!:wink:
     
  6. Colsrob

    Colsrob Active Member

    Messages:
    862
    State:
    Ohio, Columbus
    Thanks for replying, to everyone.

    So, KS, let me get this straight... the handle is supposed to slip while cranking, as part of the drag system?

    It's not just the spool that is "slipping", the handle also won't allow me to crank because it just spins and the spool doesn't react. However, the fish doesn't have to be running or even pulling all that hard. I have had it happen on 5#ers(not the spool, but the handle itsself). I understand about pumping the fish, but I used to use spinning reels and this occurance caught me off guard.

    If so, then it brings me to the second part of my post. Would it be more beneficial for me to buy the 6501TC reels, or just "upgrade" my 4601C4's? Besides the size difference, is there any major difference between the 2, seeing as they both are 6.3:1 ratio? Couldn't I just replace a few parts and make mine work similar?
     
  7. TITANSFAN2104

    TITANSFAN2104 New Member

    Messages:
    577
    State:
    Smith county TN
    huge difference in line capacity-it really depends on how you fish and what size fish your tryn to catch!! it sounds to me like your drag isnt tight enough or its wore out!! or something is wrong with the gearing but i think you would know if the gears were bad!
     
  8. Colsrob

    Colsrob Active Member

    Messages:
    862
    State:
    Ohio, Columbus
    OK, thanks much!

    That sounds more like it, even if it's not exactly good news. :)

    The reels work fine, other than the mentioned issue. I don't think the gears are bad. Plus, if I tighten the drag any more, the fish won't be able to spool off line and I will lose anything of size. :)

    I suppose I should reconsider the 6501's, seeing that I only use 14# test at the moment. I should probably get the larger reels and put at least 20# on them. I'm just still a bit concerned about the cranking power with the 6.3:1 ratio. My father has a couple of the old 5000's and they seem to crank in the larger fish much easier than my current reels. The only difference that I can see between his and mine are the ratios.
     
  9. Colsrob

    Colsrob Active Member

    Messages:
    862
    State:
    Ohio, Columbus
    Thank you BB. Hopefully I will have more to post about in the near future, besides my lack of knowlodge of Garcia reels. :)

    BTW: I use Allstate. :)
     
  10. SGTREDNECK

    SGTREDNECK New Member

    Messages:
    1,522
    State:
    Tennessee
    welcome to the BOC. It sounds like your reel is messed up. If the reel handle turns and not the spool, the anti-reverse is messed up. JMO You will find your answers to all your questions on the BOC. Good luck Andrew
     
  11. 320hotrod

    320hotrod New Member

    Messages:
    356
    State:
    KCMO
    And you're sure the line is not just slipping on the spool? It sounds like you use mono, so I would think not, but braid can slip on you and appear that the spool isn't spinning when it actually is. As for gear changes, I'm certainly no expert, but in manufacturing they may design everything internally with similarly rated components, meaning that if you beef up one item, everything else is line afterwards is the weak link for potential failure.
     
  12. kscathunter

    kscathunter New Member

    Messages:
    2,367
    State:
    Louisburg,
    If your line drag is tight but your handle slips under less pressure you got oil on the drag washer under your main gear & drag assembly you will need to dissemble the handle side of your reel and wipe it off. I believe there is detailed instructions with pictures on dissembling and reassembling abu's in the library if not I can walk you through it it's not bad the hardest thing is not loosing the tiny c clip under the handle nut.

    Only you can decide if you need or want a bigger reel. If you ever thought you didn't bring enough to tackle a fish you may need a bigger reel. If you find your self wanting to fish a big river you might want to think about a bigger reel.
    There are better drags out there the carbontex is probally the best.
     
  13. kscathunter

    kscathunter New Member

    Messages:
    2,367
    State:
    Louisburg,
    i dont know the spesifics of your reel but it is possable you have the carbontex already:confused2: anyway i did your homework and here you go http://www.catfish1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13940 the place that is causing your problem is the drag washer between the drive shaft and the main gear in the picture i like he sad like my washers dry. wipe off all your drag washers and assemble like he said and if this doesent fix your problem please post that im full of it:wink: and if it does your welcome. either way ill give you a bunch of rep points on here for trying.:cool2::wink::big_smile:
     
  14. catfishinsc

    catfishinsc New Member

    Messages:
    507
    State:
    SC
    The slipping is just your drag. If you tie off your line to something solid and try to reel it will do the same thing. I've had the same kind of thing happen if I had my drag a little loose. Usually it's a medium size fish in the river that's not running any, but standing his ground with around the tension it takes to pull the drag. Pumping the rod can help and sometimes I'll go ahead and tighten the drag a little if I don't think he'll break my line.

    You'll may want to replace the drag washers with some from Smooth Drag. I changed all mine and use them dry. With these new drag washers you don't want oil on the drag washers. Follow the instructions from Smooth Drag about cleaning and polishing the metal washer, and remember to replace the washer under the main gear.

    Changing the gear ratio will give you more pulling power but it won't help the slipping, that is all drag. If you're going to change you might as well do it at the same time since the disassembly is pretty much the same for changing drag washers and gears. I'm pretty sure you will have to change both gears, which will be pretty expensive.

    As far as I know, if all but the first number are the same on the ambassadeur, and the first number is 4, 5, or 6, they are the same reel, with the difference being the width of the spool, and usually the ones that start with 6 will have a clicker. Basically everything but the spool, frame, worm gear, and the sleeve over the worm gear are identical and interchangeable. If you bought the parts you can even add a clicker on the smaller reels. I saw a guide one time online that showed what all the numbers and letters meant, but I don't remember where, but you can probably find it with a google search.
     
  15. Colsrob

    Colsrob Active Member

    Messages:
    862
    State:
    Ohio, Columbus
    Brandon, thank you very much, but I didn't expect you to do my homework for me. :)

    I think you might have pegged it. I did disassemble the reels at the seasons start to clean things up and oil them. I'll bet anything that I got oil on the washers, thus causing the problem.

    My reels are in great shape, but they are about 8 years old. Not sure what drag type it has. I have gotten hooked on fishing the Ohio this year, so I think it counts as a "big" river. :) Bigger gear might be a must.

    I know you can't tell me what the best set-up for me might be, but what about the differences in the reels? If you know, would there be any/much difference between the 2, even though they have the same gear ratio's? That's where my biggest questions are. I figured that a lower ratio would equal more cranking power, thus making it a little easier during a fight. Just so you and others know, I currently use 6ft rods, that are basically Bass rods, but have ordered a couple of new ones from my local bait store. Although, the new ones are still only 6.5 ft. I don't like any bigger since I fish from my boat. They are very stout, and a heavy action. I got my father a couple for fathers day and liked them so much I decided to get myself some. Great thing...they're cheap! :) $27 YAD America/MK Power.

    Thanks for all your help.
     
  16. Colsrob

    Colsrob Active Member

    Messages:
    862
    State:
    Ohio, Columbus
    Brian, yes, i'm sure it's not the spool. And no, I do not use braid. If I get snagged, I don't want to drag my boat out of position to try and break/free it. :)

    Great point about the components being affected by a change...even if it turns out to be not the case. :) Makes sense.

    Thank you too.
     
  17. Colsrob

    Colsrob Active Member

    Messages:
    862
    State:
    Ohio, Columbus
    Thank you Tom, that's a lot of info.

    Just wanted to let you know that my current reels came with the clicker. That was the reason that I chose them over other similar models. I absolutely love my clickers.
     
  18. TITANSFAN2104

    TITANSFAN2104 New Member

    Messages:
    577
    State:
    Smith county TN
    if your fishing from a boat and can move with a big fish those reels will be fine but if you get a hold of a biggun and he decides he wants to run and you made a long cast then line capacity might be an issue.!! Especially on a 4600!! I have a 5600 and dont even attempt to use it in a river because if you got current+ a decent fish you got one of two choices cut the anchor rope or jump in after him.. :smile2: With the larger reels in the 6500 and the 7000 your line capacity is usually not an issue!! There are all sorts of different scenarios to determine what reel/rod/line setup would be best! but my guess is if you got 150-200 yds of at least 25-35 lb test , a good rod to fight the fish and a good drag to hold on, theres not much a fish can do to get away from you if your in a boat but bank fishing is a different story!! i would like about 4-5 new 7000ic3s but thats $700 and i have 5 6500s so until im proven to need something bigger my 6500s will have to do!!!!!:roll_eyes: you probabl think you have alot of line but look at the 6500s then thr 7000sand compare spool size to yours and you will see what i mean about line cap!!
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2009
  19. kscathunter

    kscathunter New Member

    Messages:
    2,367
    State:
    Louisburg,
    i pretty mutch agree with what he said you may do ok with them. there wont be mutch difference besides line cap, i think the 6000 does have 2 more washers witch wont nessairly do mutch other than reduce wear may add verry little pressure. i have a 4600cb and it has enough drag if i were to use it for cats. yours being 8 years should not have the carbontex washers that greatly improve smoothness and advertize 30% increase in pressure and i think for your reel could be had for $6 + a buck or 2 for s&h at http://www.smoothdrag.com/ i dont know for a fact but i dont think you can wear them out. if yours are worn out id suggest theise if not than keep using them till they are.

    also adding to what he said about cut anchor rope and follow. you can tie your rope to a carabiner snap and also attach a pool noodle style float to it, then with a quick snap your free to chase the fish and your rope will float till you come back for it.
     
  20. Colsrob

    Colsrob Active Member

    Messages:
    862
    State:
    Ohio, Columbus
    Yeah, it's funny you mention the snaps w/floats. I have a couple of dock fenders that I keep handy. I told my father last week on the Ohio, that he should be ready to tie them on and release the anchors. :)

    I had 4 good runs, but discovered that my hooks sucked when using gills. I bought some new ones, just today. Although, I did goof up and grabbed the wrong ones then I wanted. I meant to grab some #7 Octopus Circle, but instead picked up just the Octopus. Not a big problem, right? :)