Gasoline

Discussion in 'Boat Repair Help' started by primitivefrn, Jul 17, 2006.

  1. primitivefrn

    primitivefrn Member

    Messages:
    782
    State:
    collins mo
    Have a 175 merc. sports jet, haveing problems, when it is idleing and dies its real hard to start or if going at a slow speed and shut off , does the same.
    had it checked out and was told everything alright , that vapor locking was problem, called boat biulder, and was told that gas mixture has changed, corn juice added.
    was causing the problem, a form of vapor lock I guess, Said he had, talked to Merc. but of, no advice, from them,
    DOES anybody, have a solution, to this would octain booster help.
    Jim
     
  2. crome

    crome New Member

    Messages:
    328
    State:
    ilm,nc
    i think i would give sea foam a try,sounds like you have water in you gas,i don't think a octain booster will do anything
     

  3. Bobpaul

    Bobpaul New Member

    Messages:
    3,039
    State:
    Supply NC
    That's all we need now, another form of alcohol added to the aleady poor quality of gas.

    I don't have an answer either, but if you try seafoam or octane booster, do it one at a time so you know what might work.
     
  4. Bubbakat

    Bubbakat New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    McMinnvill
    I am with you here Bob it has got to stop some where. I think I will build a motor that will run on straight moonshine. Then me and the motor both can be happy or sick one.
     
  5. trnsmsn

    trnsmsn New Member

    Messages:
    1,214
    State:
    Missouri Originally Now I
    IMHO, I Don't Believe That It Is Vapor Locking, For The Most Part Vapor Locking Is Caused By Fuel Boiling. Most Generally This Occurs After The Fuel Is Allowed To Sit(Remain) In Steel Fuel lines That Are Exposed To Extreme Underhood Temperatures.

    Now Being As The Under Cowl Temperatures Are Nowhere Near What A Highway Vehicle Reaches AND The Fact That Marine Fuel Lines Are Rubber, Which Is An Insulator, Leads Me To Believe That The Odds Of That Occuring Are Much Less Than That Of Poor Quality Fuel, Loss Of Fuel Volume Due To Restriction Etc.

    In An Effort To Reduce/Eliminate Under Cowl Temperature, Try Running The Boat With The Cowl Off & See If The Problem Remains/Changes.HTH Elliot
     
  6. Big Sam

    Big Sam Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,344
    State:
    Booneville AR
    Name:
    Sam
    well if your merc is like mine you push in the key and it injects gas in the carbs..no choke butterflys'...so it should start immediately.cold hot or whatever.....my merc manual says no super-unleaded gas or octane booster should be used it can damage the motor..iagree on the plastic fuel line not vapor locking.....someone could be using that as an excuse cause they can't find the real problem..get a second apinion..our dealers will go with you on the water here to find the problem.
     
  7. primitivefrn

    primitivefrn Member

    Messages:
    782
    State:
    collins mo
    The owner of River Pro, said he pulled a cowl, didnt seem to help. carb. mortors are worst than injected, how ever mines a injected. Merc. tec couldn't help him, Said a boat dealer in Minn. Said they had two types of gas,
    one to use on off road. Which didnt have the problem with. so apperantly Iam not the only one, having this problem, suppose to effect 2 cycle, more.
    Just looking, for answers, and Thanks for input and advise
    Jim
     
  8. Hootowlc3

    Hootowlc3 New Member

    Messages:
    409
    State:
    Florida
    Try trimming the motor all the way down before starting.
     
  9. trnsmsn

    trnsmsn New Member

    Messages:
    1,214
    State:
    Missouri Originally Now I
    I Didn't Notice Before That Your Engine Is Injected. Since It Is There Should Be A High Pressure Fuel pump To Keep The Injectors Pressurized.

    On My Suzuki There Is A High Fuel Pressure Regulator, That I Heard Is Prone To Going Bad, Maybe You Have A Similar Problem ?
     
  10. Mr.T

    Mr.T Active Member

    Messages:
    2,554
    State:
    MO
    If you're buying the cheap unleaded at Casey's, stop. It has ethanol in it. The stuff that's $.03/gal more doesn't. But I'd rather go to a real gas station instead and buy good fuel.

    In Minnesota, they mandate 10% ethanol in plain gas - that's probably the difference between the "off road" and "car" gas.

    I'll almost guarantee it's not vapor lock - as mentioned above, that's a problem caused when the fuel boils in the fuel line due to high temperatures and the fuel pump essentially cavitates and is unable to move any fuel. Gasoline with ethanol will boil at a much lower temperature, thus the concern.

    But unless your problem only happens on really hot days and after an extended run, that's not it. If it happens right out of the gate, it's something else.

    An injected engine should just start - you don't need to push the key in to "choke" it (I don't think that does anything on an injected engine anyway). The computer is supposed to be smart enough to get the fuel/air mixture right.

    I wonder if it could be a plugged injector?
     
  11. spoonfish

    spoonfish New Member

    Messages:
    3,780
    State:
    Warsaw, Mo.
    When I have been along with Jim it starts fine several times and then all of the sudden it turns over and just doesnt seem to fire. This is usally after we have made a drift so the motor is not hot. Being injected is it getting to much gas (is this possible)? I know in a injected vehicle your not supose to touch the gas pedal.
     
  12. trnsmsn

    trnsmsn New Member

    Messages:
    1,214
    State:
    Missouri Originally Now I
    On An Injected Motor Of Any Sort Depressing/Pulling The Throttle Will Have NO Effect On The Starting UNLESS You Have It At Full Throttle, In Which Case Most Systems Will Go To What Is Called, "Clear Flood Mode".

    JAT, Try Using A Different Fuel Supply/Container, If You Have A Split(Ask Me How I know) In The Pick Up Tube It Will Suck Air & Cavitate. This Is Always Worsened On An Injected System, Due To The Pressure Required To Operate The System.
     
  13. trnsmsn

    trnsmsn New Member

    Messages:
    1,214
    State:
    Missouri Originally Now I
    Afew Things Just Came To Mind, #1 Engine Compartment Temperature DOES Rise After Shut Down, So You May Have An Inector Tip That Is Dirty And Letting The Fuel "Drizzle Into The Cylinder", #2 Take A Can Of Ether/Starting Fluid & Give It A Shot Of That, If It Starts, Then It's A fuel Problem. If Not Then You're Probably Looking At An Ignition Problem.

    Kep me Posted, Elliot
     
  14. ears

    ears New Member

    Messages:
    55
    State:
    *Required*
    A lot of boats have been having problems with switching over to E10. Some of the big sportfish boats are having to have 20 thousand or more worth of work done replacing fiberglass tanks that are being eaten by the ethanol. Aluminum and plastic fuel tanks are not affected but when you switch over to E10 you are supposed to run out the old style gas you may still have problems with the ethanol cleaning all the varnish and crud from your tank and clogging your filters, it also attracts water and will fill your water seperator up. Newer motors have used alcohol resistant fuel lines for a long time now but it is worth checking on older motors if you have to use the stuff. It will say E10 on the gas pump if thats what you got. Off road fuel may or may not have it its an emissions thing, around here off road just means they didnt add in the road use tax.

    Heres what yamaha has to say about it.

    ©2006 YAMAHA MOTOR CORPORATION, USA
    OUTBOARD 6/05/2006 O2006-009
    Yamaha Outboards and Ethanol Fuel Blends – All Models

    As of spring 2006, most gasoline refiners will switch to ethanol-blended fuels. This may present a challenge for boat builders,
    dealers, and boaters in the months ahead. Until recently, refiners have primarily used the chemical MTBE (Methyl Tertiary Butyl
    Ether) as an additive “to oxygenate” fuel, thereby, reducing emissions. Unfortunately, the chemical has been associated with
    ground water pollution. As a result, most refineries have chosen to remove it from their blends. Using ethanol in place of MTBE
    solves the ground water issue, since ethanol has a very short life in the environment before it is broken down chemically by
    nature.

    Properties
    Both consumers and those in the boating industry should be aware of the following characteristics of ethanol, even when
    blended in ratios of as little as 10 percent:

    1. Ethanol attracts and absorbs moisture from the air. That means boaters will likely face more fuel contamination issues from
    water absorbed through their fuel tank vents.

    2. Ethanol can dissolve some solid materials (e.g., varnish or even oxidation in steel and aluminum tanks) commonly found
    in fuel tanks, thereby contaminating the fuel. Additionally, it can loosen any corrosion or particulate matter in the fuel system.

    3. In some cases, ethanol has been known to dissolve components of the fuel system itself (e.g., fiberglass fuel tanks).
    However, modern fuel hose is made to withstand the effects of ethanol exposure.

    4. Ethanol blends can react chemically with MTBE fuel blends, causing additional contamination.

    Recommendations:
    Fuel blends using as much as 10 percent ethanol are appropriate for use in all of Yamaha’s current outboard models. Yamaha
    does not recommend the use of fuels with higher concentrations of ethanol (e.g., E85, which contains 85 percent ethanol) or
    any other fuel blend that contains more than 10 percent ethanol.
    In addition, Yamaha recommends boat builder partners and boaters (as applicable) take the following steps to mitigate the
    potential impact of ethanol in motor fuel:

    1. Use fuel system components that are compatible with ethanol blends or replace those in use that are not compatible (e.g.,
    fiberglass fuel tanks).
    2. Avoid co-mingling MTBE and ethanol-blended fuels. As a precaution, boaters should be advised to use only one supplier
    for fuel purchases in the months ahead to ensure constancy during the industry changeover period from MTBE to ethanol
    blends.

    3. Install a Yamaha mini-10™ filter or 10-Micron filter. The 10-Micron filter is designed for use on boats with Yamaha outboards.
    The smaller mini-10 is designed for smaller boats with engines 115hp and under. Both Yamaha products filter out contaminants
    and separate water from fuel. The mini-10 features an aluminum head and is made from coated steel inside and
    painted steel outside to combat corrosion. The 10-Micron fi lter features either an aluminum or stainless steel head and is
    also made from coated interior and painted exterior steel. Both meet all U.S. Coast Guard and ABYC (American Boat and
    Yacht Council) standards.

    4. Consumers should be encouraged to carry spare fi lter cartridges in the event the fi lter element becomes clogged with
    contaminants while the outboard is in use.
    Related Considerations:

    All Yamaha products, rigging, accessories and parts, including Yamalube lubricants and fuel stabilizers are compatible with fuel
    blends using up to 10 percent ethanol.
     
  15. crome

    crome New Member

    Messages:
    328
    State:
    ilm,nc
    good post ears,i had trouble with my yamaha for about the first 1/2 of tank of the 10%,the 2nd half ran good,and no problems sence,i do add sea foam at each fill up now
     
  16. duxsrus

    duxsrus New Member

    Messages:
    1,014
    State:
    SW Ohio
    Very informative post ears, rep coming your way.
     
  17. MRR

    MRR New Member

    Messages:
    4,947
    State:
    Louisiana,Mo.
    If your saying that ethonol may be the problem then were gonna have a big problem here in MO. our wonderful governor just signed a bill that all gas in state of MO. must have 10% ethonol in it. Figures huh.