Fishing non-navigable water?

Discussion in 'LOCAL INDIANA TALK' started by quackingtim, Jun 18, 2007.

  1. quackingtim

    quackingtim New Member

    Messages:
    90
    State:
    indiana
    If your fishing one of these here in Indiana, and you come across a shallow spot that you have to get out and drag your canoe to a deeper spot, are you trespassing? The law says "IC 14-29-8-2(b) The right of a person to use a recreational stream is limited to the water within the stream and does not do the following:
    (1) Authorize the use of the bed or bank of the stream, except in an emergency."

    I guess I could just wait for the water to rise and float the canoe but that may take weeks or months. So was I trespassing or not?
     
  2. flathead20000

    flathead20000 New Member

    Messages:
    137
    State:
    Indiana, Delphi
    I have actually ran into this situation before. We were tubing on the wildcat creek, and the water got down to a couple of inches. We got out and started dragging the tubes. In the process of doing this, and some playful splashing of one another, a guy came out of nowhere with a cordless phone telling us we were trespassing on his ground and he was going to call the police. I told him he was nuts, and there was no way he owned the river. He explained to me that the ground under the water was his property, and as long as we stayed in the canoe or tube were fine, but since we were walking and physically standing on the ground, he once again threatened to call the police. I responded to that by telling him to please call the police because if what your telling me is true, they can come here and arrest my wading shoes, and I will get back on my tube and wait for higher water, because they are the only thing physically touching your land. Got him good!!!!!!!!!!!! Really though, in some situations you can be trespassing, but as long as your just passing through to deeper water I can't see people going nuts. Jerks like the guy I ran into are just rediculous. I would hope that more people would be more forgiving of that law!
     

  3. thenightstalker

    thenightstalker New Member

    Messages:
    105
    State:
    indiana
    river bed is river bed not private property. lets put it this way. if people owned land under water, and there were two different [roperty owners on each side, where is the line? just think aobut lakes and what a mess that would be i like michigans keep ur feet wet law. if ur on the river or creek bed to hell with the surrounding property owners. river bed and creek bed is STATE property any c o should not bother you aslong as you came from a public area or a private area with permission. indiana really needs to look into this law. also i have paperwork on making a non navigatable waterway navigatable. it takes 26 signatures and it cannot be block by asnyone as far as i know. ill dig that up and post my info tomorrow
     
  4. quackingtim

    quackingtim New Member

    Messages:
    90
    State:
    indiana
    Got my answer. If the water has been claimed as navigable you can wade or anything else. If not, the land owner does own the river bed, and the property line would be the middle of the creek or river. You are lucky that the guy came out w/a phone. The guys that came after me were dressed in camo and had guns. They were giving hand signals back and forth, and wanted my name, address, and social securty #. I gave them a fake name and #'s. These guys were nuts. I did talk to law enforcement about it so hopefully no one else has to through that. Anyway, here is the link. http://http://www.in.gov/legislative/register/20061011-IR-312060440NRA.xml.pdf
     
  5. quackingtim

    quackingtim New Member

    Messages:
    90
    State:
    indiana
    If you could find that info I would really like it. I found one heck of a smallie area. I'm sure it's because everyone is scared to fish it.
     
  6. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    This is a good easy to follow read regarding NC laws on stream and river ownership.
    You'll find most states are the same with small differences maybe.
    http://www.bae.ncsu.edu/programs/extension/publicat/arep/waterlaw.html

    In my reading only the state can change a stream or river to navigable status. A piece of paper wont do it. States have legislative bodies that make those decisions.

    Our laws here are pretty darn clear. Just because the river is there and the water and fish are state owned doesnt give you the right to trespass to access it.
     
  7. thenightstalker

    thenightstalker New Member

    Messages:
    105
    State:
    indiana
    this information should be useful. gather up your friends and butter up your county commisioner. dont forget county commisioners are ELECTED officials. if they try to hassle you a bit, remind them they are elected by the people, for the people. i believe next year is an election year and all the help they give you could help them be reelected.



    IC 14-29-1-1
    Petition
    Sec. 1. The board of county commissioners of each county may declare any stream or watercourse in the county navigable on the petition of at least twenty-four (24) freeholders of the county residing in the vicinity of the stream.
    As added by P.L.1-1995, SEC.22.


    freeholders= county residing taxpayers

    there is more information @ www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title14/ar29/ch1.html
     
  8. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    Who is going to pay the riparian land owner for the land he owns under the stream or river that he has been paying taxes on?
    Not only does he lose the land he loses any oil, water, and mineral rights.
    Every deed along the that stretch of river will have to be resurveyed and deeded. Who pays for that? The land owners that just had their land swiped?

    Sorry but I am opposed to the taking of privately owned properties much less without fair compensation.
    Afterall it might be some bird freak that wants my spot on this earth next week for a woodpecker bird preserve. What goes around usually comes around but hits harder.

    Lets face it. 99% of the riparary landowners out there are going to respect you as much as you respect them. Pick your tube or canoe up and walk to the next pool.
    Most people do enjoy the sanctity of their weekends which means no lingering around, no whooping and hollering, or acting beligerent while you gently tread on their property.
    There is that 1 or 2% you'll have to learn to deal with and communicate with without a mass government land grab.
     
  9. treddinwater

    treddinwater Active Member

    Messages:
    1,123
    State:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    I'm with Mark. During my lifetime my dad and I have done a lot of smallmouth fishing on small creeks in which it's almost impossible, whether in a boat or wading to not get out and go around stuff from time to time. As long as you are not disrupting the property or owners and move off the property as quickly as possible, you should be fine.
     
  10. thenightstalker

    thenightstalker New Member

    Messages:
    105
    State:
    indiana
    the people living on the water was would not lose their water rights. as for mineral and oil rights, it would be near impossible to get the permits required to drill for oil or create a gravel pit or strip mine for coal. you cannot block or redirect water the STATES
     
  11. thenightstalker

    thenightstalker New Member

    Messages:
    105
    State:
    indiana
    continued from prior post. you cannot block or redirect water the state owns. the army corp of engineers are the ones that decide that. it would have to be a damn good reason to redirect that water. down with oil and pro ethanol anyway. bio fuels. no more oil that killls thousands of fish and wildlife annually. there are plenty of farmers that get irrigation water from the tippecanoe river. and i know that they do not own that river bed. im not por emminant domain. im pro public. that land would not be making the state money. it would be used fro public recreation. ask around. there are many people fed up with the private land owners and there restrictive bologna. ive been hassled on the tippecanore river while in a boat. ive been harrassed on lakes in a boat. the people are starting to get rediculous. oh by the way, alot of people are all crappy because there are people out using the water right and witnessing them keeping over their limits and keeping smaller fish than they are supposed to keep.

    "AND THE SIGN SAID ANYBODY CAUGHT TRESPASSING WOULD BE SHOT ON SIGHT SO I JUMPED THE FENCE AND YELLED AT THE HOUSE WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT. TO PUT UP A FENCE TO KEEP ME OUT OR TO KEEP MOTHER NATURE IN. IF GOD WAS HERE HED TELL YOU TO YOUR FACE MAN YOUR SOME KIND OF SINNER"
     
  12. quackingtim

    quackingtim New Member

    Messages:
    90
    State:
    indiana
    Nightstalker, That is what I was looking for. Thanks.

    Mark J, I'm a land owner in South Carolina, on Lake Hartwell. The way these two states deals with their streams is very different, but it's getting better here. As of a few years ago there was no such thing as a navigal waterway here. The land owners were free to what ever they wanted and it was scary what they were doing.
     
  13. Mark J

    Mark J New Member

    Messages:
    9,407
    State:
    Four Oaks, NC
    How would they not lose water right?
    living next to water doesnt automatically give you rights to what is on somebody else's land.

    That water flowing over your land is what gives you the water rights.

    Just because your arm is long enough to reach over the fence and pick the peaches off my tree doesn't give you a right to my peaches.:lol:

    This is a nasty can of worms begging to be opened.
    What next? My pond because a group of have nots want to fish in it?

    Thats all the government wants is the citizens doing their dirty work for them then they arent to blame.
     
  14. AwShucks

    AwShucks New Member

    Messages:
    4,532
    State:
    Guthrie, Oklaho
    If I remember right, a great big can of worms is about to be opened.

    A federal judge, I believe in Louisiana, ruled that the land owners on either side of the Mississippi River owned the rights to the river and if you were fishing it, or just passing through, you were trespassing. There is an appeal to this ruling in process, but from what reading have done, the appellant will probably loose his case.

    This past year, I believe the Oklahoma Legislature passed laws stating that a landowner's rights were to not be denied. It used to be if a land owner did not want other citizens coming on his land, hunting the creek, fishing the river or pond, he had to post his land with visible signs every 100 feet. Under the new law, land does not have to be posted, but if you don't have the land owners permission, you are trespassing. That means no hunting or fishing on most private lands in Oklahoma unless you know the guy real good or are related. I don't know how it will effect the Arkansas and other rivers... but I bet we find out in the next few years.

    And if you think these land owners don't know their rights, let me tell you, they are not country bumpkins. It will get real expensive real quick.
     
  15. Wooly

    Wooly New Member

    Messages:
    134
    State:
    Illinois
    Yes, Mark this is a nasty can of worms. I disagree with you ( thank God we can disagree in America! ) what flows across anyones land belongs to the people plain and simple. If I step out of my onto your dry land I am trespassing. If I step out into the water and drag my boat or if I just wade to the next pool to see if I can catch a new a new personal best I am on the American peoples land which is yours, mine, or that worthless piece of crap down the road that doesn't give a damn about right and wrong!

    Oh yeah here in Illinois, If I accept the gov's help building a pond the public can walk across my front yard to fish!

    Just my 2 cents worth.
    Wooly
     
  16. thenightstalker

    thenightstalker New Member

    Messages:
    105
    State:
    indiana
    i like woolys saying. its the american peoples water. i just think too many people are over stepping their bounds keeping everything locked up. isnt it taxpayes money that goes into taking care of that water that goes over their land?
     
  17. thenightstalker

    thenightstalker New Member

    Messages:
    105
    State:
    indiana
  18. river scum

    river scum New Member

    Messages:
    3,474
    State:
    hooterville indiana
    i havent had trouble on small creeks( yet! )lol i did have a confrontation with a land owner on a navegable river though. since i didnt know the law i left,that and he was armed and i was not. now i know better and am going back sometime soon,and ill have more than tackle this time too. lol it really floors me on how some people can be such *&^ $^^&* about things like this. if its a trouble spot, aka party spot, i could see it. not just people having fun though.



    thanks for the links zach.
     
  19. quackingtim

    quackingtim New Member

    Messages:
    90
    State:
    indiana
    Here in Indiana on a non-navigal waterway, the land owner owns the river bed, but not the water. Navigal water is owned by the public. I have land in Warren County w/the beautiful Red Wood Ceek running through it. It is non-navigal. I think it is great when I see somebody fishing and haveing a good time on it. Now the ones that bring there ATV's and tear up my hillside is a different story. Never had a problem sharing the water. Now the pond thing is a different story because it is surrounded by private land. Totally different then free flowing water.
     
  20. thenightstalker

    thenightstalker New Member

    Messages:
    105
    State:
    indiana
    atvs in my opinion should not be used in creeks. they tear up the bed where wildlife can lay eggs and eat. arent they passing a law about that? what ever happened to common sense? i hate all the laws. i reallyreally do people should just use their heads