Hawkins Muzzle Loader

Discussion in 'Guns - Blackpowder' started by Katfish Kern, Sep 30, 2008.

  1. Katfish Kern

    Katfish Kern New Member

    Messages:
    251
    State:
    Florida
    I'm shooting a Hawkins 50 cal. I haven't shot this gun in about 13 years. I am using 44/240 grain, and 44-300 jhp. Here is my question and it might be a dumb one. How much powder do I need for a 100 yard shot. For some reason I want to say 50 from my measurer, but I am not sure.
     
  2. Poppa

    Poppa New Member

    Messages:
    1,233
    State:
    Pinson, Al
    Most people shoot 70 to 90 grains by volume not weight of black powder
    or pyrodex for a .50 cal. You say you are going to shoot a .44 cal bullet
    probably with some sort of sabot. Most traditional rifles have a hard time
    shooting these bullets because the rifleing is to slow. On all traditional
    rifles I have seen the twist is 1 in 48 or more this means the bullet will
    make 1 revolution in 48" of barrel. This is good for maxie balls and such.
    To shoot the saboted modern bullets a 1 in 22 is best, it takes this
    fast twist to stableize the modern bullet. I shoot a .54 cal renegade
    with a 1 in 72 twist for patched ball.
     

  3. trapperP

    trapperP New Member

    Messages:
    72
    State:
    Georgia
    I think we are shooting the same rifle, a TC 'Hawken' in .50 cal - for me, I use the TC bullet, lube it with BoreButter and seat it over ~75-80 Grs of Pyrodex. I use the ~ (Approx) because I use a 45/70 case level full for a powder measure. My rifle is very accurate with this loading and it will shoot through a whitetail from end to end. I shot one looking at me and my son found the bullet in the knee joint of the hind leg when he boned it out.
    I'm not sure about the bullet you are using but I think this loading will work for you. Give it a try.
     
  4. Katmandeux

    Katmandeux New Member

    Messages:
    1,618
    State:
    Checotah, Oklahoma
    You should be able to get an owner's manual free from T/C.

    Lotsa good info there, including comprehensive loading tables for everything they make.
     
  5. Katfish Kern

    Katfish Kern New Member

    Messages:
    251
    State:
    Florida
    You say to slow....I am using hornady sabots. Will this not work for whitetail?
     
  6. Katmandeux

    Katmandeux New Member

    Messages:
    1,618
    State:
    Checotah, Oklahoma
    Seth, as a general rule, the 1 in 48" twist does best with round balls or conicals like the T/C Maxi-Hunter.

    That said, some rifles like a certain load, while identical rifles like something else, entirely. All you can do is try the saboted pistol bullets, and see what happens. If you can't get the kind of accuracy you need, try some round balls...they are cheap, and under-appreciated.

    Thompson lists three loads for their 240gr Break-o-Way sabots in your gun, 80, 90, and 100 grains, with 90 being the recommended load.

    I hope this helps.
     
  7. switchback

    switchback New Member

    Messages:
    212
    State:
    Illinois
    My dad has an old Hawkin that he bought and put together in one of the kits. Made a beautiful Gun. All we shoot through it are patchand ball or maxi balls that we mold oursleves, he saw the molds in a magazine and made his own, anyway this gun leaves where they stood but it takes twenty minutes on a clam day or some quick footwork to see that you made the shot. I say try several different balls and sabots and such but i think that the patch and ball would be a good choice. He meant that the old guns did not make your bullet twist as fast as a new gun, which means that you will not get the accuracy potential with that particular round in that particular gun. The slower twist also cuts down on velocity. But yes if it works for you it will be a great load to kill deer with.
     
  8. Katfish Kern

    Katfish Kern New Member

    Messages:
    251
    State:
    Florida
    thx for all of your help fellas
     
  9. Poppa

    Poppa New Member

    Messages:
    1,233
    State:
    Pinson, Al
    Seth I am talking about the spin put on the bullet being to slow. It takes a
    faster spin on the bullet to stableize the modern bullets than for the old
    patched ball or conical bullet. If your rifle is a thompson center hawkin
    with the original barrel I am pretty sure it 1 in 48 twist. I have a thompson
    center renegade and it was 1 in 48 twist. When the .44 bullets first came
    out I wanted to use them. They look awesome. I bought 2 20 round boxes
    and tried to sight in my rifle. I never hit in the same place twice. I shot
    38 times and could not get a group tighter than a foot at 50 yds. I went
    back to the conical bullet and my group tightened back to 2 1/2 in. at
    50 yds. Everyone I know that shoots traditional muzzle loaders tried to
    shoot the modern saboted bullets could not get good groups and had to
    go back to the conical bullet or round ball. The in-line are mostly 1 in 20
    or 1 in 22 twist and they are very accurate with the .44 bullets. Try your
    rifle with the .44 it might be very accurate with the .44s. But if its not
    do not get discouraged you just need to go to a conical or patched ball.
    Shoot several 3 shot groups to be sure your gun likes the .44. I hope
    it does. Good Luck and Good Hunting
     
  10. bluejay

    bluejay Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,494
    State:
    Napoleon, Mo.
    I still use the balls in mine with 95 gr. pyrodex powder. All over the place at 100gr. I can drive tacks with 95 gr.
     
  11. Mi11er

    Mi11er New Member

    Messages:
    5,117
    State:
    Independence, M
    It is weird how just a little powder makes so much difference.
     
  12. Katfish Kern

    Katfish Kern New Member

    Messages:
    251
    State:
    Florida
    alright fellas, this is gonna sound dumb. I went to the store and the fella looked at me like I was crazy when I asked for mini balls.He told me that I couldnt get them anymore, and if I wanted some I would have to make them. Where can I find some????
     
  13. Mi11er

    Mi11er New Member

    Messages:
    5,117
    State:
    Independence, M
    I would order them from Cabala's or Bass pro. Or go to a store where the employees have a clue. Good old fashion round balls and Maxi balls I think can be found in most gun shops.
     
  14. Katfish Kern

    Katfish Kern New Member

    Messages:
    251
    State:
    Florida
    thx
     
  15. Katmandeux

    Katmandeux New Member

    Messages:
    1,618
    State:
    Checotah, Oklahoma
    If you look for Thompson/Center Maxi-Hunters, they'll likely have those. I buy them @ Wally World. The round balls are a little harder to come by, but worth the effort. Cheap and effective.
     
  16. slimdaddy

    slimdaddy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,600
    State:
    Nelsonville, Oh
    Name:
    Keith
    or you can get buffalo bullets i had a charles daly hawkins 54 cal and i just used round balls in it
     
  17. South Grand Laker

    South Grand Laker New Member

    Messages:
    723
    State:
    Oklahoma
    i was just given to me a almost brand new T/C hawken, good gun i like it , i'm ready freddy for this saturaday, good luck