Fox and the snare

Discussion in 'Trapping & Fur Taking' started by sds888, Jul 28, 2006.

  1. sds888

    sds888 New Member

    Messages:
    378
    State:
    Townville, South Carolina
    I got a call that there is a fox living in a culvert under a driveway in a nieghborhood. The people had taken pictures of the fox. The fox looks sick and is almost completely hairless you can tell it is a red fox. So due to it being a nieghborhood with kids and pets around I went to get a deperdation permit today to use a snare. Well it is illegal in this state to use a snare outside of water unless you get a depredation permit. I did not want to use legholds becuase of neighborhood cats and I didnt want to use a cage beacuse the fox is pretty weary. So in the end they would not let me get a depredation for using the snare only legholds. Their concern was pets getting into the snares and my concern is pets getting into legholds. Oh well I guess I will be setting legholds. Just thought I would get yalls opion on this.
    Stephen
     
  2. cuttingout69

    cuttingout69 New Member

    Messages:
    1,349
    State:
    Louisiana
    Stephen, as with all government agencies, they know what is best. The fellow driving the nail, running the wire or in your case making the set never know anything. We are dumb and the government is smart.

    What type of trap are you going to set now? I have had great success with offset for K-9s in the past. I use a #2 wolfer. This is the only BMI trap I will use in fact. I dose little to no damage to the foot/leg.
     

  3. sds888

    sds888 New Member

    Messages:
    378
    State:
    Townville, South Carolina
    well all I have are duke traps. But I am either going to set a 1.5 softcath or offsset we will see depends on what mood I am in. Your right government always knows best *^%*%^(%(& sorry had a cough there lol.
    Stephen
     
  4. cuttingout69

    cuttingout69 New Member

    Messages:
    1,349
    State:
    Louisiana
    do you like the duke traps? I remember when they came on the market, I knew on fellow that bought some. I have never own any. All I have ever used was Victor, the BMI wolfers, and Blake and Lamb. Just wondering.
     
  5. sds888

    sds888 New Member

    Messages:
    378
    State:
    Townville, South Carolina
    Yea for what they are worth I like them. If I was running loong trap lines I might go with a better company but the trapping I do here and there They work for me. I have never had one that I know of fail me. But they are cheaply made. For a beginner that is just started trapping not knowing whether it is going to be a life long thing I would recomened them but a professional trapper I wouldnt. You get what you pay for. I have been using hem for about eight years now with no complainants.
    Stephen

    P.S. I know 223 hates them. LOL
     
  6. 223Smitty

    223Smitty New Member

    Messages:
    478
    State:
    Indiana
    Footholds man....footholds :big_smile: Seriously, the term "Leghold" tends to make one think of some extremely oversized trap that catches an animal nearer it's torso. "Foothold" is much more accurate as to their operation.

    Not trying to "nit-pick".....but consider this:

    You're trying to gain permission from someone to trap their land (and their borderline as to letting you)....which term sounds more ethical (and true)? If you're catching them by the "leg"....lol, your traps too big.

    And yes, I dislike Dukes with a passion because they have no concern about taking trappers money for traps which can't even be set without flying apart. Been there done that...................

    Smitty
     
  7. 223Smitty

    223Smitty New Member

    Messages:
    478
    State:
    Indiana
    lol....see ya got me on them Dukes & I forgot the rest of what I was gonna say. :tounge_out:

    I'm with you in that I'd use a smaller trap. Fox won't fight a trap that hard, and when you catch "FiFi" (the non-lawabiding neighbors pooch) it'll be in good shape when you call the pound so they can give it a new home :wink:

    Also......12 Duke #1.75 Offsets will run you around $75. You could get 12 #1.65 Bridger Offsets for another $15.....that's little more that a buck a trap........

    I've said it before.....hold a Duke & Bridger side by side......you won't need a pair of calipers to see the material thickness difference. And if you look at it that way, the Bridgers are a much better deal.

    Smitty
     
  8. cuttingout69

    cuttingout69 New Member

    Messages:
    1,349
    State:
    Louisiana
    Well, I was not wanting to hurt any feelings, but since 223 has gone and done that for me, I will tell you the reason I have never owned and will never own any Duke traps. The only person I know that bought them, set them for the first time to come back the next morning and find two of them had broke springs. Bad part is, the trap was still set. One of the spring on both #11 Dukes had broke during the cold night. The trap was still set with one spring. During the week of traping he had 3 more do the same thing. They are by all accounts cheaply made in China. Plus, China just put a ban on our otter going into there country which killed the good otter market we had. :sad2:
     
  9. sds888

    sds888 New Member

    Messages:
    378
    State:
    Townville, South Carolina
    Well it diffently sounds like yalls opion on Duke is justified. I just have never had a problem with them so I cant talk bad about them until I do.
    Stephen
     
  10. 223Smitty

    223Smitty New Member

    Messages:
    478
    State:
    Indiana
    lol, I hope I didn't "hurt anyones feelings".....wasn't my intention. Those #11's are junk. I bought 6 to modify, brought them home, set 1, and one of the jaws flew-out & almost hit me in the face. I set another, and you could hold it out & watch the cheap frame bend.

    That's what "ticked" me off towards Dukes. There is NO WAY anyone can tell me they weren't aware of these traps being pure junk, yet they delivered them to be sold anyway.

    I used to be a member of Traps4Kids, mostly to help-out the younger trappers with their trap questions & any other help I could offer. After expressing my "dislike" for Dukes, a moderator told me to keep my mouth shut about them......all because Duke donates traps to that site. Well.....WHOOPEE! I prefer to throw my trash away, not "donate" it.... Needless to say, I informed the mod there that I wasn't about to set back while they spewed lies about how great those traps are. I think that is very poor judgement and steered young trappers to throw their money away on junk. The same moderator is in the service, and made it known how he was fighting for this countrys "freedom"......yet he wanted to take-away my right to free-speech.....kind of a hypocrite if you ask me.

    If Dukes are all you can afford, or you want a cheap trap to use in a high theft area (and don't care to lose it)......that's one thing.......but to brag on their "quality" or "value".....is a joke.

    I used to run a few Dukes, but after all this, I've gotten rid of nearly all of them. I have some new ones I modified to sell.....lol, but doesn't seem like any of the Duke fans want to put their $$ where their mouth is, so I'll probably end-up losing money on them (as in won't be able to "break even"), just like every other one I've owned.

    Smitty
     
  11. Georgiajack

    Georgiajack New Member

    Messages:
    345
    State:
    Georgia
    I ran some dukes last season. I used the 1 1/2 for coon, and the 1 3/4 offset, laminated, for cat & coyote. They are what they are, a cheap trap, and it shows. A big problem I found on the 1 3/4 is the pan is slightly too large for the inside diameter of the trap, which will prevent it from closing completely sometimes. You will sometimes come back to a slightly torn up catch circle, no animal, and the jaws open slightly. If I make a catch, I want him there when I get there, not running around wiser for the experience. If anyone has some of these, you better check the pan clearance with the jaws. I don't know if Duke has fixed this problem or not. I took mine up, and went back to my Victors. For the price, a Victor, properly modified, and tuned, is hard to beat for my kind of trapping with footholds. If we were allowed a larger jaw spread on land, and theft wasn't an issue, I would go with something like a MB trap, sterling or similar. Do you use relaxing snares? I would try to get a special permit to use non-lethal relaxing snares for this job, and swivel it well. Demonstrate the concept to those you are trying to get your permit from. If no luck then use what you have to. Good luck, Jack.
     
  12. warcraft1975

    warcraft1975 New Member

    Messages:
    1,190
    the only duke trap that i will ever talk good about is the new profile number three, i really like this trap it does what it supposed to do and seems pretty well made,as for the rest... well...might make a good set line weight or something
     
  13. Dnedster

    Dnedster New Member

    Messages:
    122
    State:
    Wisconsin
    Get yourself a 220 conbier trap of death
     
  14. sds888

    sds888 New Member

    Messages:
    378
    State:
    Townville, South Carolina
    As for the duke traps Like I said I have never had a problem with them so I cant say anything bad about them. I do not use longspring traps only coilspring but if I decide to buy any #11's I will keep that in mind. Never had a problem with the pan but thanks for the tip I will look out for that. I did try to explain to him about the snares but he was acting like he had used them for years and I didnt want to step on his toes to hard. lol. The conibear in this state can not be placed any where outside of a water set where it has to be half submerged. South Carolina really limits you to what resoures you can use. But thats where I live so have to go with what they say. They do let you use snares in water sets also where it is half submerged but not on land unless you can obtain a depredation permit for it. Which is very hard. All they want you to use is havaharts and foot-leg holds.
    Stephen
     
  15. fishhook

    fishhook New Member

    Messages:
    658
    State:
    Willow Woo
    I tried those Duke traps when they first came out and had a few come apart so I scraped the rest. I agree with Georgiajack about the relaxing snare. I snare here in Ohio and I think that if you show those office people how it works and that it will not hurt a pet and also let them know that mangey fox is more of a threat to those pets then your snare, maybe they'll reconsitter.
     
  16. fishhook

    fishhook New Member

    Messages:
    658
    State:
    Willow Woo
    I forgot to mention that I also agree with 223smitty about referring to traps as leg hold, they are foot hold and a few years ago Friends of Animals aired a video using a pencil in a 1.75 double coil spring trap to show how easy a leg can be broken with those nasty traps. That same year in Maryland they also used a vet to remove a coons rear leg to use in a video showing the damage leg hold traps do. At the time I was the Public Relations officer for the Maryland Furtakers and addressed both of those issues and not too kindly I might add.
     
  17. Georgiajack

    Georgiajack New Member

    Messages:
    345
    State:
    Georgia
    I had a similar problem trapping damage control for beaver. Urban sprawl had made it's way to the banks of the lake, and little creek that fed it. Pets were a big consideration, and narrowed my options. I didn't dare use a foothold near a scented castor mound, or any kind of lure. I ended up using conibears submerged in channels, and relaxing snares on cross overs, and slides. I had to show each landowner what I was using, and ended up educating them about the methods. They were afraid that the beaver would burrow into the dam, and weaken to to the point of breaking one day. There was also tree damage. The fact is this, with footholds, there is always a indention in the critters foot to some degree. Now, you, and I know that if you used the correct equipment, properly modified, this is only temporary, a day or so it's gone, and a little massage to get the blood circulating again speeds things along. However, some folks look at it like it is a permanant damage, and to them that is a whole lot worse that getting bit by a sick fox. Just one of the problems of ADC work professionals face. If they can't let a pro work, leave the fox to bite their a$$. JMHO. Jack.
     
  18. sds888

    sds888 New Member

    Messages:
    378
    State:
    Townville, South Carolina
    All I have to say is amen to that.
     
  19. cuttingout69

    cuttingout69 New Member

    Messages:
    1,349
    State:
    Louisiana
    Stephen, what really matters is if you get ride of the fox or not. If you do take the job, let us know how you got him. Some use line mans wrench, other us a adjustable wrench, and some call it a Cresant Wrench. They both finish the job with the same results. I can think of some many places where I can put a snare, foot hold, and coni in the same set, which is easier and on target?

    Good discussion by all, and I am glad to see so many of you putting your thoughts and ideas out here. You know we are a different breed, those who trap. Every trapper has his own thoughts and ideas and most will not share info. I don't know that you become a trapper, or trapping becomes you. How dose the saying go? "If I have to explain it, you would not understand it." There is a passion for it, and longing to out smart the beast, and feel the fur. Making pelts that will some day be worn by some one. I hope we can expand this thread and keep the interest up here. Good job to all.
     
  20. 223Smitty

    223Smitty New Member

    Messages:
    478
    State:
    Indiana
    Jack & John both mentioned something which is one of trappings biggest "problems", public perception. The ARA's are the ones who use dishonesty & "scare-tactics", much like those John mentioned inorder to get others to think like them. Anytime you can educate a non-trapper, you're doing the sport a huge favor because the truth of the matter is quite opposite of how it is portrayed by the antis.

    The NTA had produced a video called "Destroying the Myth" (there's a second one coming-out, if it hasn't already), and it does just that. It shows many animals being released from footholds, as if they'd never been caught. I'd highly suggest watching either of them if you have the chance. I was going to post a link to the NTA site, because they have the DTM video there to be viewed, but when I click on the link, it just takes me back to the Homepage.

    Well, here it is anyway, maybe it'll work for someone else, look on the left-hand side of the page:
    http://www.nationaltrappers.com/

    I'll extend a personal "thank-you" to those who support our rights as trappers, whether you trap yourself or not.

    This country was founded on God, guns & traps, and it seems as though there are alot of people out there who would choose to forget that, and remove them all from society, and to a certain extent they have. Many "freedoms" we had were more a necessity of survival, now they are in peril of being lost, like many others.

    I see all the time about so many ethnic backrounds being proud of their heritage, well, I'm American, but it seems my heritage can be easily left in the dust, from where it arose. I trap because my ancestors before me did, I trap because of my love of the outdoors, I trap because for alittle while, when I'm standing in the middle of nowhere, where there's no houses, no buildings, parkinglots, sidewalks, or traffic, it's just me & my traps, and for just a few minutes.....I can go back 200 years to how it used to be......and I'd give anything to have lived then instead of now.

    The 3 things I mentioned above (God, guns, & traps) kept this country alive & thriving for centuries, now it seems many have little use for any of them.

    Smitty